Why not just.....

[OleMarxco]

Federal agents don't mean shit outside the U.S, so that. This reply will be continued. I'm not saying it won't affect us, I'm just saying we could try. Pessimists are just another word for cowards in my book. Pay taxes? Hell no. We're sovereign, and if we do well - we will make it all by ourselves. Food, Weapons, Shelter - you name it. However, in Europe, there's still a few small countries who "can't afford" to be led. If they somehow where "bought off", then maybe......but don't count on it. Bein' realistic here folks, even thought I am in my heart very optimistic.

Oh, and that "Christiania"-thing - Far from what's I'm plannin' - Not INSIDE an City, but OUTSIDE on IN an Land. Sovereign, non-tax-payin', independant and self owned - and purely communist ;)

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

I don't think any such idea could work here in our time now. I can imagine that the colonists of Mars somehow revolt and build a socialist world - and since it takes time to get there, and probably will for some time (about one year, if I remember) - the "Martians" have a bigger chance of success (connections here on Earth could provide information on attack crafts).

As the link said, the "Freetown" was taken over by biker gangs. How would we protect ourselves from the police, or the army?

We can do it - but what about those who need it? I mean, sure, we live in a Western society and we can probably get material and stuff to live on - but what about the poor and the exploited in other places? Creating this "Freetown" wouldn't do very much for the people who actually needs it.

Would people go there? Most people, to my knowledge, feels confortable with having a job, a future/career, family and so on. They want to keep much of our institutions because it gives them money. They would only see this "town" or place as something else.

There are many other things which makes such dicision to create a "freetown" very hard. What if it fails? What will you do after that?

[OleMarxco]

This is an thought experiment:
Instead of revolting an overtaking an country by force OR reforming a communist party into power by non-violence, what about living off the land somewhere sort of 'starting' a real communistic society and inspiring deprived workers to come live there, and gradually turn into a full-fledged town with all sorts of industries (YES DOCTORS AND SHOE-WORKERS TOO.), then later a city, then expand and make a nation - with armed military to defend against imperialistic capitalists and THEN forge our weapons to consume the world under this rule so they can see the light and love of our world? Or....not?

I know this sounds silly. But as the forum says, no question is too silly or stupid. What do YOU think of this? :lol:

[RedAnarchist]

Its a good idea, but two points -

1. No capitalist country would even consider allowing you to take any land for the creation of a communist society.

2. All good, cultivate-able land is held by capitalist nations.

[OleMarxco]

In answer to your two points -

1. We will not seek their permission. We will defend ourselves if needed be. But, if possible, we will take a neutral piece of land. Even so, I think someone would be reasonable enough to give us some unused and/or unneeded place. Even still, how could they monitor our society before it's big enough to be visible but then, it would be too late. Defence against the capitalists will be a main priority.

2. -Every-? I am not so sure. Even so, we could slack from the limitations here and do a revolt. But, I'm sure there's somewhere there's no capitalist influence and/or establishment which is still reasonably cultivated....hm? :)

[NovelGentry]

Few points to keep in mind:

Property rights demand that you "buy" the land. Taxation demands you continue to lease it's use from the state so to speak. Private interests or the state itself will at some point attempt to fulfill the use of this land and because it is not yours (never was never will be) you will be removed.

What you propose is starting a very primitive society. Unless we all have the means to buy factories and build up existing industry on this land, we would resemble little more than the existing nature of the Amish minus the religious aspects.

Primitising our lives is not what communism is about. There is no way to ensure large enough land to guarantee we will have all the resources we need (including raw materials). As the population groes, so too must the land. I'm not aware of any town sized plots of usable land that are open for the taking.

What would you defend this with? Rocks? Neutral pieces of land doesn't exist, if it's not held privately it is held by the state through "bank" ownership.

You say the workers will come and what not, but come and do what? Modern world workers are trained to operate the machines of heavy industry, or the computers of the tech industry... they (at least in any advanced capitalist country) do not face medieval technological production. We do not have blacksmiths, and handmadens to sew our garments. We need bending and molding machines, looms, sewing machines, etc. The workers of today would not really know how to begin to build a feasible society without any of this.

Where do you propose we get this?


Even still, how could they monitor our society before it's big enough to be visible but then, it would be too late.

It would be visible the instant it was created. You're talking about building a town here -- and strangely you think the army of a town could hold off the army of a country. Or are you going to get enough land to make a state? Well then it's a bit more noticeable.


Defence against the capitalists will be a main priority.

Hopefully, but don't expect it to keep you afloat for very long.


But, I'm sure there's somewhere there's no capitalist influence and/or establishment which is still reasonably cultivated....hm?

No.

[Parkbench]

This is actually a very plausible and in my opinion the best method of revolution. Simple change--not takeover, or forced change. A good example is Freetown Christiania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania).

There are desolate areas--the idea would be to choose a very ignored part of the country (let's say we're talking about the US). With a large amount of supporters and effort, one could build up a veritable town, city, province, what have you. And yes, it could hopefully attract others...the same way Freetown did and has.

It would be a massive squat--and with the proper execution and diplomacy it could be done, especially if one were to convince the government in question that it was innocuous while it built up.

All your points about factories and defense are answered by teamwork--cooperation. Guerillas technically "don't" have access to anything but rocks and sticks. But through teamwork, connections, plans, strategies they "somehow" amass weapons. I don't think it's impossible for a large dedicated force to essentially squat.

The main idea is that there are no borders, no matter how many pieces of paper and memes say there are. If a town builds up in the desert and suddenly encroaches on the "regular" population, chances are itll be too late to just "destroy" the town. It would be a fair experiment nonetheless.

Again, who says it has to be primitive? I can easily see a slightly technologically handicapped (at first) existing. So they wouldn't have state of the art computers, so they wouldn't have thousands of foods to choose from...

Again, I point to the success of Freetown Christiana, which opposed an "army."

[Phalanx]

Maybe you could take a piece of land from Canada, Alaska, or Montana, but i don't think you could create an army to defend yourself. You'll still probably have to pay taxes from that country and buy land. So you'd just be another commune. If you somehow get this to work, I congragulate you, but i have a pessimistic view of this actually occuring.

[NovelGentry]

Yeah, and then in the end you just have to convince them their federal agents and legislative decisions don't affect you and that you are sovereign land and that your workers call all the shots.... good luck.

[Parkbench]

your questions are all valid ones, and in the face of choosing to help another or break off as your own soveriegn state, a true anarchist would probably help the other. But the question is specifically about a practical way to bring about a revolution.

I still believe an organised, dedicated group of people could make it work. It's just a matter of taking it from micro- to macro-scale (not implying that it's an inredibly easy task, just not what you think).

[OleMarxco]

Also, we would invite the poor and homeless to live with us. That would be it. Oh, and the workers of capitalist bloodsuckers should give up their jobs and come live with us. We don't need 'em. I'd give up this decadent lifestyle for that - So we can make our own shit ;)

[bunk]

All power to the soviets!