Monkey experiment

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Where does this information fit with communist theory?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...eyfairness.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0917_030917_monkeyfairness.html)

To me there are these lessons learned for communism and capitalism:

1) Communist type cooperation is possible in humans. Things must be equal.

2) Slackers, less tallented, or less productive will not be tollerated in a communist system. By default they are not tollerated in capitalism.

3) People getting shafted won't fly in capitalism the same for communism.

[redstar2000]

Slackers, less talented, or less productive will not be tolerated in a communist system. By default they are not tolerated in capitalism.

No, that does not follow from the otherwise interesting study you cited.

The monkeys who got shafted were not "less talented" or "less productive".

And they did not attack the recipients of the grape; they attacked the human "bosses"...the source of the inequities.

Nor is your assumption that "only" the "productive and talented" are rewarded by capitalism empirically valid...many productive and talented people get shafted by capitalism and many sons and daughters (or more distant descendants) of capitalism's lucky winners live a life free of financial insecurity without talent or productivity of any kind.

This whole "image" of capitalism as a "neutral meritocracy" in which "the best man wins" is demonstrably false.

Sometimes, the "best man wins"...but very often that is not the case at all.

As Engels correctly pointed out back in 1844 -- the laws of capitalism are the laws of chance.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 01:33 PM

Slackers, less talented, or less productive will not be tolerated in a communist system. By default they are not tolerated in capitalism.

No, that does not follow from the otherwise interesting study you cited.

The monkeys who got shafted were not "less talented" or "less productive".

And they did not attack the recipients of the grape; they attacked the human "bosses"...the source of the inequities.

Nor is your assumption that "only" the "productive and talented" are rewarded by capitalism empirically valid...many productive and talented people get shafted by capitalism and many sons and daughters (or more distant descendants) of capitalism's lucky winners live a life free of financial insecurity without talent or productivity of any kind.

This whole "image" of capitalism as a "neutral meritocracy" in which "the best man wins" is demonstrably false.

Sometimes, the "best man wins"...but very often that is not the case at all.

As Engels correctly pointed out back in 1844 -- the laws of capitalism are the laws of chance.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.

Do you think people who produce more and do better work are going to expect more rewards too?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Sure, they may expect better rewards... but it doesn't necessarily follow that capitalism will provide them with what they deserve.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort
Do you think people who produce more and do better work are going to expect more rewards too?

That question was not addressed in the study you cited.

And it's difficult to see how it could be...but then I am not an experimental scientist and such a study may turn out to be possible.

In capitalist society, the matter of who "produces more" and who does "better work" is an arbitrary judgment much more often than not.

The New York Yankees, for example, have the highest payroll in baseball...and nearly the worst record in the American League.

Or consider the preachers at those Christian fascist "mega-churches" (the churches are designed like small sports arenas, seating several thousand "worshipers"). Are they "more productive"? Do they do "better work"?

They are social parasites and every dime they extort from their herds of suckers is theft.

Or compare Linus Tovald to Bill Gates: does anyone have any doubt as to who is "more productive" and does "better work"?

Then, of course, there is the matter of "rewards" themselves and what form they might take? Ask any visionary scientist which s/he'd rather have...a billion dollars or a Nobel Prize?

Or, to return to my baseball example, a billion dollars or a "hall of fame" career?

Even a rich bastard like Nelson Rockefeller wanted, more than anything else, to be President of the United States and spent a fortune trying to get his sorry ass "into the history books".

Yes, I think people who are "more productive" and "do better work" probably do expect "greater rewards"...in status and prestige. The money is just the way those things happened to be measured in class society (and measured very badly at that).

You might like the idea of having Donald Trump's money...but would you really want his reputation? :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 10:29 PM
Sure, they may expect better rewards... but it doesn't necessarily follow that capitalism will provide them with what they deserve.
Whatever capitalism does or fails to do, it is not a proof that communism is right or will work. Do you agree?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by redstar2000+May 7 2005, 11:44 PM--> (redstar2000 @ May 7 2005, 11:44 PM)
ahhh_money_is_comfort
Do you think people who produce more and do better work are going to expect more rewards too?

That question was not addressed in the study you cited.

And it's difficult to see how it could be...but then I am not an experimental scientist and such a study may turn out to be possible.

In capitalist society, the matter of who "produces more" and who does "better work" is an arbitrary judgment much more often than not.

The New York Yankees, for example, have the highest payroll in baseball...and nearly the worst record in the American League.

