Your messiah is here

[Jina]

Okey I am not new but only started to post year or so after signing up and one guy already called me a racist pig, interesting... I am waiting for the rest now... Fascist, Commie, Stalinite, Nazi, etc etc... I hope you people aren't like the fucks at PoFo since I was getting tired of the idiotic Capitalist/Liberterian aholes there... hopefuly the rumours about this site aren't real... if they are ehhhhh... and who in here knows me? :P

[NovelGentry]

Fascist, Commie, Stalinite, Nazi

I got seriously problems with two of those, moderate issues that can be ironed out with one, and no problem with the other. Think you can guess which is which?

If indeed you are racist, you're not welcome (not saying you are, just saying IF you are). If you are a Fascist/Nazi, you're REALLY not welcome.

I'm not completely sure what PoFo is, but if you're getting tired of idiotic Capitalist/Libertarians you're at least in the right place to stop being tired of people.

What are the rumors you've heard?

[Jina]

Nice rumours like this forum is full of 13 year old wonabe Ches who live with their rich parents etc etc... lol

Ohh don't worry me no Nazi... ROFL a brown Nazi...hahahahhahahhaaaa that is funny although I am part Aryan... the REAL one....

When I support Stalin people call me Nazi o.O
When I support Communism they call me Fascist o.O

funny right?

[NovelGentry]

Nice rumours like this forum is full of 13 year old wonabe Ches who live with their rich parents etc etc... lol

I know very little about the personal lives of the majority of people here. I suspect the same is true for whoever stated this.


Ohh don't worry me no Nazi... ROFL a brown Nazi...hahahahhahahhaaaa that is funny although I am part Aryan... the REAL one....

When I support Stalin people call me Nazi o.O
When I support Communism they call me Fascist o.O

funny right?

Sad is more like it. Those who mix up Communism and Fascism and Stalinism and Naziism have a number of issues in misunderstanding both ideologies. That's not to say such people don't exist here, hell there's even a thread called: STALINISM=NAZIISM?

Don't let that desuade you though -- there's a very large mix of leftist ideologies on this board, and we all have at each other from time to time but in the end, it is clear there is a lost of serious leftists here, and regardless of ideology, it's easy to find comradery with them.

[pandora]

Hate to be the historian here, but in the Battle of Stalingrad in 1942 to the average soldier the difference between the Nazis and the Stalinists was paltry in terms of the facist environment they had to fight under:
a. one gun to two men
b. enforced suicides of high commands, or generals that lost battles.
c. people shot to be made example of
d. total disregard for the lives of the men, as platoon after platoon was heaped on the bodies of the others.


Understanding the horrors of war, that battle was particularly brutal due to Stalin's crisis of ego at the time, and the fact that the city bore his name, what city was left after the shelling.

I look to Stalin and the events leading up to WWII, the persecution of Trotsky, etc. to see where a crisis of ego could corrupt a Communist Regime and turn it into a bureaucratic nightmare, with bougeois bureaucrats running the show.

Yes understanding that the Nazis were much much worse and killed the residents there and in Poland, and upheld more hierarchy in their ranks, as well as genocide of nations and people conquered, where as for the Russians it was a war, an ideological one but still a war. Except for Stalin, it was all symbolic to him. So I don't go lightly with that name, I blame him and those who supported him prior for diseasing the USSR, but as we both know when Lenin allowed the killing of the Anarchists, that's when Goldman checked out.

[NovelGentry]

All well and good pandora, but I think there's still a very big leap that is being taken the minute one compares Stalinism to Naziism, particularly in the realm of the ideological aspects and the social ends, and this is my point when I say people misunderstand it on both ends.

The argument that Stalinism is Naziism or Communism is Fascism (something of an exploration based on the first argument) is one that ONLY looks at the aspects of implementation. There are other ideological grounds where Stalinism obviously bends further towards these tendencies (when compared to something like pure Marxist ideology) -- but to call them the same? That's not realistic for anyone with a heallthy understanding of the ideologies as well as the histories.

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:16 AM
but I think there's still a very big leap that is being taken the minute one compares Stalinism to Naziism, particularly in the realm of the ideological aspects and the social ends, and this is my point when I say people misunderstand it on both ends.


