Skinheads...

[RASH chris]

Every now and then I see somebody talk about skinheads on this forum. And it's normally in a very negative sense. This is disheartening to me, and others, as I know there are some skinheads on this website. So please take a moment to look over this post and the links that I will include.

Skinhead culture started in the 60s in England. It was a reaction to the hippy movement and the focus on fashion and showing off that youth culture had become. Working class kids could no longer afford to keep up with the cool fashions that had been popular. So they addopted a more utilitarian form of dress, especially as they got older and started working. Jeans, boots, short hair, and suspenders (braces). These were out of necessity, and a sense to show off thier working class nature. The original skinheads were largely non/anti-political. If they voted they voted labour party (cause that's what you do if you're working class in England). They listened to soul music (yeah, like bee-bop), ska, and reggae. Around the 70's you see the first emergence of political skinheads. In the early to mid 70s many of the skinheads join the SWP (socialist worker's party). Many left wing bands also started, "The Redskins" who were a very talented socialist skinhead band with lots of influences (from ska, to soul, to rockabilly, to even some funky sounding stuff) and "The Angelic Upstarts" who were a socialist Oi band. Oi came from the fusion of the punk culture with skinhead culture (in the late 70s). This is where you begin to see the stigma of the "nazi skinhead" (who have no real base in the origins of the scene). The BNP (a nazi party in Britain) began to recruit young disenfranchised youths into thier ranks. Skinheads, who were already known for thier violence, were the perfect candidates. Since the BNP was able to organize and take advantage of the "bone"heads (as we call Nazi skins, since they have lost touch with the roots of the culture) they caught more media attention than the left-minded skinheads.

Here in the US politics were never a large part of the skinhead scene. Until the 80s when people like Tom Metzger of Whit Aryan Resistance started to follow the example of the BNP and take young, impressionable, violent youths and use them for his own devices. The US skinhead scene is based strongly in hardcore music, and has therefore been slower to accept left-wing elements as few American skins were around when soul, ska, and reggae (which often had socialist messages) were popular in the scene. However, there has always been a large anti-racist tendency in the US skinhead scene. In the 80s a surge in anti-racism within the skinhead scene occurred and a crew from Minneapolis (the baldies) began to organize a nation-wide anti racist organisation. The Baldies were largely left wing, and they created "the syndicate" which would later become known as "Anti-Racist-Action" which most of you Americans should be familiar with. And the baldie's influence is still there in the Pro-gay and anti-imperialist left wing slant of the ARA.

Here's a few links about different kinds of skinheads for further reading:

RASH (red and anarchist skinheads)-http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3475/
SHARP (skinheads against racial prejudice)-http://www.skullyrecords.com/sharp.htm
ASAP (anarchist skins and punks)-http://asap.azone.org/
NEAF (northeast anti-fascists)-http://northeast.antifa.net/
ARA (anti racist action)-http://www.antiracistaction.us/pn/

Wikipedia article on skinheads-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead
Wikipedia article on SHARP-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHARP
Wikipedia article on RASH-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_and_Anarchist_Skinheads

Insurgence Records (left wing skinhead music and message board)-www.insurgence.net

For the Europeans reading this, the very first link (RASH) has some links to Euro sites. If anybody else wants to contribute some links (esp. to anti-fa skinhead groups in europe) that'd be appreciated.

[Enragé]

still, the problem remains that if you are a skinhead you associate yourself with nazis, why would anyone want to do that? On top of that, i see skinhead-ism as a form of "YAYY LETS ALL BE DIFFERENT, BUT AS A GROUP WE'LL ALL BE THE SAME AND MARCH IN LINE"

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:09 PM
still, the problem remains that if you are a skinhead you associate yourself with nazis, why would anyone want to do that? On top of that, i see skinhead-ism as a form of "YAYY LETS ALL BE DIFFERENT, BUT AS A GROUP WE'LL ALL BE THE SAME AND MARCH IN LINE"
See this is what I'm talking about. This demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of another culture, but a firm willingness to reject it. That type of thought is the thing we stand against as leftists. And it's just common sense, that if you don't know something then you don't open your mouth.

Skinhead do not associate themselves with nazis, nazis associate themselves with skinheads. And if you had read the SHARP link you would've seen that the first SHARP New York chapter went a long way towards dispelling the bullshit lie which you are furthering. SHARP NYC went on television and radio and made great strides towards showing the truth. And even groups like the SPLC who issue reports about the threats of skinheads acknowledge SHARP and other goups as being anti-racist.


