Russian Federation and Byelorussia are going to UNITE

[Revolution Hero]

The president of the Russian Federation Putin and the president of Byelorussia Republic Lukashenko met recently. They discussed the possibility of the creation of the new united state. Byelorussian government eagers to join the Russian Federation and Putin seems not to be against their initiative.
Different versions of the union were discussed at the meeting of the two presidents.
The first one is "the complete union". This means that Russia and Byelorussia will form the one united state, with the one common president, government and parliament. The Constitution of Russian Federation will be the basis of the new state.
The second discussed type of the union is the one which will be built similar to the principles of the European Union.
The referendum , concerning the question of the new union, will be held in spring of 2003 in both republics. If the results is positive, then according to the first version, the elections of the new president and the new parliament will take place in the year 2004.

The president of Byelorussia Lukashenko is known for his anti- american moods. Unlike Ukraine, Byelorussia had never strived for the cooperation with the Western capitalist world. Byelorussia is independent from the Western capital, and prefers pro-russian external politics.
Lukashenko always seemed to be leftist, as Byelorussian economical system is more centralized than the economical systems of the other post-soviet republics.
It is interesting what both of the countries will have in the result of their union. But so far we can be sure, that the world community will see the new union of the two post soviet union republics.
And it is just the beginning.....

[deimos]

i heard that this lukashenko guy is a tyrannic dictature.Is it true or just propaghbanda?

[new democracy]

he is tyrannic dictator. but still, along with russia its the only ex-soviet republic that didnt make laws against minorities.

[Nateddi]

Lukashenko was overwhelmingly elected in September 2001. Over 75% of the vote. I guess that makes your a tyrant. I support his centralised policies and anti-western sentiments.

Election Results (http://www.belarusembassy.org/elections2001/)

yuriandropov, a member here for about a month works for the Bellarussian KGB

(Edited by Nateddi at 3:31 pm on Aug. 19, 2002)

[Conghaileach]

Bellarussian KGB? Is that a good organisation or a bad one?

I know that comment sounds a little simplistic, but does the group work in the interests of the people or is it more of a CIA-style pack of fascists?

(Edited by CiaranB at 3:35 pm on Aug. 19, 2002)

[new democracy]

75%!? nobody get something like in an election!!!! shame election!!!

[Nateddi]

Here is another source (http://www.electionworld.org/belarus.htm)

@cirian

i do not know what your politics are, however if you are a anarcho-communist or anarchist that is anti-military and anti-intelligence agencies, they are obviously evil. If you are not a radical anarchist and a normal person on non-economic issues, they are not bad compared to the CIA.

(Edited by Nateddi at 3:57 pm on Aug. 19, 2002)

[new democracy]

that the official results. that does not mean it is the true will of the people.

[Conghaileach]

from new democracy
75%!? nobody get something like in an election!!!! shame election!!!

Hugo Chavez got 80% of the vote in the Venezuelan election.

[Nateddi]

"The burden of proof is left on he who asserts the positive"

prove that he is hated by his people. i have statistics that he is, you have a strange personal stigma.


(Edited by Nateddi at 12:13 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[new democracy]

not true!!! http://www.electionworld.org/venezuela.htm .

[Nateddi]

what is not true?

chavez was elected by his people. He is still supported by his people.

[new democracy]

first of all he is authoritarian. you cant deny that. and seconed, the k.g.b were very cruel. he create a secret police like the k.g.b. most of the presidents in the former u.s.s.r came from a communist, or some of you will say "communist" backround. he came from an authoritarian backround!!! in practice nobody could be that popular. you have statistics that show official election results that could be a big fake. your statistics show only official election results. about chaves, i did not say that he wasnt elected i said that he didnt get 80% but 59%.

[Mazdak]

I heard Yuriandropov might be coming back sometime in the future. I hope so..

Putin's friendship with bush left me unhappy. I had better expectations for a former KGB person. i know some have said he is just doing this for now to get on good terms with the U$A, but it seems he is quite comfortable as a capitalist.

