Is communism dead?

[codyvo]

I have heard from lots of people that communism is dead and they make some good points, the Soviet Union has fallen, China and Vietnam are both heading toward capitalism and Cuba is too weak to make a differance.
I have also heard the argument that communism is back on the rise. Venezuela, Chiapas and several other south american movements are gaining strength and support. Cuba has increased the effectiveness of its social policies and remained communist. China is moving toward capitalism but still has a huge communist movement.

I want to know what your opinions are on the state of the global communist movement.



It is a shame that we lost Angola, I love Angola.

[RedAnarchist]

Communism hasnt even been born.

None of those countries, not even Cuba, have come close to creating a communist society. Remember that communism in it's present form is still only about 160 years old - it needs a lot more time before anyone can say communism is dead. Plus there is a great revolutionary spirit that is growing.

[bolshevik butcher]

Sorry i just think it might be pointing out that a socialist reovlution is sweeping south america as we speak.

[lvialviaquez]

I agree with XPhile, we still haven't seen a truly communist (or for that matter much of a socialist) country yet. I think it's still too early to say whether the recent events in South America will lead to a true communist revolution. But it's definitely too early to say that communism is dead.

[bolshevik butcher]

I'd agreee there never has been communism. Venuzuela looks proimisingly emerging as a socialist country.

[Black Dagger]

Venuzuela looks proimisingly emerging as a socialist country.

State-capitalist 'socialism' maybe, but 'evolutionary' socialism, definately not.

[bolshevik butcher]

You know that the goverment is putting factories under workers' control and giving the land to the peasants. Typical ignorant westener, dishing something before they knowt he facts.

[Black Dagger]

Typical ignorant westener, dishing something before they knowt he facts.

:lol:, thanks 'comrade', vote-1 communism!

[bolshevik butcher]

Well cna you please explain your problem with venuzuela?

[Phalanx]

I wholeheartedly support Chavez standing up to the evil empire of the U$. But I say that it's too soon to tell whether Venezuela can form into a socialist society, or go down the road of failure, like China or Cuba. Until then, leftists of the world should stick together, otherwise our movement really will be dead.

[DoomedOne]

As ong as people believe in the bare-bones ideals of communism: freedom, the working-class, equality, then communism will never die whether the other aspects are evolved or the name changes.

[bunk]

I'm impressed with the way Chavez is de-centralising and giving more power to the workers

[h&s]

Even though Chavez is de-centralisng power (to a cetain extent) and is doing quite a lot of good things, we do need to realise that he is not a communist, and never will be. On one hand he is giving the workers part of what they need, but on the other hand he is the representative of the ruling class. No matter what he does that will always remain - he will never lead a true revolution. Despite the fact that he is attacking them in some aspects, Chavez is actually maintaing the existence of the capitalist class. If a right winger were in power the workers may decide to change things, so Chavez's appeasment of the working class is against their long-term interests.
Though thinking about it from another perspective, Chavez is maintaining the class consciousness (sp!?!) of the workers, thus helping them - who knows.
Anyway, undeniably, Chavez is good for the Venezuelans.

Anyway, communism is not dead - it never will be. As long as the working class exists, the working class will be exploited, and for as long as that happens, we will be trying to stop that. Its in the very nature of capitalism - the ruling class created the working class, and in that they created their own grave-diggers! :P

[lvialviaquez]

I think a better question than "Is communism dead?" would be "Is Leninism dead?"

What are people's thoughts on that?

[Bolshevist]

Look at Nepal and India, it is not correct that Leninism is dead.

[October Revolution]

It's a rather odd remark to make about communism being dead because it has never existed in a state where it could be considered fully practiced. Communism will have it's time and until it has it cannot be considered dead.
Just because it isnt widely practiced doesnt mean its gone and the ideology will live on in for a long time if not forever in the minds of exploited peoples, atleast thats my view which was actually like some of the other but i didnt read them :S Oh well

[OleMarxco]

Communism as we KNEW it, are dead. But now, it's time for the NEO-COMMUNISM to crush trough, only because we HAVE to. The one we know now, is just being born...LEARNING from the faults. I hope they take some elements from Titoism and such, I do :P

It's hard to be or try to be Communist trough Capitalistic times and when you're just a goddamn despot pretending to be nothing but a 'darn Socialist of a Despot reppin' State-Capitalistic-thoughts up in this BEATCH ;)

[Severian]

There's no reason to feel dispirited over the demise of bureaucratic regimes.