"YAYY LETS ALL BE DIFFERENT, BUT AS A GROUP WE'LL ALL BE THE SAME AND MARCH IN LINE"

You are very lucky that you don't say that somebody in person, anybody. Cause you'd probably get a punch in the face. Being a skinhead isn't about "being different". Where did you get that idea from? You obviously don't understand this culture, yet you fell free to open your fat mouth about it, and to hate it. Did you read anything in my description about being different or rebelious? No, it's a culture, and like other cultures, it has a common way of dressing, common music, and other common traits. Just like punk rock, hip hop culture, skateboarding culture etc. Nobody said anything about being rebelious. Being a skinhead is about being working class and proud of it.

[Enragé]

my fucking brother is a (nazi) skinhead, and all the skins i know are all fucking nazis. All they talk about is shooting muslims. No fucking offense but if the majority are all nazis, then, alas, a minority which is not associates himself with nazis. As for the march in line thing, all skins i know look the fucking same. thats why i said it.

[bolshevik butcher]

Mate i know plenty of working class people, who aren't chavs, hell sports gears well more expensive than a lot of the stuff i wear.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:25 PM
my fucking brother is a (nazi) skinhead, and all the skins i know are all fucking nazis. All they talk about is shooting muslims. No fucking offense but if the majority are all nazis, then, alas, a minority which is not associates himself with nazis. As for the march in line thing, all skins i know look the fucking same. thats why i said it.
The majority of skinheads are not nazis. Nor are they racist. If your brother and his friends were in my town they'd get beaten up everytime they left the house. Nazi skinheads exist almost entirely in the eyes of the media. In most of the US, they can't have shows anymore cause real skins go and bust them up. They can't have rallies anymore, cause of groups like the ARA which counter rally with hundreds more than the nazis ever bring out. All they can do anymore is to have websites, talk shit, and have a bar-b-q once a year, which gets counter-demo'ed like you wouldn't believe. They look the same? No kidding, they have a similar kind of clothes and haircut. All punks look the same with tight jeans and patches, all hip hop kids look the same, with thier baggy pants and sideways hats.


Mate i know plenty of working class people, who aren't chavs, hell sports gears well more expensive than a lot of the stuff i wear.

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you've said. (probably cause I don't do english slang) But I'm guessing you're talking about how skins wear expensive clothes yet still claim to be working class? Like the Fred Perry polos and Ben Sherman button ups and stuff? I know lots of skins who are not "brand exclusive" who'll go to the thrift store and buy button up shirts and jeans. That's what I do. Back in the day those clothes were affordable nice clothes, now they aren't, but plenty of skins still wear nice affordable clothes from other companies, and look just as sharp. And the skins who are clothing obsessed are often criticized for being so.

[bolshevik butcher]

anarchopunkchris, yeh that's about right, and i have been beaten up plenty of times by them, i agree you shouldn't generalize, but a lot of them are pricks.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 5 2005, 08:28 PM
anarchopunkchris, yeh that's about right, and i have been beaten up plenty of times by them, i agree you shouldn't generalize, but a lot of them are pricks.
Yeah for sure plenty are pricks. But plenty of people calling themselves communists were pricks too, and that hasn't stopped any of us.

I mean, I hate lots of people, but I don't hate people out of stupid pre-fabricated ideas that I actually know nothing about. I hate people, not groups of people. To hate skinheads would just be stupid. I'll go find a news report about a group of redskins in France that I think many of you will find quite interesting and inspiring.

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?...050213184402200 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050213184402200)
The news report I mentioned.

[FalloutBoy]

Well, in my lifetime, ( short ) I have experianced two run ins with "Skinheads" One, is when they where camping up in the woods near my house. They craved Swastics and Anarchy signs all over the trees. ( Nazism and Anarchy now mixes? )

The other one was when this guy was being a total assfuck to my friend who is black. Calling him a "nigger" and shit. I ended up grabbing him by his neck and punching him a few times.


Maybe I'm miseducated, but MOST skinheads are assholes.

What about Mussolini. He was a skinhead. He also was a weak leader and an asshole.

[RASH chris]

What about Mussolini. He was a skinhead.

You're an idiot. An absolute and total idiot.

Not to mention the fact that being an asshole has absolutely nothing to do with being a nazi. I am a full on, 100 percent asshole. And I've kicked the shit out of more nazis than you'll ever meet.

