RESPECT the unity coalition

[bur372]

http://www.respectcoalition.org/
Seems like a leftist coalition of some sort. They have been around for 6 months. They have already got 12% in some local (council) elections. They seem to stand for peace equality enviroment trade unions socialisim etc. they seem to be agaisnt privitization and Us imperalisim should I vote for them? I know they are not communist but comprimises must be made... for the time being at least.

[Edward Norton]

Well this topic is more or less part of the wider discussion of whether to take proletarian revolution or electoral reformism within the confines of capitalism as a way to achieving a workers state.

My opinion is that proletarian revolution is the ONLY method that will give the workers their victory over their capitalist overlords. Elections change NOTHING and therefore Im not voting in the British election this year and do not see RESPECT in any way able to advance the cause of the workers or anti-imperialism for that matter!

'Social democracy' was rotten then and its rotten now. RESPECT, by allowing social democratic windbags like Tony Benn, Jeremy Corbyn and other non-entities from the 'old' labour party to try and still justify their pathetic and useless exitence, not to mention their £70,000 plus annual salaries (very socialist :P ), has shown itself to be nothing but a repetition of a Harold Wilson era Labour Party, like we need that again!

Infact, RESPECT'S economic policies are to the RIGHT of 'old' Labour! They only want to nationalise the railways, but even the lib dems are now saying that! 'Old' Labour had the entire energy, transport, health, reasearch and heavy industry sector under state ownership, RESPECT only wants the railways, they don't even have the desire to take over the airlines!

FUCK RESPECT!

FUCK THE ELECTIONS!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Hmm, reformism. I think I'll pass.

[Invader Zim]

As I see it, when you vote (if you bother voting at all) then respect are the way to go. This party actually has a remote chance of winning a seat, and at least you will be spreading a message.

[Thomas]

getting respect seats will at least bring a few more people round to leftist thinking.

[Edward Norton]

This party actually has a remote chance of winning a seat, and at least you will be spreading a message.

Spreading what message???

RESPECT are a reformist organisation with a very mild social democratic manifesto, they do not even claim to be socialist, do not use class analysis in politics and do not question the causes and roots of imperialism (only pacifist liberals whine about how war is violent, refuse to take sides in wars between oppressor nations and the oprressed and instead call for pie in the sky 'peace and love' BS) wars are caused by imperialism, which in turn are caused by capitalism (another post would be needed on the subject of imperialism and capitalism and how they are interlinked) and RESPECT do [/B]not state this due to their oppurtunist methods of getting as many votes as possible by hanging around the dead end of middle class liberal politics!

RESPECT will achieve [B]nothing and will not 'educate' or raise awareness of workers oppression, socialism/communism, anti-imperialism or anti capitalism, as they are not even anti capitalist!

DONT VOTE!

BOYCOTT ALL ELECTIONS!

[Frederick_Engles]

As other members have stated, they are reformists and not to be trusted. If I were to vote, it would be for Labour.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 04:40 PM
As other members have stated, they are reformists and not to be trusted. If I were to vote, it would be for Labour.
Serious? Liberla democrats are more leftist than Labour.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If I was forced to vote, I'd spoil my paper.

[T_SP]

When I vote it will be for my own party :D

[T_SP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 08:43 AM
http://www.respectcoalition.org/
Seems like a leftist coalition of some sort. They have been around for 6 months. They have already got 12% in some local (council) elections. They seem to stand for peace equality enviroment trade unions socialisim etc. they seem to be agaisnt privitization and Us imperalisim should I vote for them? I know they are not communist but comprimises must be made... for the time being at least.
Please in the name of sanity do not vote for these fucking idiots!! They are opportunistic reformists who have no intention of invoking any kinda of change. The local andidate by me based there whole manifesto on the fact that she was a Muslim in order to get Muslim votes! What area are you in?

[James]

to all those politically correct che-livers...

not voting. What a lovely subject, What does it achieve?
Well it demonstrates that you don't want any of the sell-outs or fascists that are standing. Go you! They won't get into power with your help! And of course, by not voting, you arn't saying the current system is "ok" in your book. Again: you are fighting the system!


HOWEVER

Lets come back to reality.
1930s Nazi germany... you don't vote because you are fighting the system. However, a mad man and right wing party gets into power and millions die because of it.
But it doesn't matter. At least you arn't a "sell out".

