Oppose Public Indoctrination

[NovelGentry]

Well, in the down time of che-lives, it has come to my attention that a church organization going by the name of "Community Chapel" has found it's way into my local high school (the same high school I went to).

The site reads like a palm card from a funeral home and blabs on about "authentic disciples." Anyway -- if there is anyone else in the Massachusetts area which I have not already talked to, we're taking some action this Sunday at the school itself. You can send me an IM via AOL Instant Messenger: A Real Marxist

I've also decided to link you guys to the info we'll be passing out, which has other URLs in it to more information about similar cases, as well as a link to an essay I wrote about the nature of Cell Churches.

http://www.dotink.org/~gent/content/Filing...net/oppose.html (http://www.dotink.org/~gent/content/FilingCabinet/oppose.html)

The flyer is designed to appeal to a majority of people -- so it's premise is not so much an attack on religion itself as it is an attack on this specific position for religion.

Here's a direct link to the essay too:

http://www.dotink.org/~gent/index.php?SITE...ic%20Facilities (http://www.dotink.org/~gent/index.php?SITER=writing&TEXT=Religion%20in%20Public%20Facilities)

Feel free to respond here with comments or questions about any of this material. Cheers.

[encephalon]

We did a similiar portest at my High School because the Church was handing out flyers pertaining to the Bible Study Club and our local (School-Based) Marxist group wasn't permitted to hand out flyers pertaining to our organization.

That is blatantly against US law. If you're within the U.S., anyhow. Anyone is allowed to pass out anything as long as it doesn't break "obscenity" laws or incite riot. If they wanted to, Nazis could stand across the street from your school and recruit.

I honestly think the idea of an (inter)national atheist (or secularist, even) organization dedicated to passing out literature against churches in High schools and such would be not only a noble idea, but a good one. If anything, it would focus national attention on the matter. Allowing churches to pass out material without opposing groups doing the same is pure indoctination in its simplest form.

[Enragé]

perhaps, but atheists must be vigilant of not becoming as fundamentalist in their beliefs as some religious people are in theirs.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 04:53 PM
perhaps, but atheists must be vigilant of not becoming as fundamentalist in their beliefs as some religious people are in theirs.
hmm yeh, actually that's a good point, personally i think that religous people can be marxist, if there tolerant of other religons.

[bed_of_nails]

I encourage passing out materials. It is hard to get most people to pick up athiestic material, but its still worthwhile to try.

[NovelGentry]

Unfortunately it didn't go. Every supporting member with the exception of Disgustapated (from here) dropped out. Cheers to his support, sadly it seems even those from the town, who I thought cared, simply didn't care enough. That's the kind of crap that's really disheartening.


That is blatantly against US law.

Not completely. The argument for limited public forums (which a school would fall under) would allow certain distinctions to be made, however, when a distinction is made, all sides must be allowed. That is to say, if it becomes an open forum for political debate, any political debate has to be allowed. If it becomes an open forum for religious indoctrination, any religion must be allowed (this is a really scary point, because situations like what's happening at my local school means the school is now an open forum for this kind of crap).

[encephalon]

Not completely. The argument for limited public forums (which a school would fall under) would allow certain distinctions to be made, however, when a distinction is made, all sides must be allowed. That is to say, if it becomes an open forum for political debate, any political debate has to be allowed. If it becomes an open forum for religious indoctrination, any religion must be allowed (this is a really scary point, because situations like what's happening at my local school means the school is now an open forum for this kind of crap).

I would argue that if it becomes an open forum for religious indoctrination, then so too must it be subject to anti-religious indoctrination as well. Although many religious zealots would disagree, I would contend that freedom of religion necessarily includes freedom from religion. It is another side of the same issue. The argument can be made that marxism, in its strictest sense, is a sociological methodology rather than political; indeed, the US government agreed to the distinction repeatedly during the McCarthy era.

[NovelGentry]

I would argue that if it becomes an open forum for religious indoctrination, then so too must it be subject to anti-religious indoctrination as well.

It DOES become subject to anti-religious indoctrination, but it does not become subject or an open forum for all indoctrination. That is my point.


I would contend that freedom of religion necessarily includes freedom from religion.

As would I, and if you read the essay I linked to in the orignal post, you'll very much see this upheld as a reason for keeping it OUT.


The argument can be made that marxism, in its strictest sense, is a sociological methodology rather than political; indeed, the US government agreed to the distinction repeatedly during the McCarthy era.

Maybe... but it's difficult to consider religion, which in itself upholds something beyond socialogical methodology (granted we believe it to be mere superstition) to only be a socialogical methodology.

You could preach atheism, but atheism alone is not Marxism. Legally speaking such a decision as to allow Marxist indoctrination in opposition to religious indoctrination would be left up to a judge, but if determined solely on a balance of ideological though, equating Marxism to an opposition of religion is impossible. Atheism, yes, and it would be extremely difficult for anyone to justify why say... Christianity... can be preached and why Atheism could not, but far less difficult, to shoot down Marxism.

[Domingo]

Of course. :)

[RedAnarchist]

Religion should stay well away from schools. If people wants to have areligion, they shouldnt force others to have that religion also. Most people of religious persuasion were brought up as that by their parents, so most were indoctrinated from the minute they were born, so we should keep it away from children so that they arent drowned in religious ideas.