New Pope Elected

[coda]

Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict 16th

secret societies are always bad

[Son of the Revolution]

How long before mussolini and franco are canonised?

If only we had another Mehmet Ali Agca... :angry:

[bolshevik butcher]

the facism goes one. 2/3 of catholics are int he third world, isn't it time they got a voice?

[Edelweiss]

Bad choice! Not that I care much who is leading this shithole, but Ratzinger is known to be deeply reactionary and dogmatic, he is pretty unpopular here in Germany. He surely won't do any reforms of the catholic church.
Although the best reform of the catholic church would be of course to abolish it. :lol:

[coda]

apparently he was a member of the Hitler Youth club.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html

[fernando]

This is him right?
http://religion.rutgers.edu/jseminar/images/emperor.jpg

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 07:31 PM
apparently he was a member of the Hitler Youth club.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html
Well, that doesn't say much really. Nearly everyone was sending their chideren to the Hitlerjugend back than. You can blame his parents for that, but not him.

[LaVictoria]

haha, Fernando, that's him allright :P
I don&#39;t get it, why do they choose someone that&#39;s that old&#33; He&#39;ll die in few years, what&#39;s the point...and ofcourse it had to be someone from Europe <_<

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 07:52 PM
haha, Fernando, that&#39;s him allright :P
I don&#39;t get it, why do they choose someone that&#39;s that old&#33; He&#39;ll die in few years, what&#39;s the point...and ofcourse it had to be someone from Europe <_<
"They" say it will be a pope of transition, before someone will become pope who will really realizing needed reforms.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 05:52 PM

I don&#39;t get it, why do they choose someone that&#39;s that old&#33; He&#39;ll die in few years, what&#39;s the point...and ofcourse it had to be someone from Europe <_<
Because they don&#39;t want another long Pontiff like JP2.

[OleMarxco]

Hm, oh yes, there will surely be no "reforms" with this guy...Oh yeah, more like REVOLUTIONS...watch out, the second crusade is coming....heading west instead of east this time, holy shit&#33; Like: "Time to cleans out those goddamn atheist wannabe-philosophers&#33;"

Watch out, mom&#33; Big bad OPUS DEI&#33; ;)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

2/3 of catholics are int he third world, isn&#39;t it time they got a voice?


Sure, but why do you care? Aren&#39;t you supposed to be a "communist"?

Why do you care about catholics?

[guerillablack]

Just because he may be communist doesn&#39;t mean he can&#39;t comment on it. I mean shit its pretty logical to me.

[Matthew The Great]

They probably knew who JP2&#39;s replacement was going to be for a while now.

I was hoping for an African Pope myself.

[red_orchestra]

The Catholic Church is fucking useless...but today, the election of an ex-hilter youth pontiff just went to show how twisted the whole situation is. Anyway, this pope will be dead in a few years...and who knows, maybe he will discredit organised religion so badly nobody will want to near another Church.

:) LOL&#33;

[che's long lost daughter]

Does being communist mean not caring about people who practices something which is opposed to communism i.e the practice of religion? NWOG, sorry but i think that is a stupid comment.

[SpeCtrE]

ONe question..

Is he the ultra concervative kind of a guy. is he anti gay

[bunk]

Just to point out, when he joined hitler youth it was compulsory.

[SpeCtrE]

Fuck, fuck him... I guess someone should come up with a decent plan to kill him this time. Just like the one they tried to pull on John fucking paul the second.

[seraphim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 07:58 AM
ONe question..

Is he the ultra concervative kind of a guy. is he anti gay
Absoloutely more so than JP2 was.

[viva le revolution]

Just tell me honestly, what difference would it have made if a liberal pope is elected? It&#39;s not like the catholic would have suddenly taken up the cause of the workeror opposed Capitalism. The whole Vatican itself is a corrupt insitution, what difference would one man have made, who himself was brought up in that atmosphere.
Comrades, we should not be arguing who should be elected &#39;cause the vatican always has been and always will be pro-capitalist and pro-imperialist, instead the whole idea of centralised worship should be abolished altoghether along with those who claim power on the basis of other&#39;s religious beliefs.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Does being communist mean not caring about people who practices something which is opposed to communism i.e the practice of religion?

Of course not.


I think it&#39;s pretty clear that the West, especially the economic elite in the West, do not give a shit about third world workers or peasant. I won&#39;t expect them to elect one from the third world, out of "fairness". And even if they do, what does that mean? It means nothing, because that person will carry the same reactionary ideas as a Western Pope.

Maybe it would be "healthy" as to have a "third world Pope" (because it could move our focus more towards the world outside the West), but I won&#39;t suspect a Pope coming from a third world country to be any better. There are plenty of reactionary leaders and rightwing dictators in poor, underdeveloped countries.


And as far as I know, the Pope is not elected by popular vote, but by the cardinals?

We are talking about one of the most reactionary people in this world.

Even a stronger reason to "fear" that a "third world Pope" will emerge.







