Golden Hello for New HP CEO

[redstar2000]

HP Giving Hurd $20 Million 'Golden Hello'

Mark V. Hurd, who takes over tomorrow as chief executive of troubled computer and printer maker Hewlett-Packard Co., is widely viewed as the antithesis of the celebrity chief executive, a nuts-and-bolts manager with little interest in grabbing headlines for himself.

But judging by his new employment agreement, HP's board appears to view Hurd as a superstar at least on par with the firm's formerly highflying chief executive, Carly Fiorina. The board forced Fiorina out in February for not fixing the company as quickly as it wanted.

According to the employment agreement, Hurd will receive cash, stock and perks worth at least $20 million for simply walking in the door at HP's Palo Alto, Calif., headquarters.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/w...14484_2005mar30 (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20050331/tc_washpost/a14484_2005mar30)

A golden hello for Hurd; and it will be golden showers for HP's employees when the layoffs start.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Individual]

Redstar, if you really only had any idea.

I'll just let you shit and giggle yourself over this one.

Remember, I haven't always been unemployed.

[t_wolves_fan]

I actually have to agree with RedStar on this. The continual rise in CEO pay at a rate well above that of average workers is completely disgusting.

[redstar2000]

Didn't take long, did it?


Originally posted by BBC
Hewlett-Packard cuts 14,500 staff

Hewlett-Packard is to lay off about one in ten of its workers as part of its long-awaited restructuring.

The US computer and IT giant said it planned to cut 14,500 jobs over the next 18 months in an attempt to save $1.9bn (£1.1bn) a year.

The announcement is the first major strategic move by its new boss, Mark Hurd.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/4696567.stm

Surprised?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[TheKingOfMercy]

Bah, They should be paid relative to their work, if its a ten hour, high stress job, then high pay, if not, lower pay.


Laying off one in ten workers... To keep the company intact and operating, and everyone else in jobs...

Pro Summum Bonum ?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by TheKingOfMercy
Laying off one in ten workers... To keep the company intact and operating, and everyone else in jobs...

Yeah...especially "Hurd the Turd"! :angry:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[TheKingOfMercy]

wouldn't sacking the chief, despite his pay packet, be a little counter-productive ? there aren't too many people capable of managing a multi-nat corporation.

Like I said though, if you take it from the people still with jobs, that cost cutting was indeed "pro summum bonum" (for the greater good - they don't loose their jobs, and suppliers etc don't start to have problems)

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 02:46 PM
wouldn't sacking the chief, despite his pay packet, be a little counter-productive ? there aren't too many people capable of managing a multi-nat corporation.

Like I said though, if you take it from the people still with jobs, that cost cutting was indeed "pro summum bonum" (for the greater good - they don't loose their jobs, and suppliers etc don't start to have problems)
greater good for who? the company so they save more money. what have the people who didnt loose their jobs gained?

[TheKingOfMercy]

They kept their jobs. IF the company needs to cut costs to stay in existence, some jobs have to go. Others thusly keep their jobs. see the logic ?

If the company was allowed to flounder, and die, 140,000 people would loose their jobs, as opposed to 14,000. The numbers make sense. It's harsh I know.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 03:01 PM
They kept their jobs. IF the company needs to cut costs to stay in existence, some jobs have to go. Others thusly keep their jobs. see the logic ?

If the company was allowed to flounder, and die, 140,000 people would loose their jobs, as opposed to 14,000. The numbers make sense. It's harsh I know.
now if the companies goal is to save money, its logical they would pay the ceo less, but they dont. ;)

[Publius]

Tell me, why pay him so much if he does so little?

Just to perpetuate the capitalist system of illogical repression of the poor?

[TheKingOfMercy]

Fair point nate :)

[red_orchestra]

The corperate world totally sucks! We all know it
Luckily their is a growing resistamce movement :) ...kickass dudes
http://www.everyscreen.com/photos/Islamicommunism_02.jpg

[TheKingOfMercy]

Some kid with his che-brand scarf is your image of the 'resistance' ?

