A question about Communism

[FalloutBoy]

I'm trying my best to understand communism. But one thing that gets me stuck is what is my motiviation in communism to work hard and try to better myself? Let's face it, people are lazy. If we didn't have starvation and condensention glaring at us if we didn't work, how many people would work? What is a doctors motivation to go to 8 years (or more) of med school while a gutter cleaner makes the same exact amount?

[NovelGentry]

For starters, they don't "make the same amount." Money doesn't exist. If this sounds like I'm being picky, I'm only doing so because it helps to understand the system itself to understand the foundations on which it's incentive and drive is based.

The essential drive for any labor would be the most natural drive there is, necessity. We make food because we need food, we have doctors because we need doctors. This is not enough to say that the system is going to run smoothly, however. As you have pointed out it makes a lot of sense when the troubles of not having these things are looming directly over your head.

There is, however, much more that must be kept in mind. For example, one must realize the advancements made in the means of production, the availability of education and the possibilities of technology making things far easier for all of society, are going to break down the distinctions you commonly see under capitalism. We may all be "doctors" to some degree, with knowledge of medical training or how to, at the very least, operate the technology which makes medical treatment widely available. The educational necessities will not be so strict as you would imagine them. The formality of the education system in modern times will most likely have come extremely close to disappearing under this new system.

The means by which we learn and grow and eventually work will be far more fluid. Work will be seen as a means by which to practice what you love to do. That work which does not warrant such love, such as shovelling shit, will be nonconsequential either due to automation or due to a diverse amount of people contributing to the labor force to make this necessary labor happen.

We suspect that through socialism, the transitional phase to communism, as class antagonisms disappear and society takes on a new form, so will the individual. People will become fully conscious of their labor and the products of their labor and thus the necessity of their labor. This creates a society which no longer suffers from the hazards of "occupations" and "careerism," but one which is free and lucid in it's movements towards creating what is necessary.


“Necessity is blind only in so far as it is not understood.” Freedom does not consist in the dream of independence from natural laws, but in the knowledge of these laws, and in the possibility this gives of systematically making them work towards definite ends. -- F. Engels

[OleMarxco]

I want to abolish "med school" altogheter, and think we should just have, what we call, "job training". Of course, they will recieve, like, say, 3 weeks of learning the job before they get to do it and when they get into it they will have 2 more weeks of "running" "education" along with their current job. The 5 weeks will cover all that is necessary. Atleast, I think we should do so. Why they should become a gutter instead even if they get "paid the same" is obvious; Why WOULD you do that? They're lazy, but, they will be rewarded, if not forced, to sooner or later take up responsability. Plus, bein' a doctor....over a SHOE-MAKER....is perhaps more fun and diverse than cleaning the streets and etc., such.

But 'course, I may be wrong and it's impossible to cover all of the needed stuff about doctors in 5 weeks - But most of the time they don't need half of it, y'know what I'm sayin'? It doesn't have to be like I predict ;)

[Livetrueordie]

if i were lazy i rather be a doctor and take 8 years with my only job learning how to be a dcotor, just sitting around reading books and learning is a crap load easier, hell its what i do everyday on the computer and i'd get "paid" all the same.
also there's the reputational value, if i had worked harder to benefit others that would definitly earn you respect, as well as pride. IF you look at a mother whose son is a doctor, she'll introduce her son as "my son the doctor" or "Dr. ... My son" not my son the gutter cleaner, it displays the extra effort you went through.
Last consider also why u give someone a present it feels good to do something for someone else.

[waltersm]

if you don't meet your quotas you don't get your equal distribution of the products, of course you won't just be allowed to starve but you will have to put in more labour hours or something

[NovelGentry]

if you don't meet your quotas you don't get your equal distribution of the products, of course you won't just be allowed to starve but you will have to put in more labour hours or something

This is crap and there's no objective measurement possible to determine what one's quota should be. So what will you rely on? The subjective decision of others? Quotas are the most backwards and most likely exploitative system possible, they don't even make sense for socialism, let alone keeping them around after society has evolved to communism.

[waltersm]

true about fo rcommunism, I meant for socialism, but it is nessecariy in socialism as long as the governemnt is democractic so they will not exploit the workers

[NovelGentry]

true about fo rcommunism, I meant for socialism, but it is nessecariy in socialism as long as the governemnt is democractic so they will not exploit the workers

Just because you have democracy does not mean you lose exploitation. There could be a majority exploiting a minority... it is still not justified. More to the point, this is nonsense because it is unnecessary to create subjective quotas for determining the goods a person receives from society, there are far more objective means to do so, such as using labor time.

Quotas are completely rediculous and will be even more obsolete than capitalism by the time socialism rolls around.

[The Z-Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE]
Quotas are completely rediculous and will be even more obsolete than capitalism by the time socialism rolls around.
Exacly. People will be motivated for the exact reasons Novel Gentry said.