Or consider the preachers at those Christian fascist "mega-churches" (the churches are designed like small sports arenas, seating several thousand "worshipers"). Are they "more productive"? Do they do "better work"?

They are social parasites and every dime they extort from their herds of suckers is theft.

Or compare Linus Tovald to Bill Gates: does anyone have any doubt as to who is "more productive" and does "better work"?

Then, of course, there is the matter of "rewards" themselves and what form they might take? Ask any visionary scientist which s/he'd rather have...a billion dollars or a Nobel Prize?

Or, to return to my baseball example, a billion dollars or a "hall of fame" career?

Even a rich bastard like Nelson Rockefeller wanted, more than anything else, to be President of the United States and spent a fortune trying to get his sorry ass "into the history books".

Yes, I think people who are "more productive" and "do better work" probably do expect "greater rewards"...in status and prestige. The money is just the way those things happened to be measured in class society (and measured very badly at that).

You might like the idea of having Donald Trump's money...but would you really want his reputation? :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
Just asking a question. Yes your right it does not address any natural behaviors in humans. The only thing that this experiment would suggest is that humans also have a similiar sense of just reward.

But........


Not an experimantalist? You seem to accept so much of communist thoery regarding human behavior. Hmmmm.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.

How many people would take the money found in their sofa and buy a homeless man a cup of coffee?

No? Most people would go down to the gas station and buy themselves a pop.

Amplify this by whole countries and think of what you get? The first world's bladder is bursting, while the third world can't seem to stay awake (I'm talking about the people of the countries, not the states or districts themselves!).

Within any given country the same is true.

If humans had a sense of fair rewards, then
1. Why would we need money?
2. We wouldn't be playing greedy little games like "Monopoly" (I love that game! I'm the boot!) Think of wolves. . .children play their games how they live their lives (like play-fighting in doggies)
3. Communism in some form or another would come natural.
But it dosen't (those selfish people on the top would rather it didn't)

Let's go back to Monopoly again, shall we? Classic capitolistic simulation of a game. What's most important in the game? Unless you're playing against a cheater or an idiot, it's typical to be decided by the throw of the dice (damn! I just hit "Park Place" with four houses! If only you landed on my "Marvin Gardens" with the hotel first)

(I kinda hope this made sense. . .I'm winging it from mind and I haven't slept since the night before last. . .uf-dah!)

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by krazyrabidsheep+May 8 2005, 03:44 AM--> (krazyrabidsheep @ May 8 2005, 03:44 AM)
[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.

How many people would take the money found in their sofa and buy a homeless man a cup of coffee?

No? Most people would go down to the gas station and buy themselves a pop.

Amplify this by whole countries and think of what you get? The first world's bladder is bursting, while the third world can't seem to stay awake (I'm talking about the people of the countries, not the states or districts themselves!).

Within any given country the same is true.

If humans had a sense of fair rewards, then
1. Why would we need money?
2. We wouldn't be playing greedy little games like "Monopoly" (I love that game! I'm the boot!) Think of wolves. . .children play their games how they live their lives (like play-fighting in doggies)
3. Communism in some form or another would come natural.
But it dosen't (those selfish people on the top would rather it didn't)

Let's go back to Monopoly again, shall we? Classic capitolistic simulation of a game. What's most important in the game? Unless you're playing against a cheater or an idiot, it's typical to be decided by the throw of the dice (damn! I just hit "Park Place" with four houses! If only you landed on my "Marvin Gardens" with the hotel first)

(I kinda hope this made sense. . .I'm winging it from mind and I haven't slept since the night before last. . .uf-dah!) [/b]
I have a better opinion of humans. I'm more apt to believe were like monkies deep down inside, capable of cooperation, like in the study quoted above.

If you are right, then communism is doomed to fail, eh?

[encephalon]

If you are right, then communism is doomed to fail, eh?

That's the first statement you've ever made that I've ever agreed with, I believe :D

Humans are not selfish by nature. Self-interest is not selfishness; the former is necessary to continue living, the latter involves forsaking all other beings. If humans were selfish by nature, we'd be hellishly worse off than we are even now. On the contrary: humans are cooperative by nature. It's cooperation, communication and interaction that has moved history, not isolation. Without that very basic premise--that humans are cooperative rather than selfish--the world makes very little sense, let alone communism.