[Nateddi]

dear mazdak,

ive received an email from lenin about yuri's whearabouts. he will definatly be
on-line again in October-November when they will all be in Russia. for those that don't know, yuriandropov = lenin's uncle.

best wishes

[Edelweiss]

Amnesty International: Belarus human rights records (http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/countries/belarus?OpenView&Start=1&Count=30&Expandall)

[new democracy]

thank you for backing me up malte!!!!

[deimos]

yep, i was right!

[kingbee]

Quote: from Nateddi on 12:16 am on Aug. 20, 2002

for those that don't know, yuriandropov = lenin's uncle.


i wonder if anyone else almost had a heart attack there too.

this lukashenko obviously rigs elections, and seems a corrupt, rigid 80s style soviet leader- but he did order the closing down of the only mcdonalds in favour of a russian style one selling cabagge

[Revolution Hero]

Quote: from new democracy on 2:25 am on Aug. 20, 2002
first of all he is authoritarian. you cant deny that. and seconed, the k.g.b were very cruel. he create a secret police like the k.g.b. most of the presidents in the former u.s.s.r came from a communist, or some of you will say "communist" backround. he came from an authoritarian backround!!! in practice nobody could be that popular. you have statistics that show official election results that could be a big fake. your statistics show only official election results. about chaves, i did not say that he wasnt elected i said that he didnt get 80% but 59%.


KGB type of organizations exist in every state of the world. For example, KGB just changed it's name into Ministerstvo Gosudarstvenoy Bezopasnosti- MGB ( Ministry of the State Defence, not military, but the intelligence organization). It was done by the former president Yeltsin, who is famous for being drunkard. It can be explained by the fear of the past times.

Each leader , who prefers centralized policies is always called to be authoritarian and comes to be a dictator. Then together with Lukashenko , you could put such names as Fidel Castro, Mao and so on.
But, according to the objective information Lukashenko is loved and respected by the citizens of Byelorussia.
What about the statistic, which "proves" that he got less votes as it usually presented, I would definitely say that it is FALSE. This is the part of the informational war of the capitalist west , which supports Byelorussian opposition.

[Edelweiss]

From what I read I can say that human rights violations are far worser in Belarus than in Cuba. There aren't any "disappeared" in Cuba for exapmple.
I agree that the CIA was/is not better than the KGB but please, what does that proof? Nothing!

[Nateddi]

How many governments has the KGB overthrown??

considering that you hate Lukashenko so much, you obviously do not realise the fact that he is a socialist and has activly spoke about reviving the Soviet Union. Out of all former Soviet republics, Belarus is ranked first in living standards. Belarus has the fastest growing economy in the FSU using market socialism. Belarus is one fo the few Soviet nations who have not had to struggle with drugs, crime and mafia influence because it has kept tight control of the nation.

Lukashenko DID receive 75% of the vote because he is very popular amongst ordinary Belarussians. The only people who don't like him are 'intellectuals' who complain about human rights. Russia will benefit from the new Union.

The main stumbling block of the union is that Putin does not particularly want Lukashenko running for president because he might win! that is a testamnet to the popularity of Lukashenko (he is VERY popular with communists, nationalists, and other non-centrist; which are most of russian voters).

anyway malte, i've read your website. you support dictator fidel castro that will not even allow for free elections in the first place on the justification than his country is good to his people. you immediatly condemn lukashenko for the same thing you praise castro for. you can argue about the process in belarus, but at least the parties are legal and on every ballot there is an option to vote for the candidate you want; and you won't be sent as a political prisoner out of the possibility of being sympathetic to a certain party or view.

(Edited by Nateddi at 4:00 pm on Aug. 21, 2002)

[Conghaileach]

What is "market socialism"? I'm not aware of the term.

[Nateddi]

they allow for a greater market while keeping basic socialist principals (as compared to how they were under the soviet union, where the government owned basically everything)

[Edelweiss]

Hey, I'm not a 100% supporter of Castro, I don't support dictatorship, or like you use to call it "democratic centralism". I do respect Castro, for liberating Cuba from US imperialism, and for his achievements in the Cuban social sytem.
If so many Belorussians are supporting Lukashenko, why than is such a blatant oppression of the opposition is neccessary?

