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View Full Version : Democracy, a terrible lie



Wolnosc-Solidarnosc
20th April 2005, 04:47
Again another response to something in a forum I can't access. I hope clarksist sees this as I doubt anyone will move this where it belongs.


Clarksist, your criticisms of democracy are valid. Indeed, pick up any major philosophical text other than Locke's Treatises and you'll see many of the issues you have raised.

The type of democracy I imagine you would like is one with full consent of all the people. Such an approach has been tried in government before and it failed miserably. Full consensus means that every single member essentially has veto power. Full consensus may work in VERY small settings but not on the scale of a modern state. Direct democracy may have worked somewhat for Greek city states but again, those were small "states" with simple economies and narrow citizenship. The greater the majority required to pass legislation, the more power a small minority has. Is that really rule by the people?

The large scale of modern states has created a need for representation. This in turn has created a whole slew of questions and problems that I'll get into if you actually see this post.

Democracy is a funny institution. There is no one model of democracy that states must follow. It varies from place to place in significant ways ranging from electoral systems, to parliamentary structure, etc. It's a lot easier to say what a democracy is NOT as opposed to what it IS.

Personally I'm a fan of proportional representation. Every party gets the number of seats equal to their % of the popular vote. Again, I'll go into details if this post gets any srious replies.

Jersey Devil
20th April 2005, 04:52
What specifically do you have against PR?

Wolnosc-Solidarnosc
20th April 2005, 04:54
Against PR? I said I was a fan of it.... I'm for it.

Jersey Devil
20th April 2005, 05:07
Misread it. Indeed, I agree with it as well.

Wolnosc-Solidarnosc
20th April 2005, 05:56
from comrade_mufasa


I completely forgot who said this but, "Democracy is not the greatest form of goverment possible, its just the best we have"

I think it was "Democracy is the worst system, except for all the rest." It was Winston Churchill that said it and I agree with him.

The Garbage Disposal Unit
20th April 2005, 07:14
Weeeeeeeeeeeee!



Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 03:16 AM
All of this led me to realize the even when you take out the capitalist perversion on democracy, you still have the same fundamental problems. If a country is divided up 30%; 10%; 10%; 20%; 20%, than the country is controlled by less than a third of the citizens, and seventy percent are left of the proceedings.
Isn't this alleviated by simply requiring 50%+1 for a decision to be made? :P

Haha, seriously though, moving along to the actual question of direct democracy in an anarchist or communist society, I think you're missing some important points.

While consensus is ideal, it's not always posible - there will never be a world in which we all agree on everything. The beauty of an anarchist/communist society is the option to "opt out". If the result of the democratic process is so abhorent to you that you just can't bring yrself to carry out whatever decision was made, unlike under current systems, there's nothing to stop you from leaving and doing yr own thing! In capitalism, there are mechanism s in place that insure this can't happen (and if you find a loophole, they've always got the state to crack yr skull . . .) - but in a communist society, if a community or collective is making decisions that you just can't live with, then you are free to associate yrself differently (depending on specific situations, this may not even require physically relocating).

I mean, really, why would you sign up to work at the "Straight-Edge Shoe Factory Collective" if you like smoking dope at work?