Osama Tapes: FACT OR FICTION - Comments?

[Marxist1848]

These pictures where taken from different Osama Tapes!
Take a look.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_binl.jpg
normal osama.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/confirmosama2.jpg
normal osama.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/latestosama.gif
Normal osama(latest tape)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/binfakevb.jpg
Osama portayed in controversial video
doesnt look anything like the real osama. It hard to see while video is playing. but easy to see when its still photos.
lemme kow what you think.
there are more sites on this with more photos...post em if you have em!

[Mazdak]

I have seen those tapes and been saying that since the tapes were released

[Deamon]

Yeah and why would he even make a video tape of himself celebrating?

[Lefty]

umm...me no know. But why would the U.S fake a tape? Its not going to persuade any more people.

[Mazdak]

no, it justifies invading afghanistan because taht is where he is.

[suffianr]

They are all fakes. Osama never claimed responsibilty for the Sept. 11 attack on the Twin Towers. This is a US propaganda initiative to generate & sustain a "trial by the media".

[Nateddi]

Its scary, I am starting to believe more and more into this conspiracy shit. Ive read about that, it makes a shitload of sense :[

[suffianr]

Unfortunately, conspiracy theories can be neither proven nor validated. But think about this, Nateddi, who benefits the most out of this so-called "war against terror"? Who makes a quick buck, who consolidates global influence in South East Asia, and who gets to exert dominance and control? It's not merely a muscle-flexing exercise, it's goes deeper than spending billions of dollars just to intimidate the Arabs and scare a few Afghans out of their little foxholes.

[Nateddi]

exactly my point, suffianr!

the motive makes me go closer to believing the conspiracy theory. if i didn't have a motive to believe in, the theories would be bunk.

[Edelweiss]

I don't belive in any conspiracy theories. Maybe the CIA had some idea what could happen and didn't prevented the S11 attacks, but I really don't think that the CIA planned and executed the attacks, neither did the Mossad. Most conpiracy theories are reactionary bullshit such as the Jewish conspiracy or the Freemason conspiracy theory.

[Nateddi]

i don't believe the whole thing was planned, but it doesnt surprise me that a lot is being manipulated and changed to suit the governments needs; such as the possibility of a false tape, etc.

[j]

I'm not a believer in the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I just think that Bush and Co. are capitalizing on the attacks to promote their own agenda.

j

[Conghaileach]

from j:
I just think that Bush and Co. are capitalizing on the attacks to promote their own agenda.

That in itself could be considered a conspiracy theory.

[suffianr]

Nateddi, no one says it was planned. But there's just something that's not right here. Every single thing seems to be happening like clockwork. There are such things as contingency plans, pre-planned policy outlines, and emergency responses to external threats, but this is more like "Wag the Dog" than the Cuban Misslie Crisis. :)

[Xvall]

Let's not forget. Before 9/11; A diplomat at a meeting stated that they were 'going to invade afghanistan'. The U.S had plans of invading afghanistan for oil long before 9/11.

Some other Odd Things.

- The first hijacking occured at 7:45 in the morning; an entire hour before the plane actually hit the building. Isn't that a little odd? One would think that the people at the control tower would notice a commercial airliner going hundreds of miles off course, and report it to someone.

- It is an hour and twenty minutes and after the second plane hits, that the president is allegedly informed. He is the president. He should be the first person to hear about this. Think about that.

- Then, he gives no orders. Why? He just listens to a school child talk about his/her pet goat. Why!? It is another 25 minutes before he even makes a statement; even while flight 77 is making a bee-line for Washington DC. The Air Crews are supposed to be trained to scramble within minutes. Why did it take HOURS?

Those are just a few MAJOR things that people don't seem to want to answer. Show this to the capitalists on the other sections of the board; and no doubt that will claim it is propoganda and a wild conspiracy. But they will not have ANY answers to these quite blatant FACTS that are presented. Just something to think about.

[Mazdak]

Did anyone niotice how many "sudden" war movies just suddenly showed up on screen aonly a month or so after the WTC incident. Black Hawk Down, i never heard of the movie until right after Sept. 11 and the same with "We were soldiers" with Mel Gibson.

I am starting to believe in these "wag the Dog" style theories.

[mujer revolucionaria]

I have heard the Jewish theory behind the 9/11 attacks.....though not the Freemason theory that Malte spoke of......what is the thought on that one?

