Terri Schiavo Unplugged MEGA-THREAD

[Exploited Class]

Yeah go ahead and post away.

[colombiano]

Terry Schiavo Feeding Tube on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1469&item=5567730590&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) ***LINK NOW TAKEN DOWN BY EBAY***

This is disgusting and leave it to an American Pig to try and profit from an event like this! Keep in mind it is not real .

[RedAnarchist]

That is evil, that.

That por woman is suffering, and the religious right want her to be kept alive, like she actually has some quality of life! How does anyone know that inside, that woman isnt imprisoned in her body, suffering terribly and just hoping to die?

[cormacobear]

Bush is one sick puppy. While Governor of Texas he passed a law which gave the state the right to end the feeding of a six month old in the same mental state, the only difference besides age was the perants ability to pay for the treatment. So apperantly the right to live only apllies to the wealthy in Bush's government. :angry: :angry:

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 11:27 AM
That is evil, that.

That por woman is suffering, and the religious right want her to be kept alive, like she actually has some quality of life! How does anyone know that inside, that woman isnt imprisoned in her body, suffering terribly and just hoping to die?
She isn't suffering, she is dead, the part of her brain that is her is liquid LIQUID. She isn't thinking anything, there isn't anything left of her brain for her to think. You might as well say, "How does anyone know that inside, that carrot isn't imprisoned in its body, suffering terribly and just hoping to die?" Except a carrot has one up on her, it can recieve food on its own. Mentally however, the samething.

[{GR}Raine]

I think this whole case is stupid. Millions die every day in third world countries, People in el Salvador are getting less than 12 cents for every shirt they sew, and the entire government resources are spent on one woman??? It perplexes me. I would let things work out, however florida state laws go. If the husband can remove it by law, let him. If I were in that state, Id want to die. Plus, doctors say she cant recover, so why waste even more money?

[Wolnosc-Solidarnosc]

The entire government's resources?

[rice349]

She isn't suffering, she is dead, the part of her brain that is her is liquid LIQUID. She isn't thinking anything, there isn't anything left of her brain for her to think

Thank you, i'm glad someone finally said it! By the way nice graphic...the debate over Terri Schiavo is pointless and redundant. She should've been euthenized a long time ago...this debate is just an attempt to politicize the issue by the Religious Right to remind republicans (mainly Bush) in office just who got them elected (religious zealots). As for the democrats, its a great way to try and jump on the backwards "family values" bandwagon of "Right to LIfe" bullshit politics. It's stupid and I'm bored with it...she's not even conscious to anything--it's a waste of time and she should die with whatever dignity she has left.

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by {GR}[email protected] 22 2005, 02:46 PM
I think this whole case is stupid. Millions die every day in third world countries, People in el Salvador are getting less than 12 cents for every shirt they sew, and the entire government resources are spent on one woman??? It perplexes me. I would let things work out, however florida state laws go. If the husband can remove it by law, let him. If I were in that state, Id want to die. Plus, doctors say she cant recover, so why waste even more money?
I don't agree that this case is stupid, it might have been once back in the 90s but now it is very relevant for many reasons.

1. First of all it is the Religious right flexing its political and mob muscles. This is to show everybody just how powerful they are. The case is a very clear and cut case, this happens all the time and there is nothing new being discovered here, except political muscle.

2. The political muscle is so fucking incrediable and strong right now it was able to force a congressional vote in the middle of the night and have the federal legislative branch overturn a state judicial branch, breaking the seperation of powers. A first, a huge first. It also shows how entrenched this minority of Christian Extremists are within the government and the control they weild.

3. It is a practice in disinformation, to see how many Americans you can persuade and get to believe in propaganda, rumors, lies and out right incorrect information. They were able to use deceptive videos and false doctors, the media mainstream and religious/right wing to get this incorrect information out.

4. They have effectively made a large group of people hate Micheal Shiavo and so they have practiced and proved their ability in a smear campaign. Adulterer/Murderer are thrown around by sane people now.

5. They are getting their "Life" agenda across and next will be making abortions illegal.

[{GR}Raine]

Originally posted by Wolnosc-[email protected] 22 2005, 05:59 PM
The entire government's resources?
You know what I mean, the congress was supposed to be out of session but had to come at a time during their break just to do the stupid bill. All this media coverage is so stupid, and the number of controversies the right-wing is turning this into. they know its just to gain more base support.