1979 Britain - you don't vote. Labour isn't left wing! Result - thatcher comes in. result? Well you know the score.


So yes. Well done. You fought the system.
erm... yeeeeeees.


Wish i could be as cool as you guys!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Honestly James, no-one who's serious about changing society cares, fuck off.

[Edward Norton]

Lets come back to reality.
1930s Nazi germany... you don't vote because you are fighting the system. However, a mad man and right wing party gets into power and millions die because of it.
But it doesn't matter. At least you arn't a "sell out".

Reality????

Well Britain circa 2005 is NOT Germany circa 1930-33!

The BNP have no REAL chance of getting any seats in the national parliament and the most they would get in these upcoming elections is a few more council seats, they are no where near big enough to take power, the NSDAP (German Nazi party) had a million or so paramilitary members in the SS and SA and had 100,000s of members, not to mention the politcal support of the ruling capitalist class (the bulk of it anyway) in Germany.

Im not saying this for the purpose of us letting our guard down with regards to fascism, we must ALWAYS fight the fascists, especially in the streets and in deprived communities where they thrive!

However we also need to be realistic about the fascist threat, they do NOT pose a nationwide threat in that they have the ability to seize power and establish a one party fascist state.

The BNP has 20 or so council seats nationally and 2000 or so odd members, NO seats in parliament and NO seats in the EU parliament. The Greens are about 10 times the BNP's size yet even they are a LONG way off from the centres of power.

James, are you a Marxist or communist, or are you social democratic?

If you are a communist/Marxist, then I need not go in depth about how we use class conflict and class relationships to analyise a social/political situation.

Fascism, although forever present/existent under capitalism, is always a very small part of the capitalist system when the system is stable and the workers docile. Only when large scale workers unrest, strikes, demostrations, factory occupations and the threat of revolution, do the capitalist bosses then call out their 'guard dogs', the fascists.

Fascisms historic duty to their capitalist paymaters is to first unify the upper classes and the capitalist political system by abolishing all other parties, closing down parliament (a divisive talking shop to the capitalists when there is a crisis and they need strong leadership to crush the workers) and using the police and military to then crush all workers/communist movements and pacify the proletariat.

Britain in 2005 is not in a pre-revolutionary situation with unrest and workers revolting (I WISH!), instead by comparable standards, capitalism in Britain at the moment is secure and stable. Europe is NOT in a pre-revolutionary situation either, but it has a much more active and militant workers tradition and movement, as seen by workers discontent and industrial unrest in countries like France, Germany and Italy.

The 2005 election in Britain is going to be the SAME as it always has been. A 'choice' between Labour and Conservative with the Liberal Democrats hoping to pick up the crumbs from the other two parties.

Even if your statement was true about the fact that fascism was on the doorstep of power, the 'lesser evil' methodology is that you vote for whoever is best able to defeat the fascists.

That means voting Conservative in a place like Surrey, Labour in Newcastle etc....

Communists should not indulge in this type of politics for two reasons:

1) If fascism was on the verge of power, then a proletarian revolution would become MORE urgent than ever, and the workers should have all the reason NOT to vote as fascism is there for the sole purpose of defending capitalism and therefore in order to avoid fascism who have to overthrow capitalism and QUICK!

2) Fascism has NEVER come to power in a country with a stable economy and a stable political system. Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Japan and other countries were all going through economic collapse and workers discontent and in some cases revolt. Even if your idea of everyone voting against the fascists for some sort of 'popular front' was done and the fascist came in second place, look at the situation, fascism came about due to a huge crisis within capitalism and therefore the capitalist classes would want a reactionary dictotorial outcome regardless of what the people want. The capitalists would either ignore the election and invite the fascists in or drop the fascists and call in the army to set up a junta.
So you would then be in the situation of urging the workers to support capitalist politcal systems even though the capitalists would most certainly impose fascism on the people anyway.

If fascism was on the verge of power in Britain and the workers were unable to stage a revolt to stop it, I would get as many like minded people with me and go underground and set up a network to conduct anti fascist resistance outside the law, including in the event of a dictatorship an armed struggle.

On the issue of RESPECT, are you voting for them James?

Do you support their tactics and their desire to revive the 'old' Labour party, in other words bringing back social democracy?

Are you voting, and if so who for?