[canikickit]

He wasn't talking about conspiracy theories regarding the eleventh of September. He meant those conspiracies in general. What is the Jewish conspiracy about Sept. 11th? even though I don't really want to hear.

[vodun]

Threads like this make it too easy for "capitalists" or other detractors to discredit the wackos on this site. Maybe you should hide this shit on your "lefties only" forum to avoid the horrible PR. I don't know where to start on these pathetic examples of proof. Give me the best example...

[canikickit]

I don't understand any of this Its all horseshit as far as I can see.

[Marxist1848]

canikickit....
go away.
you are worthless.

[suffianr]

Vodun, who's talking about proof? There is none. Conspiracies cannot be proven. But what's worrying is that neither can fact. What's your opinion on 9/11? And why?

And what the fuck are you worried about PR for? Who the fuck left and made you the fucking stand-up comedian? :)

[Mazdak]

Vodun you little whore, stop infiltrating boards that arent for capitalists. you are full of shit. I'd believe these "wackos" before i guzzle up US propoganda like you you piece of shit. And canikickit, you go away to you are an ass as well.

[canikickit]

sorry for having a contrasting opinion. Does it hurt your small minds to have them ripped open by ideas which do not fit?

[Marxist1848]

I dont care what you have to say.
You have shown me already that you are feeble minded so anything else you say must be.

[canikickit]

so what? I don't care what you're opinion of me is.
How can I respect you when you have shown that you do not fully read my posts?

[Marxist1848]

I would fully read the posts if I wanted to read a load of ignorant bullshit. But i dont so i wont.

[canikickit]

so you can sense that a post is false without reading it. you are truly a hero of our time.

[Marxist1848]

Thank you. I know i am.
I have read your previous posts and they are all full of bullshit. Totally and completely ignorant and pathetic. So i choose not to agirvate myself by reading anymore of this horseshit.

[canikickit]

not at all.

[Marxist1848]

Completely!!
Absolutely fully!!
Full of crap. maybe you name should be "canishutthefuckup"
Because you should!

[Conghaileach]

Can the two of you calm down? Does a difference of opinion really have to descend into name-calling?

[RedRevolutionary87]

when we look at september 11th we must look at who profited most, was it osama? no, hes all hiding out and shit now and being chased and the muslims are more fucked than ever. was it the taliban? no they got removed from power. who was it then? isreal and the usa, now they can use the terrorrist excuse to root out any political resistance, bush had next to zero support, now its almost 100%, israel can do whatever the fuk they want to the palestinians as long as they call them terrorrists, and finally the world trade center was getting old and there were already plans made to demolish it and make a new one, but that would cost a whole fuck load of money, so instead they crashed a few planes for cheap and let the insurance company pay for it, oh ya and oil prices fell off.

[Marxist1848]

Wow.
great way to look at it red rev.
and a difference of opinion is not what we have. I have a fact. He has a falsity.

[canikickit]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 12:14 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Wow.
I have a fact. He has a falsity.

its easy too see yourself as being always right.

[Ymir]

It's also easy to criticize people. What is your point?

[canikickit]

what is MY point?
my original point was that I think this thread about Spet. 11th conspiriacies is bullshit (or horseshit, I'm easy either way).
my point after that is that my "falsity" is really a matter of opinion and this idiot is just reacting and disagreeing with me probably because we have had disagreements before.

It is very easy to critisise people especially when they are stupid fuckers.

what is your point?

[vodun]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 6:47 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
when we look at september 11th we must look at who profited most, was it osama? no, hes all hiding out and shit now and being chased and the muslims are more fucked than ever.Just because Osama or other muslim extremists fucked themselves doesn't mean they weren't responsible. Is that the only reasoning you use? The fact that you think the U.S. government planned the whole thing clearly shows that you're delusional, mentally disturbed, or just very simple. If you were just a tiny bit smarter, you wouldn't embarrass yourself in public. Then again, it's only "Che Lives", so who's gonna see it?

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:48 am on Aug. 23, 2002
Did anyone niotice how many "sudden" war movies just suddenly showed up on screen aonly a month or so after the WTC incident. Black Hawk Down, i never heard of the movie until right after Sept. 11 and the same with "We were soldiers" with Mel Gibson.


What is even stranger is the news stories out of no where about Afganistan and the Taliban prior to 9/11. I want to fark and was checking their archives and there are about 5 story links in just a month prior to 9/11 to just the Taliban. It is strange, some were about what the Taliban were making illegal like neckties, CDs the Internet, but what was stranger was the message boards. People were talking trash about this country that they had never even heard of prior. A little pre-war propaganda if you ask me.