[codyvo]

I believe in yeuthinasia and that Terry Schiavo should be put to rest but pulling the feeding tube is a torture in itself, if she does have any feeling she will be starving for the next couple days, lethal injection would have been much better.

[Exploited Class]

Oh yeah and I forgot

6. To get the public to competely hate "activist judges" or really just have 0 faith in the judicial system. This has been going on since Tort Reforms were being screamed back in the 80s. So the NEOCONS are really trying to just dismantle the judicial system, that whole branch. This is a huge assault and perhaps the most important.

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 03:07 PM
I believe in yeuthinasia and that Terry Schiavo should be put to rest but pulling the feeding tube is a torture in itself, if she does have any feeling she will be starving for the next couple days, lethal injection would have been much better.
Hello Dr. Codyvo, What school of medicine did you graduate from?

You do know that her stomach hasn't been "full" in 15 years? She doesn't eat food, it is just a rich substance that is oozed into her stomach? Also, her body isn't going to stop functioning because of hunger, it will be an electrolyte imbalance.

Also, she doesn't have the ability to feel pain anymore, anymore than say a carrot can.

[Anarchist Freedom]

I agree about unplugging.

[rice349]

You do know that her stomach hasn't been "full" in 15 years? She doesn't eat food, it is just a rich substance that is oozed into her stomach? Also, her body isn't going to stop functioning because of hunger, it will be an electrolyte imbalance.

Another good point Exploited Class... not to mention she struggled with an eating disorder before so it wasn't like she was eating before becoming a vegetable anyways...plus she's not going to feel anything her system will fail or her heart will fail again due to electrolyte imbalance. Either way, she's not going to feel anything--all visible responses displayed are unbeknownst to her, they are simple reflexes and such.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by Exploited [email protected] 22 2005, 10:11 PM


You do know that her stomach hasn't been "full" in 15 years? She doesn't eat food, it is just a rich substance that is oozed into her stomach? Also, her body isn't going to stop functioning because of hunger, it will be an electrolyte imbalance.

Also, she doesn't have the ability to feel pain anymore, anymore than say a carrot can.
How long does it usually take someone to die from dehydration?

[Anarchist Freedom]

Debate Over (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/03/22/1111254024152.html?from=top5)

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:37 PM
Debate Over (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/03/22/1111254024152.html?from=top5)
I don't want to register, can you give us a little bit of a copy and paste on that?

[RevolutionaryLeftist]

my opinion is just that its so sad that she is at that state of mind and that that shit can happen to people,but life isnt worth living if you're not living(hypothetically). why live when you can't think, hardly move, and has to be fed through a tube? that is not living. that is suffering, and people should not suffer. if the only way for someone to stop suffering physically i think death sometimes is the answer. mentally death is not. suicide is basically what im talking about. but being physically hindered to being a vegatable. id rather die.

[rice349]

Perhaps we should settle the debate by creating mandatory legislation regarding what to do with people in vegetative states...for instance, when the case reaches the severity in which Schiavo is in, it becomes pointless to maintain her life? Should we have federal legislation which would cut off life support for such an individual?

[Commie Girl]

Okay, a couple questions, but first let me say that she should have died a long time ago...

1) Why does her husband not divorce her, and get on with his life, I believe he is now with another woman and has children with her

2) How can any U$ adminisrtaion talk about the sanctity of life when they have an express line for the death penalty, especially in Texas?

[Sabocat]

I thought this was a pretty good article, and summed it all up pretty nicely. You have to get by the obvious fight over the vegetable, and get to the meat of what the right wing hopes to do with this battle.

Bush, Congress intervene in Terri Schiavo case: political thuggery in the service of reaction
By the Editorial Board
21 March 2005



The intervention of Congress and the Bush administration into the case of Terri Schiavo—the Florida woman on life support for the past 15 years—is an act of unmitigated political thuggery, exploiting a family tragedy for the most reactionary political purposes. It is both a moral abomination and a frontal assault on basic democratic rights.