[bed_of_nails]

If I have to admit one good thing about "ahhh_money_is_comfort" it would be that the opening of his mouth makes me laugh.


Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.

Please dont tell me that Actors have a horribly hard job. We go back to the point of education does not equal salary... Look at the worlds leading scientists; they only get a decent amount of money when they win some sort of award.


I have a better opinion of humans. I'm more apt to believe were like monkies deep down inside, capable of cooperation, like in the study quoted above.

Like how we all work together to kill eachother basically. You act as if you are some sort of 'Nam veteran that thinks he is tough shit, so you should have some experience being on both ends of this.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 08:07 AM
If I have to admit one good thing about "ahhh_money_is_comfort" it would be that the opening of his mouth makes me laugh.


Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.

Please dont tell me that Actors have a horribly hard job. We go back to the point of education does not equal salary... Look at the worlds leading scientists; they only get a decent amount of money when they win some sort of award.


I have a better opinion of humans. I'm more apt to believe were like monkies deep down inside, capable of cooperation, like in the study quoted above.

Like how we all work together to kill eachother basically. You act as if you are some sort of 'Nam veteran that thinks he is tough shit, so you should have some experience being on both ends of this.
Why are you so worried about money?

Will you have the same attitude about, let say art critics. A Phd? Should they make more money than a computer engineer with a BS? I don't have a problem with poor educated people. Hey they were smart enough to know that if they are persuing a useless education that pays lousy then they are probably smart enough to know what they are getting into. You know your 'dumb' engineer probably makes 2X to 2.5 more than that art critic. I don't have a problem with that, why should you?

[bed_of_nails]

Because I am tired of your bullshit arguments that people who are poor want to be so.

Nobody wants to be poor and hungry, but people still want to do things they love. Your arguments are saying that you dont mind if people are poor, hungry and cold. You dont care unless it is you.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 05:22 PM
Because I am tired of your bullshit arguments that people who are poor want to be so.

Nobody wants to be poor and hungry, but people still want to do things they love. Your arguments are saying that you dont mind if people are poor, hungry and cold. You dont care unless it is you.
I dare you to show me the text where I believe that.

[bed_of_nails]

You know your 'dumb' engineer probably makes 2X to 2.5 more than that art critic. I don't have a problem with that, why should you?

Let me help you out with something. I am guessing some 'Nam shrapnel to the head has ruined your reasoning.

People who dont have money in a capitalist society often go hungry, and are concidered poor.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 07:02 PM

You know your 'dumb' engineer probably makes 2X to 2.5 more than that art critic. I don't have a problem with that, why should you?

Let me help you out with something. I am guessing some 'Nam shrapnel to the head has ruined your reasoning.

People who dont have money in a capitalist society often go hungry, and are concidered poor.
Oh I get that. Yes your right.

Now I dare you to find that text where I say or believe something to the effect of the poor wanting to be poor.

[Yazman]

Monkeys are not humans and drawing a comparison between the two is ignorant.

Apples and oranges.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 07:07 AM
Monkeys are not humans and drawing a comparison between the two is ignorant.

Apples and oranges.
Read the link to the National Geographic in the first post.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by krazyrabidsheep+May 8 2005, 03:44 AM--> (krazyrabidsheep @ May 8 2005, 03:44 AM)
[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.

[/b]
The irony of this is that you probably hang out most with fellow communists.

[Forward Union]

I dare you to show me the text where I believe that.

I believe you said


I don't have a problem with that, why should you?

and I presume you would care if you lived in poverty... so...he was right to make that accusation.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Anarcho [email protected] 9 2005, 08:26 PM

I dare you to show me the text where I believe that.

I believe you said


I don't have a problem with that, why should you?

and I presume you would care if you lived in poverty... so...he was right to make that accusation.
What were the dates and what was the rest of the text? I don't know what I'm saying there. It could be about anything.

[LSD]

What were the dates and what was the rest of the text? I don't know what I'm saying there. It could be about anything.

*cough*


Originally posted by [email protected] May 8 2005, 5:25 PM
I don't have a problem with poor educated people. Hey they were smart enough to know that if they are persuing a useless education that pays lousy then they are probably smart enough to know what they are getting into.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid Diethylamide+May 10 2005, 01:47 AM--> (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide @ May 10 2005, 01:47 AM)
What were the dates and what was the rest of the text? I don't know what I'm saying there. It could be about anything.