Taliban smash bottles of alcohol: Tue August 28, 2001

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...pl?IDLink=40950 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=40950)

Sun August 26, 2001:
Taliban leader bans Internet use in Afghanistan
http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=40218

Tue July 31, 2001: Taliban ban computer discs
http://sp.reserve.co.uk/news/story.php?id=...995&af=uf240701 (http://sp.reserve.co.uk/news/story.php?id=995&af=uf240701)
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...pl?IDLink=32364 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=32364)

07-19-01 Taliban bans lipstick, nail polish, and chess
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...pl?IDLink=29576 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=29576)

Fri July 13, 2001: Afghanistan's ruling Taliban movement has banned the use of the internet in the country to stop access to vulgar, immoral and anti-Islamic material
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...pl?IDLink=28436 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=28436)

May 30, 2001: Taliban could be in deep crap
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/05/27/6040.html
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...pl?IDLink=19988 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=19988)

Those are just a few, with links to the news stories if they still exist and the chat room comments.
I still remember when the media was saying it was Taliban, I went, "Oh those guys in afganistan, hey wait why do I know that?" Its not like there are not a tons of other countries with really strict or strange governments out there to make the news all the time.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

I remember the Pentagon declaring that they will "provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign media organisations" in an effort "to influence public sentiment and policy makers in both friendly and unfriendly countries."

About two years ago I remember reading somewhere that Usama Bin Laden does not even wear a digital watch for fear of being located by military satellites. Nevertheless, nowadays we are being bombarded by near-daily footages of the condemned Bin Laden hatching up some evil plan with his loyal henchmen in their mysterious hide-out. I guess that we are faced with two viable options to explain this sudden fondness of technology that Bin Laden has demonstrated:

a) Bin Laden is trying to come up with his own show to rival the Osbournes on MTV (I mean come on, who wouldn't find that entertaining; the world's most evil man sharing his hardship as well as his most ingenious evil plans with the rest of us; Ozzy, step aside, this is the real deal).

B) Most of these tapes are propaganda material that the Pentagon is using to advocate the war on Iraq, because as we heard most recently, there are numerous senior Al Qaeda figures hiding out in Iraq, with the knowledge and consent of that other evil guy in the Middle East (Saddam

[marxistdisciple]

The way I see it,is as a million questions with very few answers. The biggest out of place is the attitude of the military in preventing the disaster. I heard they took 45 minutes to scramble (I believe this was after the first plane hit.) not only that, but when the world trade centre was built, FAA regulations were enacted;

!) If a plane flies within 12 miles of the building, out of normal flight path it will be warned to back off
2) If the plane reaches 5 miles, they will threaten to shoot it down
3) Within 3 miles the plane can legally be shot down

None of these regulations were enacted on the day....where were the military? They have jets on standby very nearby, why didn't they scamble? why did the president take so long to be informed? Why did a plane headed to San Francisco end up in new york over an hour later, before anyone did anything?

So many questions. So few answers. Of course an investigation would solve this, but why hasn't there been one? (yet another question)

The trouble with conspiracy theories is that the best ones are always based enough on truth to warrant people's fears. Why shouldn't we ask these questions? I do not believe it is unpatriotic or anti-american to criticise the goverment. they were at least partly at fault through inaction and negligence, and should be held to account as such.

[vodun]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 12:49 am on Aug. 26, 2002

!) If a plane flies within 12 miles of the building, out of normal flight path it will be warned to back off
2) If the plane reaches 5 miles, they will threaten to shoot it down
3) Within 3 miles the plane can legally be shot down

Please cite the specific reference.

[RedRevolutionary87]

Quote: from vodun on 11:28 pm on Aug. 24, 2002

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 6:47 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
when we look at september 11th we must look at who profited most, was it osama? no, hes all hiding out and shit now and being chased and the muslims are more fucked than ever.Just because Osama or other muslim extremists fucked themselves doesn't mean they weren't responsible. Is that the only reasoning you use? The fact that you think the U.S. government planned the whole thing clearly shows that you're delusional, mentally disturbed, or just very simple. If you were just a tiny bit smarter, you wouldn't embarrass yourself in public. Then again, it's only "Che Lives", so who's gonna see it?



no it means i see outside the propaganda. terrorrists usualy dont fuk themselves without gaining anything, they didnt gain anything, secondly why wouldnt the usa do it? give me one good reason.