The assertion of unbridled government authority over the most intimate and private concerns is an ominous warning of the political direction of the US ruling elite and its political agents. The emergency bill being rammed through Congress has been accompanied by open appeals to religious hysteria and thinly concealed incitement to violence against Michael Schiavo, his lawyer, and the Florida judge who upheld Schiavo’s decision to terminate life support.

The cynical and brutal exploitation of an internal family dispute over the fate of Schiavo, whom doctors have declared to be in an irreversible vegetative state, is but the latest political provocation launched by Bush and his Republican allies in Congress. It follows a well established pattern of jumping on “hot button” issues—abortion rights, same-sex marriage, school prayer—in order to whip up the most backward, ignorant and intolerant social elements.

This is how the arch-reactionaries who control all of the levers of state power in the US seek to create a social base for right-wing policies that are opposed by the vast majority of the American people: militarism and war; the destruction of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid; the gutting of democratic rights. Behind Bush and company stand the most predatory and criminal sections of the US ruling elite, who pursue by such means their plans to eliminate all legal and political restrictions on the pursuit of corporate profit and the accumulation of ever more obscene levels of personal wealth.

As the Schiavo affair demonstrates, the Democratic Party serves as the willing accomplice in this assault on the basic rights of the American people.

Acting at the instigation of Christian fundamentalist groups that have targeted the Schiavo case as an example of the “right to life,” congressional Republicans made a series of attempts last week to overturn the Florida judge’s decision to permit the withdrawal of life support.

Both the House and Senate met in emergency session Sunday to consider a bill entitled “For the Benefit of the Parents of Theresa Marie Schiavo,” which would allow the parents to file suit in federal court to block the withdrawal of life support. President Bush flew back from a weekend at his Crawford, Texas ranch to be on hand to sign the bill, in a crass display of pandering to the Christian right.

Exemplifying the shameless hypocrisy that has permeated all of the actions of Bush and Congress in this case, White House spokesman Scott McClellan issued a statement that in matters of life and death, such as the Schiavo case, the president believed in careful reflection and deliberation. This from a man who, as governor of Texas, rubber-stamped the execution of 152 prisoners, giving an average of 15 minutes apiece to their death row appeals. The Bush White House’s record of “respect for human life” has included the razing of entire cities in Iraq, the dispatch of US Special Forces and CIA death squads around the world, and the widespread use of torture.

While the professional Christian fundamentalist zealots cultivated by Bush and the Republicans, whose supporters comprise a small minority of the American people, have applauded the machinations of the White House and Congress in the Schiavo case, the vast majority of the population look with incredulity and disgust at the events of the past several days. (Opinion polls show that there is little public support for such a politically motivated intervention by the federal government into the most intimate sphere of family life). The rest of the world is overwhelmingly repulsed by the spectacle of inhumanity and cynicism.

The Schiavo affair demonstrates several prevailing trends in American bourgeois politics: the decisive influence of the fundamentalist Christian right in the Republican Party, the cowardice and prostration of the Democratic Party in the face of reaction, and the exclusion of the vast majority of the American people from the entire process.

Terri Schiavo is one of 35,000 people in the United States who have fallen into a persistent vegetative state as the result of trauma, drug overdose or other medical complications. Schiavo collapsed in 1990, apparently as the result of a potassium imbalance, and has been in a non-responsive condition ever since. She breathes on her own, but is otherwise dependent on intravenous feeding for both water and food intake. Her brain function is effectively zero, attested to by numerous neurologists and other doctors who have examined her. There is no documented case of recovery from such a condition, unlike coma, where cases of awakening after many years, even decades, have been reported.

Schiavo’s case has been heavily litigated because of a conflict between her husband Michael and her parents, Robert and Mary Schindler. Michael Schiavo has consistently maintained that his wife expressed a desire not to be kept alive in a vegetative state. His testimony has been found credible in numerous court proceedings, and his right to make the decision on life support, as the surviving spouse, has likewise been upheld.

The Schindlers are conservative Catholics who adhere to a traditionalist interpretation of Church doctrine. Whether in self-delusion, or under the influence of their far-right “advocates,” the Schindlers have made flagrantly false claims about Terri Schiavo’s condition—that she responds to them, that she even communicates—despite the absence of any supporting neurological data.