NWOG, sorry but i think that is a stupid comment.

That is your prerogative.

[SpeCtrE]

Originally posted by viva le [email protected] 20 2005, 09:34 AM
Just tell me honestly, what difference would it have made if a liberal pope is elected? It&#39;s not like the catholic would have suddenly taken up the cause of the workeror opposed Capitalism. The whole Vatican itself is a corrupt insitution, what difference would one man have made, who himself was brought up in that atmosphere.

I think Viva le Revolution is right,

Shouldn&#39;t we be concerned more about abolishing the whole system of organized worship than talk about who gets to become the man who gets to head that heap of shit Vatican?

[bushdog]

I think that a pope that is sympathetic to Liberation Theology would advance the communist ideal thoroughout the world. Other than being irrational and brainwashed on the whole religion thing, liberation theology does promote some leftist ideals.

[Black Dagger]

I think that a pope that is sympathetic to Liberation Theology would advance the communist ideal thoroughout the world

Any combination of catholic hierarchy and &#39;communist ideals&#39; is EXTREMELY problematic (insane), and besides, do you really think someone like Ruiz or another &#39;liberation theologist&#39; is EVER going to make it anywhere near the vatican? The pope, as THE position of authority in the catholic hierarchy, is the personification of catholic dogma. How a person can be the personification of catholic dogma and contribute anything of value concerning the &#39;communist ideal&#39; seems very alien to me.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 11:09 PM

2/3 of catholics are int he third world, isn&#39;t it time they got a voice?


Sure, but why do you care? Aren&#39;t you supposed to be a "communist"?

Why do you care about catholics?
eh the poor the opressed the protaletarians, most of latin america is cahtolic.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

http://www.vg.no/bilder/edrum/1113976427094_70.jpg




eh the poor the opressed the protaletarians, most of latin america is cahtolic.

Do you like religion?

[red_che]

Well, I was right with my guess. A liberal Pope cannot be elected as well as Cardinals from the third world. Benedict XVI is the affirmation of Roman Catholic Church&#39;s conservatism and undying secret politics within the walls of Vatican. <_<
A liberal Pope may have done a great difference with the way the Catholic Church would deal on some issues. But, the conservatives and anti-communists bent steels there inside the Sistine Chapel to prevent a liberal Cardinal from getting elected. :angry:

[SpeCtrE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 08:08 AM
Well, I was right with my guess. A liberal Pope cannot be elected as well as Cardinals from the third world. Benedict XVI is the affirmation of Roman Catholic Church&#39;s conservatism and undying secret politics within the walls of Vatican. <_<

True that.

I was hoping for a black pope.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

what are you guys talking about? Nothing says reform like a once-NAZI soldier&#33;

His face alone scares me shitless. I wonder what the third world will do to him if he ever comes to visit them.

[patria grande]

Ratzinger is just a fascist&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
for more than 20 years he used to be the prefect of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith (the infamous inquisition).
he was the guardian of the dogma:
Banned the theology(and theologists) of liberation from the church
salvation only through the catholic church
no rights for women
banned the gays from the church
no condoms....
jp2 was a media man, this guy is really dangerous, the perfect pope for a perfect murderer: gwb.

:angry:

[red_che]

(Eagle @ April 22, 2005 9:48 AM)

I was hoping for a black pope.


I too hoped for a black Pope. I also wanted an Asian Pope, someone from the Philippines. We have here some progressive Bishops. However, the only Filipino Cardinal who was elegible was not elected. :cool:

[Pawn Power]

No Tears for Pope Who Blessed Death Squads
Reactionary John Paul II consecrated his considerable energy and talents to a life of anti-communism. For his help in preserving their murderous profit system, liberal U.S. rulers are pouring out their gratitude to the late pope, despite their recent differences with him. The church John Paul led, like all religions, immeasurably helps capitalist classes around the world by preventing workers from identifying the capitalist causes of their oppression and organizing revolution. Catholicism — along with Judaism, Islam, Protestantism, Buddhism, and the rest — boils down to the dead-end concept of idealism. In the idealist view, there exists beyond the real, material world a supreme being that guides the course of events no matter what people do. War and oppression become the "will of god." Fighting back is pointless.

John Paul embraced and espoused religious, anti-communist defeatism body and soul. When the Soviet example was attracting thousands of workers into Europe’s communist parties in the 1930’s, John Paul (Karol Wojtyla at the time) entered a Polish seminary, hoping to rise high in the vast church hierarchy. When the Nazis invaded Poland, he joined an underground Catholic sect, which, unlike red-led partisans, followed the official Vatican line, doing and saying nothing that would antagonize the Nazis. The anti-communist Catholic "quietism" young Karol preached helped make Poland the heart of the Nazis’ extermination camp system. During the war, in fact, the future pope developed an admiration for the Nazis that resurfaced when in 1994 he bestowed a papal knighthood on former Nazi officer Kurt Waldheim, who also became UN Secy. General and President of Austria.