*cough*


[email protected] May 8 2005, 5:25 PM
I don't have a problem with poor educated people. Hey they were smart enough to know that if they are persuing a useless education that pays lousy then they are probably smart enough to know what they are getting into. [/b]
I dared you at 5:22 PM. That text is from 5:25.

Did you find anything prior to 5:22? Do you see your problem here?

Plus I'm talking about EDUCATED poor who made a consious decision to be poor. Don't forget these EDUCATED purposely CHOOSE TO BE POOR. They choose a major on purpose they knew when the completed thier study they were going to be poor. They knew that thier field of study was going to pay squat and still did it.

That is not what YOU and I are talking about here.

BTW I'm now LAUGHING AT YOU.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+May 9 2005, 11:28 AM--> (t_wolves_fan @ May 9 2005, 11:28 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 03:44 AM

[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.


The irony of this is that you probably hang out most with fellow communists. [/b]
I have only ever met, face to face, one self-proclaimed commuinist, who I have not seen since I was in his class over two years ago.

Proves you wrong, doesn't it?

I do not "hang out" with commies, cappies, lefties, or righties.
I "hang out" with people I like, good people that I enjoy the company of.
Some of these people are poor, some are rich, some are white, some are minority, some are conservative, some are liberal.
Political stance has nothing to do with the charecter of a person

I am NOT a communist, and I am fucking tired of saying so.
I am myself, and while my opinions and political stance overlaps with other people, and even political ideologies, I belong to none. There are also ideologies I am dead against. I am a party of one

Amazing how some people on RL are willing to accept that. Amazing how none of them are you.

You see the world as black and white, don't you?
Good and bad.
Left and right.
Us and them.

You have no idea who I am, and you have no interest, do you?

Do you?

You just decided "this bloke isn't a restricted member, so he must be bad. I'm going to personaly attack him and see how I can piss him off", didn't you?

I respect some of the right-wingests on this site, they try to form intelligent arguments, they voice their opinions (from what I have seen, ahhh_money_is_comfort is one of them).
They are willing to put up with a site dominated by lefties to offer informed debate. Some of them even try to understand where the lefties are coming from (they may not agree, but they comprehend).
Even the best of us may throw a random insult out of frustration at another non-deserving person, but it is backed up with pages and pages of responsible, intelligent debate.
These peope are better then you, and better then many lefties on this site.
If I were to met them in real life, I think we could become fast friends.

You, sir, are not one of them.

You have no right on this site if you have nothing more to offer then whines and insults.


"If you start throwing hedgehogs under me, I shall throw a couple of porcupines under you."

You are on this site not for intelligent debate, but to attack the members.
If you have nothing to do but piss off people who are nothing but pixels on the screen to you, you must be a boring person with little to do. Or a sad person who shows sociopathic tendencies.

I, on the other hand, have a life.
I have other things to do.

Because I have things I can do, and because I have a choice, and because I can, right now I am going to turn my computer off,
I am packing up my books and laptop,
I am going out the door,
I am walking to the bus stop,
I am going to my girlfriend's (fiance, in fact) and my apartment,
And I am going to fuck her good.

Some of us with lives do things like that.
I doubt you do.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by krazyrabidsheep+May 10 2005, 04:40 AM--> (krazyrabidsheep @ May 10 2005, 04:40 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 03:44 AM

[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.


The irony of this is that you probably hang out most with fellow communists.
I have only ever met, face to face, one self-proclaimed commuinist, who I have not seen since I was in his class over two years ago.

Proves you wrong, doesn't it?

I do not "hang out" with commies, cappies, lefties, or righties.
I "hang out" with people I like, good people that I enjoy the company of.
Some of these people are poor, some are rich, some are white, some are minority, some are conservative, some are liberal.
Political stance has nothing to do with the charecter of a person

I am NOT a communist, and I am fucking tired of saying so.
I am myself, and while my opinions and political stance overlaps with other people, and even political ideologies, I belong to none. There are also ideologies I am dead against. I am a party of one

Amazing how some people on RL are willing to accept that. Amazing how none of them are you.

You see the world as black and white, don't you?
Good and bad.
Left and right.
Us and them.

You have no idea who I am, and you have no interest, do you?

Do you?

You just decided "this bloke isn't a restricted member, so he must be bad. I'm going to personaly attack him and see how I can piss him off", didn't you?