Which resistance movement would this be ?

[Individual]

The ICanType200WordsaMinuteOnaWebForum Revolution!

Actually we're recruiting right now, we need new mods and admins.

Email our leader: [email protected]

Anyone else play some computer game called -- Siberian Fox? Redstar could use new members in his clan:

http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2 (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20&sid=6ed4a78826f57f8262fca296f445e6e2)

Pitching ball with good ole' Che on third, eh big boy?

In regard to my post months ago:


Redstar, if you really only had any idea.

I'll just let you shit and giggle yourself over this one.

Remember, I haven't always been unemployed.

Carly Fiorina, HP's lovely leer-jet flying ex-CEO, boy wasn't she great?

Anyone, everyone, must be better than this, "Hurd the Turd"?

Right?!

[viva le revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 09:10 PM
The ICanType200WordsaMinuteOnaWebForum Revolution!

Actually we're recruiting right now, we need new mods and admins.

Email our leader: [email protected]

Anyone else play some computer game called -- Siberian Fox? Redstar could use new members in his clan:

http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2 (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20&sid=6ed4a78826f57f8262fca296f445e6e2)

Pitching ball with good ole' Che on third, eh big boy?

In regard to my post months ago:


Redstar, if you really only had any idea.

I'll just let you shit and giggle yourself over this one.

Remember, I haven't always been unemployed.

Carly Fiorina, HP's lovely leer-jet flying ex-CEO, boy wasn't she great?

Anyone, everyone, must be better than this, "Hurd the Turd"?

Right?!
Well what's your club, the letscanhisasssoourstockcangoupaquarterofapoint club
e-mail: [email protected]

[viva le revolution]

Wouldn't it make more sense to hand over control to the workers who interact with the machinery and processes all day, after they are in a better position to think up ways to improve the running of the company through first-hand experience instead of some guy in a cushy office who read it all in book.
I mean you guys always always say that every business needs some sort of ability to adapt to the envoirnment, how is that possible through rigid learning from textbooks in harvard business school? or some corporate guy in the head office who hasn't in all probability hasn't even seen any of his machines in real life?

[jasontkennedy]

Wouldn't it make more sense to hand over control to the workers who interact with the machinery and processes all day, after they are in a better position to think up ways to improve the running of the company through first-hand experience instead of some guy in a cushy office who read it all in book.

I dunno about that. People who are operating the machines may not have a knack for administration and financial dispensation! There are people better qualified, probably. I mean it is possable that the workers could refine production directly, but I'd think they'd do a terrible job of sourcing raw materials, distribution, etc, etc. This is especially true of keeping a company afloat when it exists in a capitalist economy! I think it was Tony cliff who said (or maybe he quoted) that men have natural superiors, and that even in communism those natural superiors would float to the top (metphorically). He wasn't implying that they then gain control in any way, nor are they impowered to oppress, but simply recognizing that not everyone has the same natural inclinations and preferences. For example, I am a carpenter and I love working with my hands. I probably have the mind to help manage the company that I work for, but for me that work is undesirable, even though it pays better. In a communist society someone still has to bring in and manage materials (ie chemicals, laminant. glue, board, router bits, etc.), installations, things of that nature. In a communist society, I am still not going to be the guy ordering and managing dispensation of materials, it is not what I like to do. I would still be crafting things. I don't think that when Marx implyed that the means of production go to the proletariat that he was necessarily implying that every other sort of position be abolished. Now, I don't think that these positions would be remotely like they are today, but some manifestation of these duties are necessary in any economy.

[jasontkennedy]

Just to perpetuate the capitalist system of illogical repression of the poor?