Please tell me that you're not referring to the Big Leap Forward here, although Jello Biafra had a point about the fact that due to it the Chinese were able to feed their people at a high level of productivity despite some of the facist overtones, come on prison for wiping your ass with a newpaper with Mao's image?

As far as only being facist in implementation not in theory, theory that it is not practiced, ie. in praxis true to the theory is not true to that theory, in practice or in truth. Truth must be the ultimate objective in matching ideology to practice. Gotta walk the walk! ;)

[NovelGentry]

Please tell me that you're not referring to the Big Leap Forward here, although Jello Biafra had a point about the fact that due to it the Chinese were able to feed their people at a high level of productivity despite some of the facist overtones, come on prison for wiping your ass with a newpaper with Mao's image?

In any case of wiping your ass with the image of the great leader blah blah blah... this is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is the same thing I said before, there's a very thick line between fascism and stalinism. Again, you're making it all about the totalitarian aspects. The fact that you go to prison for wiping your ass with a newspaper with Mao's images is totalitarian, yes, yes it sounds like fascism, but to pull fascism and stalinism down to simple totalitarianism is a distortion of both ideologies -- period.

What you're doing is taking their middle ground, and using them as the defining characteristic of each, rather than presenting it in full. And it serves nicely to make one look like the other, and in that aspect they very well may have looked like one another, but that doesn't change that the other aspects still exist.


As far as only being facist in implementation not in theory, theory that it is not practiced, ie. in praxis true to the theory is not true to that theory, in practice or in truth. Truth must be the ultimate objective in matching ideology to practice. Gotta walk the walk!

The problem is of course that Stalin didn't walk the walk of fascism. He walked the walk of totalitarian aspects, maybe even some aspects of actually implementing the bureaucracy of the whole thing, but here is where you draw the line. Because the minute you look at the purpose (it's full aspect) of the state, fascism and Stalinism become two very different beasts.

Stalinism takes on a very blatantly socialist overtone. That the state itself is a tool for the proletariat to oppress and smash the opposition, regardless of whether the proletariat actually had control of it, this is what Stalin believed the purpose of the state was.

Naziism takes on a very blatantly fascist overtone. The state itself is not a tool, but the meaning so to speak by which society grasps it's freedom and consciousness. That the people live through the state not to make an ends and use it as a means, but so that it may be their ends.

This of course differentiates their reasons for being totalitarian. Under fascism it is a condition of upholding the state as an ends that it be authoritarian. Stalinism's authoritarian aspects are on the condition that the state has a purpose, and it's getting on with it's purpose, not for the sole upholding of the state itself.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Hate to be the historian here, but in the Battle of Stalingrad in 1942 to the average soldier the difference between the Nazis and the Stalinists was paltry in terms of the facist environment they had to fight under:
a. one gun to two men
b. enforced suicides of high commands, or generals that lost battles.
c. people shot to be made example of
d. total disregard for the lives of the men, as platoon after platoon was heaped on the bodies of the others.

Enemy at the Gates!

They really didn't have a weapon shortage. Russia had plenty of arms, they even had the most tanks. Even in Leningrad which was surrounded they had enough weapons. There they invented the PPSH-43, locally made in the factories of the city and around 500.000 were produced.

There were 5.000.000 made of the famous PPSH 41


although I am part Aryan... the REAL one....

How do you mean?

[Jina]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Mar 24 2005, 10:06 AM

although I am part Aryan... the REAL one....

How do you mean?
Do you know who the Aryans are? If you do explain then I answer.

[workersunity]

not all of here are 13 yr olds, although their are some assholes here like all message boards ya im also on www.politicsforum.org and my name there is DT-comrade. ya there are lots of idiots there. Im personally 18, and some may call me a diest, and a communist

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by Jina+Mar 25 2005, 01:12 AM--> (Jina @ Mar 25 2005, 01:12 AM)
Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Mar 24 2005, 10:06 AM

although I am part Aryan... the REAL one....

How do you mean?
Do you know who the Aryans are? If you do explain then I answer. [/b]
Depends on. Which one do you mean?

Is it the fairy tale aryan of Hitler or the aryans of Iran/Afghanistan.

[Dwarf Kirlston]

I compare them on another ground. They both were "populists". And they both lied.


PoFo
Political Forum?

[BOZG]

Originally posted by Dwarf [email protected] 25 2005, 03:53 PM

Political Forum?
Politics Forum (http://www.politicsforum.org)