These guys who spray painted swazis and circle a's all over the place. They are obviously neither. And I fail to see how that is an arguement.

[fokker-scourge]

im muslim

and i dont judge people for what groups thay are in

but for what actions thay do

if i meet someone woh is a neo nazi/skinhead ill accept them until thay try too harm me

[Poum_1936]

All skinheads are pricks... minus the Redskins who Im cool with. I was a punk and hung out with Trad and SHARPS. They also suck. Especially the SHARPS who are nothing but Nazi's who dont discriminate based on skin. They just beat up anything that's different.

Thats been my experince in the LA punk scene.

[bolshevik butcher]

I'm not an anarchist but it pissess me off when people who obviously aren't anarchists use anarchy signs.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 06:02 AM
All skinheads are pricks... minus the Redskins who Im cool with. I was a punk and hung out with Trad and SHARPS. They also suck. Especially the SHARPS who are nothing but Nazi's who dont discriminate based on skin. They just beat up anything that's different.

Thats been my experince in the LA punk scene.
All black people are pricks, except for the ones I hang out with.

There is no difference between what I just said and what you just said. You hate an entire group of people because some who call themselves the same title are bad people. Stalin called himself a communist, but we don't hate communism.

I'm a SHARP, and I'm red. Maybe they beat you up cause you called them nazis. SHARP isn't a national organization anymore, there is no central SHARP chapter like there used to be, or like the is with ASAP, ARA, RASH etc. So anybody can be a SHARP. Therefore in one town, the SHARPs might sport RAC patches and fight the punks, and in another town I've seen SHARP chapters do security for GBLT events.

Do you people realise that if it wasn't for skinheads we wouldn't have the ARA? Which is a group that I bet everybody on here supports, and I bet we have a few members on here.

I see people in the anti-fa board talking about how to combat nazis all the time. Nobody does that more than ARA, ASAP, and RASH. They're the frontline fighting streetbased fascism. But you jackasses are promoting the lie that skinheads are nazis. And that's exactly what the nazis want you to do.

[Poum_1936]

Maybe your scene is different. But I have never heard of nor seen a Redskin in Los Angeles. I dont even think RASH or ASAP chapters exist here.

Trads are all generally nice people though they do have their moments. But I still have problems with SHARPS. They are just as militant and hateful as any nazi. There are alot of similarities between the two. This is just my experinces. They hate just as many things and will beat them up without hesitation. I have seen more than a few SHARPS on more than a few occasions beat up a "hippy" for hanging around the wrong area, which was in front of a club in Hollywood. They did however, ask the "hippy" nicely to remove himself from the premises. But the "hippy" was confused and didnt understand and kindly refused. Next thing you know the poor "hippy" found himself in the middle of a boot party thrown in his honor. I've just seen SHARP's do plenty of fucked up things.

They also seem to be extremely anti-punk. I read the SHARP flyer's long ago and how punk and skins always got along and the many songs about punks and skins and always thought the two were on a good friendly basis. But the skins in my area are far from being friendly with punks. There are those punks that are accepted but not many. Ive been told to cut my hair plenty of times of by skinheads who were in no way joking around with a hostile manner.

I fully understand that Skinhead's and bonehead's are different groups of people with different ideas. And have to repeatedly tell my friends the differences about skins and nazi's because apparantly its a really hard concept to understand, no matter how many times I repeat myself. I just have alot of problems with skinheads and the whole punk scene in general.

[sleepy1]

Mate i know plenty of working class people, who aren't chavs, hell sports gears well more expensive than a lot of the stuff i wear.


No mate you've confused him. Chavs are not skinheads in any way. Im surprised that your from the uk and you didn't know that.

those are Chavs--->Chavs (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)
Scallies (http://www.scallycentral.co.uk)

and those are Skinheads-->Skins (http://www.io.com/~qsb/words/news/)

[Guest1]

Welcome comrade.

The skinheads here in montreal were quite surprised when I offered to help them out in their fight against the boneheads, cause I got long hair :P

But yeah, we got along pretty well, and as they said, "we got the same cause".

RASH and others like them in the skinhead scene definitely get my respect.

Infact, I invented a brand new verb just because of this fight a few months back: the only way to deal with Neo-Nazis is to battotheface them.

There's definitely a need to recognize our comrades in the skinhead scene, and accept them as brothers and sisters in our struggle to end Capitalism, racism, sexism, homophobia and the state.