In fact, those regimes, and their influence worldwide, were a huge obstacle to revolution. Misleadership by pseudo-Communists loyal to these regimes led to the defeat of many revolutions.

So the prospects for successful revolutions in future are improved by the weakening (unfortunately not death) of Stalinism.

***

The fact is there's been no revolution in Venezuela, the capitalist state remains intact. Moves against landlord-capitalist property by the Chavez government have been very limited.

This isn't an attack on Chavez, or whatever, I just think it's important to be clear: he heads a bourgeois government.

[aztecklaw]

There are consquences that people need to look at.

The key to capitalism's success is their unique ability to shield out information from the citizens of their 'great works'.

Capitalism is responsible for the exploitation of 3rd world countries that contributes to the people dying of starvation and disease. NAFTA is an example of exploitation. It's just that people don't know that NAFTA is a death sentence to many people in Mexico, but people don't see it that way. So long as people don't see a gun from our forces directing killing a Mexican, the concious is free of any guilt or concern for morality in the matter because they don't see the connection.

The internet has been oasis of free information and opens up a river of different views that most people have been kept from. Many are opening their eyes and spreading the message.

You have to look at the facts. In the U.S., on the national scale, capitalism proves to be trending towards widening the income gap. Fewer rich, but the rich are richer. When you look at it these same items from the capitalist global scale, then numbers skyrocket to the absurd.

People are starting to see that globalization and capitalism doesn't work. People around the world are organizing around the world.

This is where socialism steps in and say "Okay capitalism, you had your chance. Now step away because it's my turn now."

The history of the U.S.S.R. provided many lessons to be learned in improving and implementing communism. We are starting grasp that only started out as an ideal. In order for mankind to progress, communism should be persued at all costs. Capitalism can't grow or evolve. It is what it is now. It allows no room for change. To conceed that we can't improve beyond capitalism hinders progress.

People are understanding, those that understand hand to get past a web of deception from the capitalists to keep them understanding communism. This is not an easy thing to do at all, be the reward is clarity.

Noam Chomsky is sold out at every lecture he teaches. He is practical and he makes sense. He draws people because it offers a chance to look in the mirror for American citizens and people are drawn to view because it makes sense. There are some genuinely upset people with today's system and the message is spreading.

I'm a bit positive. Birth of socialism in Venezuela is exciting and the rise of the Zapatistas and its intelligent war with the media that has been absolutely enlightening and inspiring, not only me but people all across the globe.

http://www.radioinsurgente.org/

We just need to keep freeing more minds, the more people are exposed to the facts, the more our numbers will be. I feel communism will find a home in some nation and grow and it will turn on other people to the ideas.

[GeekUSA]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 07:00 PM
As ong as people believe in the bare-bones ideals of communism: freedom, the working-class, equality, then communism will never die whether the other aspects are evolved or the name changes.


I definitely agree with this statement. Since these ideas are all that communism essentially has to prove its self and continue on, its a good thing that even children can understand concepts like equality and freedom. Communism is an idea that will evolve into reality, which is the beauty of the whole concept.

There is also always the possibility that a socialist state could evolve at any time in the future whether or not we may live to see it, as capitalism naturally digs its own grave. So I think alot of what keeps me hopeful is that someday the Capitalists are really going to mess up, though I might not experience it. You have to keep socialism alive even if its not for yourself.

Venezuela and the other promising countries are very encouraging. Any sort of individual attempt at socialism that is good for that country and others (ripple effect), is great if the imperialistas don't screw with it so much from the start. But even so, that could serve as an example of how bad imperialists are, I don't know. But, I'm not a Utopian Socialist, so I believe global evolution is the way to lasting and true socialism. :D

[Sukhe-Bator]

The failure of revolutions does not mean the death of communism, look at the bourgeois revolutions in Europe and how many setbacks they experienced, yet they prevailed in the end.

The threats to revolutionary victory are, well, the big one--nuclear weapons--and then there is the fear that advanced military technology is becoming monopolized by power elites. Workers' militias will find it harder and harder to compete with the ever-increasing killing power of bourgeois arms. I fear a future in which revolutionary workers are cut down by robotic steel planes like peasants with pitchforks by knights in suits of iron.