I respect some of the right-wingests on this site, they try to form intelligent arguments, they voice their opinions (from what I have seen, ahhh_money_is_comfort is one of them).
They are willing to put up with a site dominated by lefties to offer informed debate. Some of them even try to understand where the lefties are coming from (they may not agree, but they comprehend).
Even the best of us may throw a random insult out of frustration at another non-deserving person, but it is backed up with pages and pages of responsible, intelligent debate.
These peope are better then you, and better then many lefties on this site.
If I were to met them in real life, I think we could become fast friends.

You, sir, are not one of them.

You have no right on this site if you have nothing more to offer then whines and insults.


"If you start throwing hedgehogs under me, I shall throw a couple of porcupines under you."

You are on this site not for intelligent debate, but to attack the members.
If you have nothing to do but piss off people who are nothing but pixels on the screen to you, you must be a boring person with little to do. Or a sad person who shows sociopathic tendencies.

I, on the other hand, have a life.
I have other things to do.

Because I have things I can do, and because I have a choice, and because I can, right now I am going to turn my computer off,
I am packing up my books and laptop,
I am going out the door,
I am walking to the bus stop,
I am going to my girlfriend's (fiance, in fact) and my apartment,
And I am going to fuck her good.

Some of us with lives do things like that.
I doubt you do. [/b]
If I offended then I apologize.

But I have to say, it always amuses me when people make long posts telling another poster that they don't care about and have no time for them.

It's interesting you complain that I see things in black and white, since had you read any of my previous posts you'd notice I'm very much opposed to radicals on both the left and the right. If anyone sees things as black and white, it's the radical leftists on this board (rich = bad, poor = good, capitalism = bad, etc.).

Hell, if you're sick of the two parties and consider yourself a centrist, then we probably have more in common than we do not.

Again, sorry for the assumption.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by krazyrabidsheep+May 10 2005, 04:40 AM--> (krazyrabidsheep @ May 10 2005, 04:40 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 03:44 AM

[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.


The irony of this is that you probably hang out most with fellow communists.
I have only ever met, face to face, one self-proclaimed commuinist, who I have not seen since I was in his class over two years ago.

Proves you wrong, doesn't it?

I do not "hang out" with commies, cappies, lefties, or righties.
I "hang out" with people I like, good people that I enjoy the company of.
Some of these people are poor, some are rich, some are white, some are minority, some are conservative, some are liberal.
Political stance has nothing to do with the charecter of a person

I am NOT a communist, and I am fucking tired of saying so.
I am myself, and while my opinions and political stance overlaps with other people, and even political ideologies, I belong to none. There are also ideologies I am dead against. I am a party of one

Amazing how some people on RL are willing to accept that. Amazing how none of them are you.

You see the world as black and white, don't you?
Good and bad.
Left and right.
Us and them.

You have no idea who I am, and you have no interest, do you?

Do you?

You just decided "this bloke isn't a restricted member, so he must be bad. I'm going to personaly attack him and see how I can piss him off", didn't you?

I respect some of the right-wingests on this site, they try to form intelligent arguments, they voice their opinions (from what I have seen, ahhh_money_is_comfort is one of them).
They are willing to put up with a site dominated by lefties to offer informed debate. Some of them even try to understand where the lefties are coming from (they may not agree, but they comprehend).
Even the best of us may throw a random insult out of frustration at another non-deserving person, but it is backed up with pages and pages of responsible, intelligent debate.
These peope are better then you, and better then many lefties on this site.
If I were to met them in real life, I think we could become fast friends.

You, sir, are not one of them.

You have no right on this site if you have nothing more to offer then whines and insults.


"If you start throwing hedgehogs under me, I shall throw a couple of porcupines under you."

You are on this site not for intelligent debate, but to attack the members.
If you have nothing to do but piss off people who are nothing but pixels on the screen to you, you must be a boring person with little to do. Or a sad person who shows sociopathic tendencies.

I, on the other hand, have a life.
I have other things to do.

Because I have things I can do, and because I have a choice, and because I can, right now I am going to turn my computer off,
I am packing up my books and laptop,
I am going out the door,
I am walking to the bus stop,
I am going to my girlfriend's (fiance, in fact) and my apartment,
And I am going to fuck her good.

Some of us with lives do things like that.
I doubt you do. [/b]
I'm boring. I admit it. I got lots of time on my hands. I have a six figure job with lots of down time, but I have to be responsive 24/7. Which allows me time to post here.