[Marxist1848]

And another thing.
This "Controversial Video" (not the one in my original message) that the U$ said they couldnt release because it might conatain "secret messages" ...bullshit.... was eventually shown anyway. I think this little show they put on with the "secret messages" was just something to help aid the desire to see thses tapes first of all. And second of all, this made Osama and his croney terrorists seem like some secret spy agency with secret codes. All aiding in the suspicion of they average american citizen. It6 sorta gave them the feeling that these men were unstoppable and should be elimenated.

[Son of Scargill]

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/obl-vi...o-makingof.html (http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/obl-video-makingof.html)

[Marxist1848]

oh my god.
thats funny.
And i have always questoned the response of the military throughout this.
I fwe can have planes up in the air from then until now, why couldt these planes (that are supposed to be always on standby) get up and shoot down the planes heading for the towers???
These planes (passenger plane) were scheduled flights and had a flight path. Once these planes were off the flight path...what was said between the pilot and the base?

[suffianr]

Yes, it's quite incredible that so many irregularities exist, and yet, much remains unanswered. The best thing is, we will probably never know...

And Vodun, stop being Mr. SmartyPants and go look up some civil aviation websites or something...Citing references is up to individual preference, if you are so curious, you'd best check it out yourself.

[Anonymous]

This Osama thing reminds me of a photo that the soviets did in the end of WWII claiming to be the bodie of hitler dead, the photo was fake, and its intention was to rise the troops morale, and i think that after the video with osama saying that he planed the whole thing many people that knew that lakguage said that he wasnt sayng that!

[vodun]

Quote: from suffianr on 6:58 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
Yes, it's quite incredible that so many irregularities exist, and yet, much remains unanswered. The best thing is, we will probably never know...

And Vodun, stop being Mr. SmartyPants and go look up some civil aviation websites or something...Citing references is up to individual preference, if you are so curious, you'd best check it out yourself.
Individual preference? How about "I don't have a reference so I made some dumb shit up?" If he has a reference, why doesn't he cite it? Um, because he doesn't HAVE one. I know much more about civil and military aviation than any of the teenagers on this site. Thanks anyway.

[munkey soup]

Vodun is right. If you're gonna quote statistics, cite your source, or else your information is gonna be questionable. Sure its a matter of personal preference, but if you don't cite your source, than anyone looking at your info doesn't have to take it as fact.

[suffianr]

Sure, it's pretty simple. If I make a statement that involves facts and figures, it's entirely up to me provide the source. I don't HAVE to do anything here, this is a forum, not my college assignment. It doesn't have to be spick and span MLA/APA format, Times New Roman, 12 pt. In the event that I do not disclose a source, well, it only serves to discredit or devalue my opinions. It won't affect you or the weakness or strengths of your arguments, so, why are you so hung up on this, Vodun?

By the way:

"I know much more about civil and military aviation than any of the teenagers on this site"

So, buddy, what's YOUR source? :)

[Anonymous]

NO its all lie Osama dint planed the 11-6 since he is the real USA president!


http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/president_bin_laden.jpg

hehehehehehehe

[Anonymous]

ups.................
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/president_bin_laden.jpg

[vodun]

Quote: from suffianr on 3:53 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
Sure, it's pretty simple. If I make a statement that involves facts and figures, it's entirely up to me provide the source. I don't HAVE to do anything here, this is a forum, not my college assignment. It doesn't have to be spick and span MLA/APA format, Times New Roman, 12 pt. In the event that I do not disclose a source, well, it only serves to discredit or devalue my opinions. It won't affect you or the weakness or strengths of your arguments, so, why are you so hung up on this, Vodun?

By the way:

"I know much more about civil and military aviation than any of the teenagers on this site"

So, buddy, what's YOUR source? :)
Not hung up - just pointing out that you had the opportunity, with your argument, to provide actual evidence. Not an opinion or theory, but actual black and white print. You chose not to, I suspect, because you don't have the reference. But I'm not losing sleep. I was just interested because I'm in the aviation field, and thought I might learn something. Bad on me for coming here to learn, though. Your source?

[canikickit]

Quote: from vodun on 3:13 am on Aug. 29, 2002

but actual black and white print.



what's your source on this?....
Its really more of grey and white....