Under ordinary circumstances, this family tragedy might have ended up in a local court, but would never have become a major national issue, let alone the pretext for a radical change in constitutional procedures. That required the political intervention of the Christian right groups that are a principal social base of the Republican Party.

In 2003, after Michael Schiavo first won a court order allowing the termination of life support to his wife, Florida Republican Governor Jeb Bush (brother of George W. Bush) and the Republican-controlled state legislature stepped in, passing and signing “Terri’s Law,” a bill that prohibited the termination of life support in her case only.

The law was eventually struck down by the Florida Supreme Court, and the case reverted back to Pinellas County, where Terri Schiavo now lives in a hospice. Last week, as the culmination of this protracted legal battle, Circuit Court Judge George Greer authorized Michael Schiavo to order life support withdrawn and barred any further proceedings in his court.

The Christian right groups backing the Schindlers pushed a bill through the Florida House of Representatives to again block the withdrawal of life support, but the Florida Senate defeated the legislation. A federal judge in Tampa refused to give the Schindlers standing to shift the case from Judge Greer to federal court.

The next step was an appeal to Congress, where the House of Representatives adopted a resolution last Wednesday granting the federal courts jurisdiction over all life support cases where there was any close family member who objected to termination—an open invitation for thousands to file such suits. The Senate, however, took up a more narrowly tailored version, which would have been limited to the Schiavo case only, because of objections from some Democrats to the more sweeping House bill. Both houses then began a two-week Easter recess, apparently dooming the bill.

On Friday, a rapid-fire sequence of events took place. Christian fundamentalist groups denounced the House and Senate for inaction and threatened the Republican leadership with retaliation. House and Senate committees then issued subpoenas for the testimony not only of Michael Schiavo, but also his brain-dead wife. This was coupled with threats that any action to terminate life support for Terri Schiavo would be construed as interference with a federal witness, a felony crime.

Judge Greer rejected the subpoenas, saying Congress had no jurisdiction in the case. “I don’t think legislative bodies or agencies have business in a court proceeding,” he told a lawyer representing the House Committee on Government Reform. “The fact that you—your committee—decided to do something today doesn’t create an emergency.” On Friday afternoon, the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo was disconnected.

The House committee then made an emergency appeal to the US Supreme Court, seeking an order to reinstate the feeding tube. The high court, in an unsigned opinion, rejected that appeal Friday night.

Also Friday night, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Hastert, both Republicans, announced that congressional committees would continue work on legislation over the weekend, declaring they were “committed to reaching agreement on legislation that provides an opportunity to save Mrs. Schiavo’s life.”

Frist and Hastert recalled Congress from its recess for an emergency session on Sunday to adopt the bill, opening the federal courts in Tampa for an appeal by the Schindlers. Passage of the bill required unanimous consent—granted by the Democrats in the Senate, but blocked by several Florida Democrats in the House. The plan was for the House to meet in a regular session at the earliest possible time under House rules—12:01a.m. Monday—and pass the bill by majority vote. Bush is to sign it Monday morning, and the Schindlers are expected to file a federal suit the same day.

This parliamentary maneuvering has been accompanied by an extraordinary degree of rhetorical bullying and hypocrisy. The congressional Republicans normally posture as defenders of “states’ rights” against an overreaching federal judiciary, but here they are pushing for federal judicial intervention in a case that has been exhaustively litigated in the state courts. They preach the primacy of “family values,” but are trampling on the right of Michael Schiavo to make a decision based upon his understanding of his wife’s own wishes. They claim to champion “limited government”—in order to attack programs for working people and the poor—but rip up all precedent on privacy rights so as to impose a government diktat over the most personal affairs of individuals.

Senator Frist used his background as a medical doctor to lend credibility to the groundless claims by the Schindlers. He said that after reviewing widely broadcast video footage of Terri Schiavo—in which she stares open-eyed and open-mouthed—he concluded that the diagnosis of “persistent vegetative state” was in error.