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from CiaranB on 4:08 pm on Aug. 21, 2002
What is "market socialism"? I'm not aware of the term.


I guess "social market economy" or "social capitalism" is a more proper term.

[Edelweiss]

Check out this article:http://www.socialistinternational.org/9Soc...atkevich-e.html (http://www.socialistinternational.org/9SocAffairs/4-V49/statkevich-e.html)

It's written by the leader of Belarusian's social democratic party. It includes some intetesting facts, like that there's also a communist party and serveral trade unions in opposition to Lukashenko.
For the record: I don't support social democracy, but it's still much better than such a dictatorship.

[Revolution Hero]

Quote: from Malte on 2:41 am on Aug. 22, 2002
It's written by the leader of Belarusian's social democratic party. It includes some intetesting facts, like that there's also a communist party and serveral trade unions in opposition to Lukashenko.
For the record: I don't support social democracy, but it's still much better than such a dictatorship.


Do you call it dictatorship only because of the fact that there is "oppression" of the opposition? There is not any oppression of the Belorussian population. The situation with the violated human rights is just the fiction of Belorussian opposition, which they always remind about, just to show how they support "democracy". Belorussian citiizens live good, what else do they need? They are not oppressed, there are not any concentration camps or something like that. What is bad in this kind of political dictatorship, which is supported by the majority of the population?

Also, not every party which calls itself "communist" is actually communist, the same with the trade unions. And that leader of the sociali democratic party is basicly a hypocritical political prostitute, whose words are just number of letters, which forms plain words, which are based on the unreal facts.

[Turnoviseous]

I agree with Nateddi, that elections were maybe correct, but that does not mean that man is not a dictator.

Look at the Roman empire, they were electing a dictator.

Anyway, I think that any union on capitalist base is doomed to the failure in the ex-Soviet bloc.


Quote: from Nateddi on 3:55 pm on Aug. 21, 2002
How many governments has the KGB overthrown??

considering that you hate Lukashenko so much, you obviously do not realise the fact that he is a socialist and has activly spoke about reviving the Soviet Union. Out of all former Soviet republics, Belarus is ranked first in living standards. Belarus has the fastest growing economy in the FSU using market socialism. Belarus is one fo the few Soviet nations who have not had to struggle with drugs, crime and mafia influence because it has kept tight control of the nation.

Lukashenko DID receive 75% of the vote because he is very popular amongst ordinary Belarussians. The only people who don't like him are 'intellectuals' who complain about human rights. Russia will benefit from the new Union.

The main stumbling block of the union is that Putin does not particularly want Lukashenko running for president because he might win! that is a testamnet to the popularity of Lukashenko (he is VERY popular with communists, nationalists, and other non-centrist; which are most of russian voters).

anyway malte, i've read your website. you support dictator fidel castro that will not even allow for free elections in the first place on the justification than his country is good to his people. you immediatly condemn lukashenko for the same thing you praise castro for. you can argue about the process in belarus, but at least the parties are legal and on every ballot there is an option to vote for the candidate you want; and you won't be sent as a political prisoner out of the possibility of being sympathetic to a certain party or view.

(Edited by Nateddi at 4:00 pm on Aug. 21, 2002)


Nateddi, don´t get it wrong, but I think your are little wrong on the issue when you say that a man is a socialist and was speaking about new Soviet Union. However I think it is great that someone is thinking that planned economy is great, but after some things I have read, he is probably thinking of new Stalinist Soviet Union, not any workers´ democracy, since his internationalism lacks very much. (That is also why nationalists ´love´him. He is probably another Great Russian chauvinist)

Next thing are human rights. Actually on what they complain? After the need of free market or more hospitals?

Anyway, I would call the regime more like state capitalism to some degree. But even that would require more study n the subject...



(Edited by Turnoviseous at 5:53 am on Aug. 28, 2002)