stalinist youth - scary.............

[new democracy]

i saw that allot of stalinist parties(include maoist) have youth organisations. dont you think it is kind of scary that the youth is learning to worship mao or stalin? the idea of stalinist youth kind of scare me.

[Mazdak]

If there can be a Hitler youth and such, why no stalin youth?

[Ymir]

Papa Stalin will get some discipline in those punk kids ;)

[kidicarus20]

LOL. they are probably just being funny. "stalinist youth" lol..

Stalin had a lot of good policies and people were generally happier understalin than under capitalist russia.

[Turnoviseous]

Quote: from kidicarus20 on 6:32 am on Aug. 22, 2002

Stalin had a lot of good policies and people were generally happier understalin than under capitalist russia.

I think that Marxist revolutionaries were not happier under Stalin.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from kidicarus20 on 6:32 am on Aug. 22, 2002
Stalin had a lot of good policies and people were generally happier understalin than under capitalist russia.

Could you please name these policies?

I don't think people were happier, considering his "policies" killed over 20 million people and the rest were living in fear.

(Edited by Mac OS Revolutionary at 8:03 am on Aug. 28, 2002)

[Cassius Clay]

Mac Revolutionary I would be interested to know where you get this '20 million' figure from? And as for the rest of the population living in fear, well unless we/you/anybody on this board actually lived there then you cannot say the whole population lived in fear.

As for good policies, well I would call them sane policies. Russia had to industrialise (sorry cant spell) at some stage whether it be under White or Red government. As Stalin himself said 'We are 100 to 150 years behind the advanced countries of the West, we make this difference up in ten years or they crush us'.

[Rob]

What loss of lives justifies industrialization? What loss of lives justifies the maintenance of an overly authoritarian, pseudo-socialist state?

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

"I would be interested to know where you get this '20 million' figure from?"

Numerous test books, web sites and even people on this board . Quite frankly I believe this number to be much higher.

" And as for the rest of the population living in fear, well unless we/you/anybody on this board actually lived there then you cannot say the whole population lived in fear."

If one day my neighbor "disappeared" I'd be pretty damn scared. People under Stalin were kept in line by fear, thats how he controlled them.

"As for good policies, well I would call them sane policies. Russia had to industrialise (sorry cant spell) at some stage whether it be under White or Red government. As Stalin himself said 'We are 100 to 150 years behind the advanced countries of the West, we make this difference up in ten years or they crush us'."

Was it required to kill so many people?

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from Mac OS Revolutionary on 10:14 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
"I would be interested to know where you get this '20 million' figure from?"

Numerous test books, web sites and even people on this board . Quite frankly I believe this number to be much higher.




I probably oppose stalinism as much as the next guy but 20 million?!? frankly that's a lot of people. I couldn't even believe the 6 million in the holocaust. I'm afraid this is just a number that I can't quite take your word for, sorry. Do you have a source by chance?

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from man in the red suit on 1:40 am on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from Mac OS Revolutionary on 10:14 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
"I would be interested to know where you get this '20 million' figure from?"

Numerous test books, web sites and even people on this board . Quite frankly I believe this number to be much higher.




I probably oppose stalinism as much as the next guy but 20 million?!? frankly that's a lot of people. I couldn't even believe the 6 million in the holocaust. I'm afraid this is just a number that I can't quite take your word for, sorry. Do you have a source by chance?

I do mean in-directly, through famine caused by his collectivization. I'll try and post a source a bit later.

btw Stalin Did kill more people than Hitler

EDIT: Here is an internet source
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm

(Edited by Mac OS Revolutionary at 8:00 am on Aug. 29, 2002)

[ComradeJunichi]

But weren't the people who were killed during World War II, included in this 20 million? Not only the civilians killed by Stalin.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 8:53 am on Aug. 29, 2002
But weren't the people who were killed during World War II, included in this 20 million? Not only the civilians killed by Stalin.
No. Stalin didn't cause WWII

[Cassius Clay]

Rob all death is a tragedy, but any Socialist Leader would of had to implement the collectivisation at some point. And with the growing threat from Fascist Germany it had to be done, remember Russia in WW1 had something resembling a 15th Century Fuedal Kingdom with bits of capatalism here and there. Also it is worth remembering that it was far from a one sided fight. Thousands of Red Army, Party officials and innocents caught in between lost their lifes to armed Kulak risings and terriorism.

Put it this way tommorow you wake up as Lenin in December 1918 do you proccedd with 'War Communism' a policy which will kill around thousands of peasatns (well there wouldn't be no war if it weren't for those dam westerners). But save the workers from starving to death and feed the Red Army and ultimatly lead to the creation of the Soviet Union?

Mac Revolutionary! Good point about reading the enemy, however I wouldn't describe Orwell as the 'Enemy'. For he was as anti-capatalist as he was anti-Soviet. His main 'Hatred' (sounds strong but I stick by it) of the Soviet Union and Stalin in particular appears to stem from the SCW when he had a bad experience with Soviet officers who were fighting for the Republicans. I wont go into the details of the SCW but remember the only government in the WORLD who aided the workers and peasants in Spain was the Soviet Union.

BTW interesting to think what kind of society Orwell would of set up if he came to power in any country.

Man in the Red Suit, make no mistake Hitler killed at least 6 million in just the Holocaust. Which did not just include Jews (This is not meant to sound horrible but the suffering of the Jews has kind of overshadowed the other victims) but Gays, Poles, Slavs, Gypsies, Marxists and Mentally disabled.

The evidence to proof this is/was in the Nazi archives, the number of Jews who were in Europe in 1939 and the number left in 1945, survivors accounts, photographic and film evidence and various other sources such as speeches from Nazi leaders and officials as well as from guards themselves.

Whilst in the Soviet Union the now opened archives reveal that something like (sorry I cant remember the pacific number) 800,000 people died in the Soviet Prison system between 1934 and 1953. The majority of those between 1938 and 1945 (I think!). This is for all reasons such as suicides, murder by other prisoners, discease (remember this is 60 years ago, they don't have the medical knowledge that we have today) and executions.

How many are on Death roe in America?

[Cassius Clay]

Sorry Mac Revolutionary I have fucked up, all that stuff about Orwell was supposed. oh never mind, sorry.