Frist is a heart surgeon, not a neurologist, and no reputable doctor would make a diagnosis based on a selectively edited videotape. Political rather than medical factors were decisive here. Frist is exploring a bid for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008, for which Christian right backing would be crucial.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a fervent supporter of the death penalty and the US war in Iraq, denounced the removal of the feeding tube from the brain-dead woman as “an act of medical terrorism.” Standing before television cameras—which he has assiduously avoided for weeks because he is the subject of numerous investigations into corruption charges—DeLay declared, “Right now, murder is being committed against a defenseless American citizen in Florida.”

The cynicism of the Republican leadership is underscored by an unsigned one-page memo, leaked to the press, which had been distributed as “talking points” for Republican senators. The memo declared: “This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue.” It went on to cite the opportunity to bash Florida’s Democratic Senator Bill Nelson, who is up for reelection next year. “This is a great political issue,” the memo reads, “because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a cosponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats.”

One of the most significant aspects of the Schiavo affair is the full-scale collaboration with the Christian right on the part of nearly every Democrat in the House and Senate. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, himself an opponent of abortion, quickly aligned himself with the plan for special legislation on the Schiavo case, and prevailed on the entire Democratic caucus, 44 members in all, to refrain from objecting and blocking passage of the bill.

At a Senate session held Saturday, to clear the way for a vote the following day, only two Republicans and one Democrat were in attendance, with Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa, a prominent liberal, working to facilitate passage of the bill. The Senate adopted the bill Sunday by unanimous consent—making every Senate Democrat responsible for its passage. While several House Democrats objected individually to passage of the bill, forcing the unusual post-midnight session, the House Democratic leadership tacitly endorsed the bill.

This led to an appropriate comment from Michael Schiavo’s lawyer, George Felos, who called the initial effort to issue subpoenas “thuggery,” and denounced the drafting of a special bill to deprive Michael Schiavo of his right to carry out his wife’s medical wishes. “It was odious, it was shocking, it was disgusting and I think all Americans should be alarmed,” Felos said. As for the Democrats, he said, “If they don’t stand up for Terri Schiavo, they deserve to be the minority party.”

In a television interview, Michael Schiavo denounced the politically-motivated government interference in his family. “This is what Terri wanted. This is her wish,” he said Friday on CNN. The government has “just trampled all over my personal life,” he added. Congress was “getting in the middle of something they know nothing about. And it’s sad. If they can do it to me, they can do it to everyone in this country.”

This warning should be taken to heart. The Schiavo case demonstrates how far the United States has gone towards a dictatorship by right-wing zealots who seek to impose their fundamentalist religious views on the vast majority of the American people who do not share them.

Press reports of the scene outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida, where Terri Schiavo lives, suggest the demented character of those who have rallied to the cause of “saving Terri.” A relative handful of demonstrators are in attendance, many of them regulars from the ultra-right protest circuit. According to one account, most of them were outside the Alabama Supreme Court last year to oppose the removal of a huge Ten Commandments monument, and others have joined in abortion clinic blockades.

Those present have included such figures as Patrick Mahoney of the Christian Defense League and Randall Terry of Operation Rescue, both of whom have been linked to violent attacks at abortion clinics. Some protesters carry signs that openly incite violence, accusing Judge Greer of “judicial murder,” or suggesting that Michael Schiavo, rather than Terri, should be cut off life support.

On Saturday morning, three people were arrested on trespassing charges when they attempted to enter the hospice. One was James “Bo” Gritz, a former Green Beret commander from the Vietnam War, who has long been prominent in fascistic militia circles and ran for president as the candidate of an ultra-right group.

There are myriad connections between such elements and the congressional Republican leadership. DeLay, in particular, seemed to be directly appealing for violence against Judge Greer, Michael Schiavo, and Schiavo’s attorney George Felos. He attacked Greer’s order as “barbaric,” called Felos “the personification of evil,” and even attacked Schiavo personally. “I don’t have a whole lot of respect for a man that has treated this woman in this way,” he said. “What kind of man is he?”

The legal and constitutional implications of the Schiavo case are extremely reactionary. It is notable that the bill rushed through the House and Senate declares that it sets no precedent and applies only to Terri Schiavo and her parents. This is the same logic employed by the US Supreme Court in its notorious decision in Bush v. Gore, settling the outcome of the 2000 presidential election by awarding the White House to Bush.