[Enragé]

everyone here who is trying to tell me most skins arent nazis where they live, I DONT CARE CUZ THAT VERY MIGHT WELL BE TRUE. Problem is OVER HERE THEY FUCKING ALL ARE.

[JazzRemington]

I read a few things on skinheads and I have to say I think it's facinating that they get their culture from blacks in a way.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 6 2005, 05:13 PM
Welcome comrade.

The skinheads here in montreal were quite surprised when I offered to help them out in their fight against the boneheads, cause I got long hair :P

But yeah, we got along pretty well, and as they said, "we got the same cause".

RASH and others like them in the skinhead scene definitely get my respect.

Infact, I invented a brand new verb just because of this fight a few months back: the only way to deal with Neo-Nazis is to battotheface them.

There's definitely a need to recognize our comrades in the skinhead scene, and accept them as brothers and sisters in our struggle to end Capitalism, racism, sexism, homophobia and the state.
Montreal has good people from what I hear, and I'm glad to hear it confirmed. I'm also glad to see that the redskins up there are getting along with the rest of the lefist scene. Stay Red Stay Rebel Stay RASH comrade!


POUM-You must understand that SHARP is no longer a real organization, it is now just a title, a kind of skinhead. Any skinhead who is anti-racist can be a SHARP now. Therefore, all over the country, even in different parts of the same city, you'll find some SHARPs sporting american flags and bashing punks, and in other you'll find SHARPs donning Che patches and carrying IWW banners. However, RASH and ASAP are growing steadily. And if you don't know any redskins in LA I am suprised, because I am sure they are there. They probably just aren't very active, as it souns your local skinhead scene isn't to appreciative of the left.

Newkindofsoldier-I strongly reccomend that you grow up. Now skinhead is a nazi. It is impossible, the nazis around you have merely stolen skinhead style. They hold nothing else in common with skinheads. Your post shows extreme immaturity, and I pray that you never meet a redskin such as myself or my comrades, as you might find your teeth lodged in a few boots if you choose to act so ignorant to our faces.

I do not deny the extreme tendency towards violence displayed by most skinheads. Its a part of the culture, and one that many skins take pride in. Myself included. We live in a serious environment, and our scene is threatend daily by people who promote lies. And we've gotta do, and are prepared to do, whatever it takes to keep our scene and our streets clean of nazi trash. And perhaps, if more on the left felt this way we'd be a little better off.

[Poum_1936]

POUM-You must understand that SHARP is no longer a real organization, it is now just a title, a kind of skinhead. Any skinhead who is anti-racist can be a SHARP now. Therefore, all over the country, even in different parts of the same city, you'll find some SHARPs sporting american flags and bashing punks, and in other you'll find SHARPs donning Che patches and carrying IWW banners. However, RASH and ASAP are growing steadily. And if you don't know any redskins in LA I am suprised, because I am sure they are there. They probably just aren't very active, as it souns your local skinhead scene isn't to appreciative of the left.

I hope there are. I really do. But in LA the Skinhead scene has been taken over by the whole gang scene. Skinheads have formed gangs against each other.

A month ago I was hanging out with an ex-skinhead friend of mine, Just kicking back and having a few beers between old chums. Then my friend notify's me of some skinheads present at the party. They were dressed up as gangsters, which we were told by another in the gang scene that they were Crips. They showed up to party. And my friend was tripping out. He knew of stories from this black skinhead who has murdered people without thinking twice. He showed up to the party to pivkup an ex-girlfriend. He acted like a complete dick to everyone including myslef. We asked to use the bong which he had but was not using in a nice manner. He gave us the bong but muttered ubder his breath "Dicks." 10 Minutes later he and his friends stole a head unit for a car sterio an Ipod and a few wallets while kicking my friends computer and breaking a part of it.

Me and my ex-skinhead friend were talking about it all night. We couldnt understand why a SHARP would do so.

I on the other hand think it is unique to LA with it's gang violnce. I once heard that the Templars of all people were too scared to come here. And the LA scene is very much full of gang violence,

I have plenty of repesct for the RASH and ASAP. They by far are the only ones to unite the "reds" and the "anarcho's." Just in LA, such revolutionary ideas do not exist among the skins I know. This among the skins I know and the random skins I have seen at gigs in Hollywood and the Showcase Theater (huge club which all sorts of bands play at, it seems to be a mandatory).