A decade before John Paul became pope in 1978, Catholic bishops in Latin America, dismayed that their support for U.S.-backed dictators impelled masses of workers to search for revolutionary answers, concocted Liberation Theology. This doctrine blended grass-roots organizing and mild criticisms of capitalism with Catholic teachings, but explicitly ruled out armed revolution (although many of its rank-and-file followers believed in exactly that). John Paul, however, couldn’t stomach the slightest hint of Marxism. He pulled the plug, forbidding priests to participate in politics and threatened to excommunicate activists in Nicaragua and El Salvador. John Paul did not protest the CIA-trained death-squad murder of El Salvador’s Bishop Romero, a critic of that government’s wholesle slaughter of civilians. Even the Jesuit Democratic congressman Robert Drinan of Massachusetts, who was no more a revolutionary than his mentor Teddy Kennedy, had to vacate his seat under John Paul’s order.

John Paul’s next big anti-communist coup soon followed. By then, serious political errors, such as maintaining wages and a state separate from the party, had turned all the once-communist parties in the world into their opposites. The Soviet sphere and China, which remained threats to U.S. interests, had become thoroughly capitalist. But they falsely still used the label "communist." This offered U.S. rulers the chance to attack their strategic enemies while simultaneously denouncing communism as a corrupt failure.

Ever the opportunist, the pontiff prostituted his services immediately. In addition to funneling funds into Lech Walesa’s reactionary Solidarity union movement, also financed by the CIA and the AFL-CIO, John Paul made a 1979 barnstorming tour of Poland that helped build it and eventually topple the teetering pro-Moscow regime in Warsaw. When Walesa eventually became Poland’s leader, his corrupt government attacked the workers he claimed to represent, with mass layoffs and cutbacks in social services.

Even though today the pundits claim John Paul and Reagan were responsible for the fall of the Soviet bloc, the main reason behind its demise was the contradiction inside the Soviet system as local capitalists drove to eliminate all the gains made by workers under real communist leadership.

The crack-up of the Soviet Union altered the political landscape of Europe, and John Paul’s role there. No longer needing the U.S. nuclear umbrella to protect them, Europe’s rulers began to behave more independently. They rejected U.S. dominance of Persian Gulf oil, a given since 1945. John Paul himself soon cemented his ties to the fanatically anti-communist Opus Dei sect, founded by the now beatified Monsignor Escrivá, private confessor of Spain’s fascist ruler Francisco Franco, and now bankrolled by French capitalists like Claude Bébéar, head of financial giant AXA. When John Paul took a pro-European stance against U.S.-led plans to invade Iraq, the U.S. rulers’ liberal media pounced on the well-known dirty secret that many priests were pedophilic predators.

Criminal cases in U.S. courts have jailed predator priests once coddled by John Paul, and lawsuits have forced the church to sell off crown jewels of its real estate empire. U.S. rulers want to politically distance U.S. Catholics from a pro-European Vatican. The coming pontifical election will in many ways reflect this inter-imperialist rivalry.

Under John Paul, Catholic Church membership rose from 750,000,000 to over a billion. But still the Pope exacerbated the many troubles facing the Catholic church. Many Christians in Western Europe don’t practice their religion. In Latin America, fascistic pro-U.S. protestant sects are gaining ground, particularly in Central America. Many catholic schools and churches are being shut down in the U.S.

All these things present both difficulty and opportunity to those of us who fight for a world without capitalism and its racism, wars, starvation, fascist terror and mass unemployment. That so many people call themselves members of institutions that explicitly condemns communist revolution presents a real obstacle to building a mass revolutionary international movement like PLP. But most people belong out of a desire to be a part of something larger than themselves and to share in some aspect of the social good works the church shamelessly promises but seldom delivers. The majority of the mourners filling the streets of Rome and churches everywhere have aspirations for a world free of exploitation and the hell on earth that is capitalism. Our job is to win them to the rational, communist outlook of building for a revolution.

CHALLANGE April 27, 2005

[Shevek]

Frankly I consider Roman Catholicism one of the most arcane, cultish, and ignorant religious sect in the world. When you think about it animism is less arcane than Catholicism and its been around MUCH longer.

Good Catholics I have met, but convincing arguments for joining Catholicism, I have not found.

[Black Dagger]

A friend of mine recently &#39;found&#39; or re-&#39;found&#39;(?) his &#39;faith&#39; in catholicism, he says he &#39;knows&#39; he can &#39;make&#39; me believe in (a) god, hilarious.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by Clenched Fist+Apr 21 2005, 06:51 PM--> (Clenched Fist &#064; Apr 21 2005, 06:51 PM)
[email protected] 19 2005, 11:09 PM

2/3 of catholics are int he third world, isn&#39;t it time they got a voice?


Sure, but why do you care? Aren&#39;t you supposed to be a "communist"?

Why do you care about catholics?
eh the poor the opressed the protaletarians, most of latin america is cahtolic. [/b]
No. I just thought that since we were ment to be concerned with the massess it might be worth bringing up.