In enacting a law whose sole purpose is to overturn a specific state court decision in a private case, Congress is assuming the kind of arbitrary authority which the entire US constitutional system of checks and balances was designed to prevent. It is a giant step towards a system based, not on the rule of law, but on the exercise of absolute power by the party that occupies the White House and controls even a narrow congressional majority.

Link (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/schi-m21.shtml)

[Hampton]

I don't want to register, can you give us a little bit of a copy and paste on that?


A US federal judge yesterday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman's parents.

United States District Judge James Whittemore said the 41-year-old woman's parents had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial on the merits of their arguments.

Rex Sparklin, a lawyer with the law firm representing Mrs Schiavo's parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to "save Terri's life." That court was already considering an appeal on whether Mrs Schiavo's right to due process had been violated.

Reaction from the handful of protesters outside the woman's hospice came quickly. "It's terrible. They're going to talk and talk and she's going to die," said Miriam Zlotolow, 59.

Judge Whittemore's decision comes after feverish action by President George Bush and Congress on legislation allowing the brain-damaged woman's contentious case to be reviewed by federal courts.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Save her life? what life?

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 22 2005, 04:06 PM
Okay, a couple questions, but first let me say that she should have died a long time ago...

1) Why does her husband not divorce her, and get on with his life, I believe he is now with another woman and has children with her

2) How can any U$ adminisrtaion talk about the sanctity of life when they have an express line for the death penalty, especially in Texas?
Answers.

1. Why doesn't he just divorce her and get on with his life? Well first off, they were married and he made a promise to his wife when she said, "don't let me end up like that." He is still trying to complete her wishes, which when you think about it is pretty awesome. I think most of us would have thrown in the towel perhaps and walked away, especially when our face was on TV, people called us a murderer, evil, the christian zealot army was sending out pamphelets about how bad we were, the US Senate singled us out and crossed a political first to stop you from accomplishing your wife's wishes.

Yes 15 years is a long time, shit happens and he did get on with his life. He met somebody else who he loves and has children with. He isn't going to miss out on the rest of his life just because his wife's parents can't deal with the fact that there daughter is dead. If you died and you loved your spouse, truly loved them and cared for them, I think you would want them to find somebody that makes them happy when you are uncapable of doing so.

So he met somebody else? So what? He still feels he needs to carry out his promise to his wife because she trusted him enough to. He feels obligated and if he divorced her, her wishes would not be carried out and he would have let her down when she was at her weakest.

2. Because Christian Zealots in America are old skool, old testement and they believe in vengence.

[Loknar]

http://www.terrisfight.net/
http://www.terrisfight.net/timeline.html
http://www.spiritdaily.com/schiavoallegations.htm



MYTH: If Terri hasn't recovered after all these years of therapy, why not let go?

FACT: Terri hasn't had meaningful therapy since 1991, but many credible physicians say she can benefit from it.




MYTH: Is Terri receiving life support?

FACT: Not in the traditional sense. Terri only receives food and fluids via a simple tube.




MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.




MYTH: Terri does not need rehabilitation
FACT: Florida Statute 744.3215 Rights of persons determined incapacitated:

(1) A person who has been determined to be incapacitated retains the right
(i) To receive necessary services and rehabilitation.

This is a retained right that a guardian cannot take away. Additionally, it does not make exception for PVS patients. Terri has illegally been denied rehabilitation - as many nurses have sworn in affidavits.



MYTH: Removal of food was both legal and court-ordered.
FACT: The courts had only allowed removal of Terri's feeding tube, not regular food and water. Terri's husband illegally ordered this. The law only allows the removal of "life-prolonging procedures," not regular food and water:

Florida Statute 765.309 Mercy killing or euthanasia not authorized; suicide distinguished. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act or omission to end life other than to permit the natural process of dying.




MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.
FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri’s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri’s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri’s feeding removed. Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Dr. Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri. Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself “Dr. Death”, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.



MYTH: Michael Schiavo volunteered to donate the balance of the inheritance to charity.
FACT: In October, 1998, Schiavo’s attorney proposed that, if Terri’s parents would agree to her death by starvation, Schiavo would donate his inheritance to charity. The proposal came after a court-appointed Guardian Ad Litem cited Schiavo’s conflict of interest since he stood to inherit the balance of Terri’s medical fund upon her death. This one and only offer stated “if the proposal is not fully accepted within 10 days, it shall automatically be withdrawn”. Naturally, Terri’s parents immediately rejected the offer.

