DeLeonism

[RASH chris]

Does anybody have some articles from an anarchist or left communist point of view on DeLeonism? I've been reading about it a little and it has sparked my interest. (even though the New Union Party and the Socialist Labor Party are essentially dead) And I'm just interested in what people with ideologies similar to mine have to say.

[SonofRage]

Politics vs. Syndicalism: a Case Study of the IWW (http://www.iww.org/culture/articles/Gaylord1.shtml)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Good read, tnx man. Although I agree that the IWW shouldn't be affiliated with political parties. I do favor them being politicized and using strikes, actions for political goals.

[RASH chris]

Thank you. I must say, having read the counter-points made by the IWW that I obviously didn't put enough thought into DeLeonism.

[redstar2000]

The DeLeonist Anachronism (http://redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082822860&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Severian]

Here's another recent thread on DeLeon (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34244)

[workersunity]

http://www.newunionist.org/DE_LEONIST_STUDY_COURSE.htm

[mikelepore]

Hello, fellow workers -- I know a good place to get more info about that .... I'm the administrator of http://www.deleonism.org/ , which has a forum similar to this one.

Mike Lepore
lepore at bestweb dot net

[workersunity]

ya cool, ive checked that site out before its pretty good

[mikelepore]

Marxism-DeLeonism proposes a dual industrial-political program:

* The union movement should take a structure that's appropriate for being converted directly into a new management system. The industrial union should have departments that follow the outlines of industry, so that the workers can take possession of the industries and services, and immediately continue to operate them, self-managed, for social use. The properly-constructed union is both a means and a goal of the socialist reconstruction of society.

* The political movement of the working class should clearly and uncompromisingly express the intention to take the weapon of the state away from the capitalist class, to deliver a democratic mandate for social ownership of all industries, and to make immediate progress not to run the state but to dismantle it.

DeLeonists believe that suggestions to adopt government control or government ownership of industry, even if their supporters express a belief in "workers' control", are NOT steps in the direction of socialism. Only a workplace-based organization of labor can take steps to establish socialism.

With a few exceptions, we rarely express support for reforms that would lessen the suffering of the working class under capitalism. Although we don't oppose these reforms, and we sympathize with the intentions, we believe that expressing objectives that are less abrupt than "capitalism out and socialism in", if given in socialist literature, are usually distractions from the kind of systemic understanding that needs to be promoted.

Mike Lepore
email lepore at bestweb dot net
forum at http://www.deleonism.org/forum/

[workersunity]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 07:26 PM
The DeLeonist Anachronism (http://redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082822860&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
thats not about deleonism, its your biased view of it, and shouldnt be used for someone trying to get an understand of deleonism,

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by workersunity+May 21 2005, 02:51 PM--> (workersunity @ May 21 2005, 02:51 PM)
[email protected] 23 2005, 07:26 PM
The DeLeonist Anachronism (http://redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082822860&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
thats not about deleonism, its your biased view of it, and shouldnt be used for someone trying to get an understand of deleonism, [/b]
What do you suggest? That people should just read the hype and ignore any critical examination?

You know things don't work like that around here.

Sorry. :)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[workersunity]

well im saying he should know what deleonism is, before reading criticisms against it, because if he reads your article first, he wouldnt be able to counter it, even if warranted

[STI]

The same could be said of him reading any pro-DeLeonist stuff (www.deleonism.org, for example), but I don't see you criticizing that.

[Severian]

I think that Workersunity has a point about reading a tendency's stuff first and then the critiques of it. If you're knowledgeable about the facts, and good at critical thinking, you should be able to come up with your own critique before reading the others.

It's even more true of historic figures, like DeLeon - if you're willing to take the time, the most serious way to evaluate 'em is to read their own stuff first.

Redstar does that himself at least part of the time I think; he's actually pretty serious about theory...he's just kinda rigid and often not fact-based.

There's some writings by DeLeon on marxists.org. Had some value in its time. Heck, maybe some of it has value today.

[workersunity]

well you say pro-deleonist stuff, maybe thats because its a deleonist site, and has some of his works on there, also read some deleon works on www.marxists.org. ya like he said you should read it first, then if your against find a good argument, while knowing what deleon supported