Publius, I'd think you'd draw a better conclusion than that. The idea isn't to just simply repress the poor. The idea is that if one (the bourgeois) wants to keep his means of production, one must maintain competitiveness in a free capitalist market. In a market where companies A, B, & C are competing dierctly, many times the only way to get an advantage is to cut labor cost, or to increase production output, without increasing every other category (increase margin of profit). The latter can be done by refining the production steps, or sourcing cheaper raw materials (but this doesn't last long, the other companies will be right on your heals). In fact this latter category is exactly what has happened to HP. They are probably the 20th big computer company to belly up in 10 years (that # could be an exaggeration, but is immaterial) from brutal competition. I think that this point could be explored more thoroughly, but not just yet.

The other half to why the working (struggling) classes are made to struggle is that it keeps them working 40 hours a week. The concept is to pay a person rougly what it costs to cover their head and support a family, and not much else, to maintain their dependancy on the employer for life's basic needs. The worker doesn't work 40hr at some job he likely hates because he wants to. He works 40 hours because he has to. Most jobs don't even kick in benefits until you are "full time", and I think that there are special tax benfits for a "full time worker" (family men back me up on this one), but I could be wrong on the second point. Either way, people in this free market are pretty much coerced into doing stupid work that they would rather not to earn not enough so that they can survive without being a social parasite. This is not a system of dignity to the working man, it is a system of decrease the bottom line so that some fat cat share holders can get fatter. This point is ossified by the mere existance of things like corporate welfare, and wealthy welfare.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by jasontkennedy
I think it was Tony Cliff who said (or maybe he quoted) that men have natural superiors, and that even in communism those natural superiors would float to the top (metaphorically).

The old slave-owning aristocrat Thomas Jefferson also commented on this suggestion.

Something along the lines of "the idea that most men are born with saddles on their backs while a few are born already booted and spurred to ride them is happily passing away."

Yeah, pretty ironic. The so-called "revolutionary Trotskyist" eagerly anticipates his chance to "float to the top"...and an over-optimistic agrarian reactionary has the more progressive view.

Here's the dirty little secret of class society: there are no such people as ones who are "born to rule".

You may be born to be a terrific carpenter, an outstanding baseball player, a world-class physicist, whatever.

But no one is born to be a ***Leader***.

Guys like "Hurd the Turd" are lucky winners in the casino of capital...period!

Hurd had a winning ticket worth $20 million...and 14,000 HP employees are the unlucky losers. As Engels pointed out in 1845: The laws of capitalism are the laws of chance.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[jasontkennedy]

Yeah, pretty ironic. The so-called "revolutionary Trotskyist" eagerly anticipates his chance to "float to the top"...and an over-optimistic agrarian reactionary has the more progressive view.

Oh jeez, I knew I should have supplied more context. I think the jist of what cliff was saying was that people gravitated toward their own pedilection. Come on redstar, think waaaayyyyyyy back to highschool. The classroom setting wsa dynamic with personality. Cliff, (or myself) isn't implying that implying that one personality is more valuable, but rather that some are better than others at mathematics, public speaking, sciences, rational theories, etc. Sort of the idea of one body, many parts. Not everyone is a mouth, nor would everone make a good mouth. I can remember quite a few people who were devilishly shy, they didn't strike me as potentially great for a duty that includes charisma. Please make the distinction that I am not willing these people be isolate from the opportunity, I am saying that by virtue of their personality, they will very likely gravitate toward something more suite to them. That is more along the lines of the context here.


Here's the dirty little secret of class society: there are no such people as ones who are "born to rule".

I agree 100%. I don't believe that one should have the empowerment to coerce another. However, there is a necessity for people with administrative skills. This can easily be demonstrated by looking at the example of my job. The problem in capitalism with this "administrative dept" is that there is a denoted authority over the workers that accompanies this position. The reason is that the bean counters want to profit, and it lands on the administrativly savy the see this occur. It is then logical that this administrative sort is imputed with the means to generate profit, and that requires power, or authority. In the modern capitalist society, the administrative position is boss. In the communist society, he becomes more of a liaison between production guilds. IE if the car plant need metal, and paint, this administrator places orders with necessary producers, internally notifies shipping receiving of needed inventory adjustments, etc, etc. Not just anyone is suited for this. Some are superior to others in that position, and no level of will can reconcile that differential. The distinction in communisim is that this sort of position doesn't yeild the sort of antagonistic favor that it does in capitalism. The results of the produced goods are still shared according to needs, and then any descretionary surplus equally shared, or something like that. (but on a communal, or state level)


But no one is born to be a ***Leader***.

again, agreed. See above. There is an absolutely embedded connotation that follows "administrative", and that is "leader". The two are seperable.