[Loknar]

On a side note, I think you people need to recheck your statements. "she is not feeling anything." "keeping her alive is inhumane in her current state".
btw, some people in similar states to hers have recovered.

sheez. i thouht you commies hated the 3rd reich.

listtening to you poeple i'd think you're sifting through humanity to seperate the strong and superior from the weak and inferior.

[Sabocat]

btw, some people in similar states to hers have recovered.



"According to press reports of the medical literature, there is only a single case of partial recovery from a persistent vegetative state out of the hundreds of thousands of such tragedies over the past three decades. The individual in question, a Minneapolis policeman shot while on duty in 1979, recovered partially after 20 months, returning to consciousness but unable to speak or move, and swallowing only with difficulty. He died five years later without any significant improvement."

Link (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/schi-m23.shtml)

[Loknar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 12:19 PM

btw, some people in similar states to hers have recovered.



"According to press reports of the medical literature, there is only a single case of partial recovery from a persistent vegetative state out of the hundreds of thousands of such tragedies over the past three decades. The individual in question, a Minneapolis policeman shot while on duty in 1979, recovered partially after 20 months, returning to consciousness but unable to speak or move, and swallowing only with difficulty. He died five years later without any significant improvement."

Link (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/schi-m23.shtml)
but she isnt in a persistent vegetative state.........

[NovelGentry]

On a side note, I think you people need to recheck your statements. "she is not feeling anything." "keeping her alive is inhumane in her current state".

Her central cortex is liquid... everyone get it? Liquid... there is no brain mass anymore for higher level thinking, liquid. About the only way you would save her life is by regrowing a brain for her, and about the only way you'd have a shot at that is some pretty serious stem cell research, because as far as I know that is the ONLY way to regrow nerve tissue and thus possibly brain matter.

The record of the right wing on the issue of Life:

Oppose stem cell research which would possibly save the lives of people with such disabling diseases and traumas.

Oppose assisted suicide so people in Terri's situation have to dehydrate to death rather than die quickly and easily (I'm not gonna say painfully cause she can't feel any pain... liquid my friend).

Oppose the right for someone who's wishes have been made clear to follow through based on the wishes of others who simply can't let go.

Approve the death penalty so forced testimony from mentally handicapped people can lead to the death and/or life imprisonment of teenagers.

Approve and/or express apathy towards the removal of machine assisted living (a respirator) from a child far more responsive than someone in PVS.

Approve the murder of thousands of civilians in the name of false claims by use of fear propaganda.

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 12:05 PM
but she isnt in a persistent vegetative state.........
So I guess you have the cat scans of her perfect healthy brain that doesn't have the liquid ceriberal cortex?

No? You have an optomotrists saying she isn't, awesome!

[rice349]

The only functioning section of her brain is actually the brain stem and a couple surrounding areas, which are only responsible for the most basic life functions -- heart beat, breathing, blinking, limited reflexes, etc. She's basically not even a human being any more.

The rest of her brain is a vacuum---not capable of critical, personal, or even simple thoughts. She can't feel pain because pain receptors are in the more complex areas of the brain..Trying to prevent her from being allowed to die would be as retarded as the right to life's arguments about how "fetuses are the same as people." Biologically speaking, yes (they, like Terri) would be classified as human beings, but they cannot comprehend what's about to happen to them so why support them?

[Loknar]

ok, so you guys are doctors...

I have posted links in which doctors say she is not in a vegetative state, but what do they know right? and under Florida law she doesn’t meet the criteria f or being in a vegetative state.

[Loknar]

I heard on the radio, someone close to the family stated that she is sweating allot and is crying and is showing signs of being in pain..

now how can this be if she cant feel pain?


science has a long way to go. especially with concern to the brain. it is the most complex organ in our bodies and we still have a hell of allot to learn about it. with that in mind we cant know for sure what she is 'feeling'. the only person who can know is terry her self.

[NovelGentry]

I have posted links in which doctors say she is not in a vegetative state, but what do they know right? and under Florida law she doesn’t meet the criteria f or being in a vegetative state.