[American_Trotskyist]

Indeed Communism isn't dead. Stalinism is dead, as in the Soviet Union. The Maoist and Stalinist have no real explanation or theory on how Stalinism, in any form, will be successful. Revisionism? They revised it with Lenin first, but Leninism was scientific and held great possibility. Stalin died, how were they going to continue a Stalinist govenment, or communist as the Stainist say, without Stalin? How is your revolution to continue after your first leader is dead? Mao was already toning down the slogans and getting cushy with the West, so the other Mensheviks decide to put the 'Gang of Four' on trial after he’s dead, whats so significant about that? What happened when Stalin died, they shot Beria and then half assed condemned Stalin, without any real qualitive change. Ultra-Orthodox communism, stright Marx, is out of date. The phenomina of Imperialism has come about, Leninism is just Marxism but showing that a revolution could spark others and that a world wide revolution could bring socialism. Anyone who thinks socialism can be built in one country is completely ignorant of the world economy.

Chavez is using Neruvian socialism to empower the bourgeoisie, the revolution maybe carried on by the masses, but I doubt if that is Chavez's goal. Still I fully support Chavez and the revolution.

Sometimes I do wonder if we can even survive capitalism. Nukes, extreme destruction of the environment and biological warfare all make me shiver. The capitalist couldn't possibly transfer all of their armed forces or industrial to machines, not because they lack the ability, but it would crush the surplus value.

[cormacobear]

Socialism, which is necessary to achieve communism, is again on the rise after an admitted low on the last twenty years. The more recent changes toward Socialism are occuring without many of the authoritarian overtones seen before following more bloody changes in government. The events in south america are very inspireing, Canada's most left wing official party is at it's highest point in the polls ever, Europe is the key though.
There is rising left wing sentiments in Germany, but France is moving farther right, country by country in Europe this is the case for every Sweden or Denmark there is an England or Italy. Europes location and undeniable commercial power is needed in the left wing corner if we can hope to counter American (which is moving farther right) efforts in Africa and Asia. Cubas survival over all these years is nothing less than a david and goliath story the increased trade with a more socialist friendly latin America will likely raise the standard of living in the countries concerned quite quickly under solid socialist policies. We can only hope that their success is the impetus needed to turn Europe, and that once their standard of living rises they don't swing back right as is all to often been the case.

[bolshevik butcher]

yeh things are actually looking up just now, the media manages to miss it though.

[chebol]

It's a bit moot already, but, no, communism is not dead. As a reality it has not been acheived. As an idea it still holds more validity than any other. And we need, now more than ever, to be fighting to acheive it.

On Chavez, just quickly, h&s makes a number of very absolutist statements. he will "never" be a communist, he will "never" lead a revolution.

1. Firstly, this is very unscientific. People change through experience, as Chavez has. When he began, he thought there was a 3rd way between socialism and capitalism. Now he doesn't. Further, his brother is a marxist. And this gets me onto my next point.
2. Chavez is playing an important role in assisting the only (in the long run) decisive part of society to organise and empower itself- the working class. Sometimes it seems like he can't win for some people, either he's "betraying the working class" by not nationalising everything at once, or he's doing it by taking power (at the behest of the mass of Venezuelans) and is therefore complicit in the bourgeois system. Blah blah blah.
The working class, and it's leaders will make Venezuela socialist. Chavez is just one such leader, and the working class are getting organised. Many of the leadership team around Chavez are also marxists, and there are marxists organising and propagndising amongst the people with ever greater success.

So, no. Communism is by no means dead.

[dying_in_z_sun]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 1 2005, 04:57 PM
Sorry i just think it might be pointing out that a socialist reovlution is sweeping south america as we speak.
:blink: :ph34r: well .....

nothing dies for eva

and i think it will rise and one day we will say it was

but now it is a communict political time

so just in time every thing will be back to the old communist time

and we will live as we live...... :o :) :unsure: :(

[dying_in_z_sun]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 1 2005, 04:57 PM
Sorry i just think it might be pointing out that a socialist reovlution is sweeping south america as we speak.
:blink: :ph34r: well .....

nothing dies for eva

and i think it will rise and one day we will say it was

but now it is a communict political time

so just in time every thing will be back to the old communist time

and we will live as we live...... :o :) :unsure: :(

and nothing dies under the sun

the sun will have to die first

NeO :ph34r:

[Rasta Sapian]

communism the word, the political organization willing to stand up against a capilalist libertarian or conservative state party might be cold..........as cold as the cold war

but we got hot my socialist friends, because we have ideas and words that express economic equality and utopian concepts for society

leninism is hot
marxism is hot
maoism is hot
utilitarianism is hot
cheism should be as hot as an anarxist with and AK in hand in front of a mickey D's in Bagdad............................
progressive socialism is definately on the rise