Guys like "Hurd the Turd" are lucky winners in the casino of capital...period!

Yeah, and it eats at me every single day. Not so much because I am in abject poverty, but because of his amassed wealth many will (end up in abject poverty). In america, and even moreso in other countries where we exploit labor.

[red_orchestra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 07:56 PM
Some kid with his che-brand scarf is your image of the 'resistance' ?

Which resistance movement would this be ?
Whats your way of resisting the corperate world...or do you ever think about such things. So many lemmings out their....maybe your just one of those guys who doesn't give a fuck.

Sad, just fuckin' sad.

[Individual]

Soo.. No word on your literal, armchair revolution, Redstar?

What's all this I am hearing about your Siberian Fox escapades?

I mean, are you any good? As much time as you spend on the computer, I bet you are!

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 01:10 PM
Soo.. No word on your literal, armchair revolution, Redstar?

What's all this I am hearing about your Siberian Fox escapades?

I mean, are you any good? As much time as you spend on the computer, I bet you are!

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)

Redstar and Siberian Fox, the game (http://siberianfox.com/profile.php?mode=vi...2fca296f445e6e2)
I will repost here my response to your inexplicable PM (Why would you think anyone cares about this?):


Dude, what the fuck are you talking about?

You think redstar2000 is the only redstar out there? The red star has been a communist symbol for over a century, do you think someone playing some game related to Communists wouldn't choose the name "red star"?

For Christ's sake, stop wasting my time.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Whats your way of resisting the corperate world

*YAWN*

I bet you would've never thought that maybe....just maybe the "oppressive corporate world" contributes more good than harm to humanity.

Typical communists, always looking at the negative side of things and never the positive.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Individual
Soo.. No word on your literal, armchair revolution, Redstar?

I have no idea what you are babbling about; I have not been to that board in several years and certainly do not play online games there or anyplace else.

I have already warned you about spamming this board with irrelevant posts.

Keep it up and you will be banned!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[JKP]

Workers are perfectly capable of managing their affairs without bosses. It happened in Spain. And Now it's happening in Argentina.


Here is a documentary on the subject:
http://www.nfb.ca/webextension/thetake/

The boss may need the workers, but the workers don't need him.

[jasontkennedy]

JKP, please understand I am making a destinction between a boss and a co-ordinator/administrator. I was making the point that materials don't magically appear on shelves.

Also, I just went to your link. This film ought to be great. We need more of this fabian socialist stuff visible for the public.

[JKP]

Regarding administrative duty, its role changes dramatically when it comes to means of production that are democratically owned. Input/Output, resource allocation and produce distrobution are handled through the collective. While it does result in quite a bit of bickering, the results are worth it. "The Take" illustrates some of this.

I think you are referring to administrative roles that require an administrator. I personally cannot think of a workplace that needs one. However, for the few jobs that may require an adminstrative role, the first thing that the workers should do, is see if the workplace can operate without one. Since bureaucracy is stifling, workers should use their newfound freedom to restructure their work environments as to avoid such positions. (and gain improved efficiency in the process.)

If for some reason an adminstrator is absolutely, 100% required, then that postition should be highly scrutinized. The workers should be able to recall Its occupier at any moment. Also the responsibilties the adminitrator has should be outlined very specifically. Great care must be taken because it could very well result in a return to capitalism or degenerate into a "red bureaucracy".

However, as I said, workers are capable of managing their own affairs. History proved that fact both in the past and the present.

EDIT: When I refer to an administrator, I don't mean someone who has the final authority(No one should have that). His duty would much more have in common with an advisory role. To ensure that goods end up on the shelves, as you put it.