LIQUID! Not brain, liquid.


I heard on the radio, someone close to the family stated that she is sweating allot and is crying and is showing signs of being in pain..

I also heard someone IN the family say that she followed them with her eyes. Strangely, when external stimulation is directly applies, for example, shining a really bright light in her eyes, she doesn't shift them away from the direct light.

Do not confuse involuntary actions like crying (yes, that is an involuntary action which can be caused directly from eye-trauma), sweating (which by the way is not likely in the least, at least not in any noticeable amount since she is dehydrating), and whatever other things your body would do without the least thought involved, for any kind of revelation.

LIQUID!


science has a long way to go. especially with concern to the brain. it is the most complex organ in our bodies and we still have a hell of allot to learn about it. with that in mind we cant know for sure what she is 'feeling'. the only person who can know is terry her self.

Indeed, and if she had any semblance of a brain these things might be questionable. Liquid.

EDIT: Aside from all of this, regardless of feeling pain etc.. what exactly is the point of her life? You want her to live so that she may die later in the same state? Aside from the idea that letting her live contradicts her wishes -- or at least -- what has been legally upheld as her wishes, how do you presume to know, if she does have any measure of thought, that she wouldn't want to die? -- I admit, there is no way for me to know that she would want to die aside from the previously stated evidence, but there is no way in the case to actually adhere to her needs. The idea of keeping her alive adheres strictly to the desires of her parents.

[Severian]

If she was in Texas, and couldn't pay the bill, she could be cut off regardless of her next-of-kin's wishes.

Houston Chronicle: Baby cut off life support despite mother's wishes. (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3087387)

For that matter, Medicaid's paying part of her hospital bills right now; the same people insisting she stay fed are slashing the program that pays for it.

Before that, it was a $750,000 medical malpractice lawsuit settlement: guess who wants to "reform" that kind of judgement away?

The U.S. Congress, and the "right to life" forces, seem to have adopted a motto attributed to Stalin: one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.

[SgtPepper369]

I think they should give up and pull the damn plug, but who cares what I think. This arguement is forever going to be what we call in the music world a "clusterfuck". It shouldn't be a matter of national concern. And the fact that it's the only issue Bush has ever cancelled vacation early for is beyond me.

My ruling: Pull the plug and let her rest in peace. Don't give life insurance money to either party (cause that's obviously what they've been holding on for) but pay for the funeral. The End. Just another classic example of the christian right trying to run peoples lives for them.

[Anarchist Freedom]

She is already dead shes been dead for 15 years.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by Exploited [email protected] 23 2005, 02:42 AM
[2. Because Christian Zealots in America are old skool, old testement and they believe in vengence.
Their hypocrites. They talk about God this and God that.....God isnt even keeping Terry Schaivo alive. Machinery is.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Let it die.

She has no life, hardly any brain, is 41 years old, it's a waste of resources, chances of becoming a "normal" individual are basically impossible, her husband probably doesn't give a damn about her anymore and the only argument their parents have is something like "but she was a catholic so she probably would like to keep living since that's what our faith brainwashes us into believing!".

The funny thing about this thing is the questions that it brings to the nonsensical whiny christian's mind: I mean stuff like: does she have "free will"? how come she is in such a state because she has her brain destroyed, if we have souls? how come stem cell research might even save her some day and we tend to oppose it? why doesn't god perform a miracle?


listtening to you poeple i'd think you're sifting through humanity to seperate the strong and superior from the weak and inferior.

typical straw man fallacy mixed with an ad hominem one. Very typical from people like you.

[iwwobblie]

Now this is just wrong :lol: :

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 01:26 AM
Now this is just wrong :lol: :

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/
:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 22 2005, 11:06 PM
Okay, a couple questions, but first let me say that she should have died a long time ago...

1) Why does her husband not divorce her, and get on with his life, I believe he is now with another woman and has children with her


$1 million life-insurance policy.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 06:26 AM
Now this is just wrong :lol: :

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/
The comments are high-larious too.

I think I might be going somewhere hot... :P

[Sabocat]

I don't know what's funnier. The blog itself or the crackers that comment thinking it's a real site of Terry's. :lol: :lol:


[