Political stance has everything to do with a person when the are willing to use violence, treason, and evil to get what they want.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+May 10 2005, 11:51 AM--> (t_wolves_fan @ May 10 2005, 11:51 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 03:44 AM

[email protected] 7 2005, 03:07 PM
Monkies have an natural sense of fair rewards for effort. I suspect humans have it too.
None of the people I know.

Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.


The irony of this is that you probably hang out most with fellow communists.
I have only ever met, face to face, one self-proclaimed commuinist, who I have not seen since I was in his class over two years ago.

Proves you wrong, doesn't it?

I do not "hang out" with commies, cappies, lefties, or righties.
I "hang out" with people I like, good people that I enjoy the company of.
Some of these people are poor, some are rich, some are white, some are minority, some are conservative, some are liberal.
Political stance has nothing to do with the charecter of a person

I am NOT a communist, and I am fucking tired of saying so.
I am myself, and while my opinions and political stance overlaps with other people, and even political ideologies, I belong to none. There are also ideologies I am dead against. I am a party of one

Amazing how some people on RL are willing to accept that. Amazing how none of them are you.

You see the world as black and white, don't you?
Good and bad.
Left and right.
Us and them.

You have no idea who I am, and you have no interest, do you?

Do you?

You just decided "this bloke isn't a restricted member, so he must be bad. I'm going to personaly attack him and see how I can piss him off", didn't you?

I respect some of the right-wingests on this site, they try to form intelligent arguments, they voice their opinions (from what I have seen, ahhh_money_is_comfort is one of them).
They are willing to put up with a site dominated by lefties to offer informed debate. Some of them even try to understand where the lefties are coming from (they may not agree, but they comprehend).
Even the best of us may throw a random insult out of frustration at another non-deserving person, but it is backed up with pages and pages of responsible, intelligent debate.
These peope are better then you, and better then many lefties on this site.
If I were to met them in real life, I think we could become fast friends.

You, sir, are not one of them.

You have no right on this site if you have nothing more to offer then whines and insults.


"If you start throwing hedgehogs under me, I shall throw a couple of porcupines under you."

You are on this site not for intelligent debate, but to attack the members.
If you have nothing to do but piss off people who are nothing but pixels on the screen to you, you must be a boring person with little to do. Or a sad person who shows sociopathic tendencies.

I, on the other hand, have a life.
I have other things to do.

Because I have things I can do, and because I have a choice, and because I can, right now I am going to turn my computer off,
I am packing up my books and laptop,
I am going out the door,
I am walking to the bus stop,
I am going to my girlfriend's (fiance, in fact) and my apartment,
And I am going to fuck her good.

Some of us with lives do things like that.
I doubt you do.
If I offended then I apologize.

But I have to say, it always amuses me when people make long posts telling another poster that they don't care about and have no time for them.

It's interesting you complain that I see things in black and white, since had you read any of my previous posts you'd notice I'm very much opposed to radicals on both the left and the right. If anyone sees things as black and white, it's the radical leftists on this board (rich = bad, poor = good, capitalism = bad, etc.).

Hell, if you're sick of the two parties and consider yourself a centrist, then we probably have more in common than we do not.

Again, sorry for the assumption. [/b]
You obviously missed the point, cheif.

Contribute to the thread or bugger off.
Most of my message was over how you molested my words in order to discredit me. Moreover without any evidence to back it up.

If you can't stay on topic, if you must make personal comments about other members, and if you can't back up what you post, you do not belong here.

You've pissed off the administration before, why don't you see if you can do it again?

You say we have much in common. That does not mean I am anything like you.

[t_wolves_fan]

Fine, I shan't challenge your control issues.

Let's stick to the topic and explore your statement:


Humans are (if not the most) one of the most selfish animals in the world.

If this is the case, how would a system where all goods and services are free and labor is voluntary work?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort
Political stance has everything to do with a person when the[y] are willing to use violence, treason, and evil to get what they want.

Hey, violence, treason and evil!

Sounds good to me! :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by redstar2000+May 11 2005, 04:22 PM--> (redstar2000 @ May 11 2005, 04:22 PM)
ahhh_money_is_comfort
Political stance has everything to do with a person when the[y] are willing to use violence, treason, and evil to get what they want.

Hey, violence, treason and evil!

Sounds good to me! :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif [/b]
Free market system makes no excuse for morality or lack of.


On the other hand a system such as communism that wishes to establish a moral and just system, has problem if it comes from violence, treason, and evil. Bad karma does not give rise to good karma.