I listen to plenty of "red" bands including those in RASH. Brigada FLores Magnon is by far one of my favorite bands which is part of RASH. I absolutley love them. But it seems the situation with skins seems to be different across the world, espcially in LA wich the skins have developed their own new type of "skinheadism" which is based entirely to much on gang culture.

[RASH chris]

POUM- The gang aspect to skinhead culture isn't too new. Back in the early days the skins were all in gangs. But when the scene came to the US, were Americanized it, and with that came the culture of hardcore music, and being a punk (or former punk?) yourself I'm sure you know how the "tough-guy"/"thug-core"/"mosh-core" scenes are. They are very gang related, and they draw a lot of influence from gangs, especially latino ones. So the US skinhead scene's involvement in hardcore had a real formulative effect on the rest of the way the scene works. But there's a pretty big difference between hardcore skins and more traditional skins. Not only in the gnag mentality, but also just the fashion.

I think one thing is, the guy was a total asshole, but you couldn't understand why a SHARP would act that way? I never meant to imply that SHARPs are at all nice or personable people, only that they are anti-racist. RASH and ASAP on the other hand, have been some of the nicest people I've ever met, way nicer than a lot of people in the punk scene.

The way you describe the scene out there in LA I'd lay low if I was a redskin out there. We have a tendency to do that, just keep a low profile till there's enough reds to be able to walk around town safely. Especially out there on the west coast, where they had the murder of those two ARA skins.

[sleepy1]

I read a few things on skinheads and I have to say I think it's facinating that they get their culture from blacks in a way.

Yes pretty wierd. It was massively influenced by the rude boy culture. The rude boys attitude towrads life was "being someone in a society which thought you were nothing" was the precouser for the whole early skinhead/punk attitude. Its like having a black mother and a white father and choosing to be a racist.
But it is not as weird as right winged/white power hip hop songs- and yes there is such a thing(i never heard it in english but i did heard it in russian) <_< .

Skinheads are people, and people are diffrent. You cant expect them all to be nice, there are whole lot of assholes in the left scene. But it dosent mean that as a movment their cause is not just.

[themaskedavenger]

A few friends of mine were SHARPS from San Antonio, TX. SO i know the differences that anarchopunkchris is talking about.

[Djehuti]

I know a lot of skinheads, and I know of even more. Very few are nazis...there are far more communist and anarchist skins as far as I know then nazi skins. Here (Sweden) the organized nazis have become quite anti-skinhead, while more autonomous nazi groups and non-organized nazis still often keep to the shaved head. At the same time there is a growing number of Antifascist, anarchist and communist skinheads, mostly anglo-influenced "spirit of 69" casual kind of skinheads, croped hair (not bald), beer, football, nice dressed (Ben Sherman, Stone Island, Fred Perry, etc), listens to great music (like Cock Sparrer&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;) and total class war.

These skins rarely calls themself SHARP/RASH/Whatever-skins though. Most SHARP-skins I know of look pretty much the same as the nazi skins (bomber jacket, dirty levi jeans, Dr Martens boots, shaved head) and it is quite hard to tell them apart.

And as far as I know it is VERY common with antifascist and red skinheads in southern europe.

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 5 2005, 07:27 PM
Mate i know plenty of working class people, who aren&#39;t chavs, hell sports gears well more expensive than a lot of the stuff i wear.
Iam currently wearing a Ben Sherman shirt...I stole it, that is the skinhead secret. ;)

Accually, brands like Lacoste originally only had their wares sold in stores like Harrods and Lilywhites, but the staff there could not deal with all the casual skins hanging around the store stealing the clothes, and it is along that way brands like lacoste got out to other sellers, and those reached a broader public and were not as exclusive any more.
So the casual skins soon went over to other brands...

[Poum_1936]

I still think its funny that one of the three Last Resorts is in Hawaii

[Enragé]

alright just to let people know;

I STAND CORRECTED on my opinion of skinheads

forgive me my ignorance ;)

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 03:46 PM
alright just to let people know;

I STAND CORRECTED on my opinion of skinheads

forgive me my ignorance ;)
It&#39;s all good comrade.

[Synitik]

Hey wait, i shave my head, it&#39;s not completely bald, i just buzz it all entirely off. It&#39;s more efficient, I am not racist :)

Wether or not Im an asshole depends on wether or not someone does something towards me.

"I can be a villian if ya let me, a mother f**ker if you do upset me"-Tupac