smart arse capitalists.............

[uth1984]

I was on holiday with mates, and after the 7th greek beer, politics came up. One of my anti-socialist friends (yes, I do talk to some peoiple like that) said
"How can you possibly be socialist if you spend monkey on a nice holiday and beer?"
Then he said
"How do you explain working class people voting right-wing?"
"How do you explain poor peoiple becoming educated, and earning vast amounts?"
As I was pretty drunk, all I could think to say was "Oh fuck off."

Any help to give?

[Nateddi]

there is nothing wrong with spending money, your friend is a dolt.

workign class does not vote right wing. the petty-bourgeois intelligentsia may, southern conservative working class may (for the conservative social policies), but generally the working class does not vote right wing.

the poor people becoming educated is not many, it is definitely hard to get into college with such prices as in the u.s.

on the other hand, the rich are taken though life (education process, etc) on an escalator, the poor need to climb rope.

your friend is a typical apolitical rightist who is not aware of any bigger picture. "fuck off" wasn't a bad responce to him in my opinion.

[Supermodel]

It helps to be a patronizing ***** like me.

Say, "obviously you have been miseducated about socialism and what solicalists are really like. This kind of mis-information brought the world to near -destruction a few times.

Unfortunately, vacation is not a good time to get into a full proper education, or should we say, un-brainwashing, so I suggest dear friend that you buy me a round of beer since you seem so concerned about my alarming lack of funds, a common status among socialists since they are not materialistic."

I am afraid that your original answer may have heightenend your friend's fears about the demise of socialism. Oh well, correct him later.

[canikickit]

Quote: from uth1984 on 4:58 pm on Aug. 9, 2002

"Oh fuck off."

Any help to give?


You don't need any, that's the perfect response.

[Vladimir]

Ah Fuck Off, *with a box to the face* tell him what Nateddi said and then punch him

IrishGuevara

[Marxman]

I know the answer to that cappie question. Being a socialist doesn't mean being cut-off from the leisure world. It doesn't mean that you must be a geek or nerd all the time and not have fun. On the contrary, socialism fights for freedom and fun for the people, the only burden to that is the cappie system. There was nothing un-socialist about having fun with your friends and socialising with them. On the contrary, that's the basic of it. I don't know where does a cappie like that get the idea that a socialist can't have a holiday? That's the point, cappies are only making fun of us and the best way for a counter-attack is to marxistically explain the real situation. About voting right-wing. Do we have a choice about the voting? Do we have an option to vote for Lenin or for Trotsky? No, we don't. We have an option to vote for a burgeous-protected politician who has the same programme as the other candidates for the throne. Their slogans are always the same, like "making a better future, building better worlds" and more of that shit. It's all meant to deceive the people to vote for them. The politicians' campaigns are burgeous protected because burgeous give money to cappies politicians thus the burgeous future is secured. The next thing is poor people being educated and earning vast amounts. Well, many cappies come from poor families. The system of capitalism teaches all of us this:"Survival of the fittest." And poor kids have more compulsion of success than the rich kids. We are all being taught to make money, to go to school for decades to get the best education, leave all the other priorities rescinded. That is what they teach us, to steal, to rob, to get more and more and the compulsion of the poor people is greater than that of a rich one because the rich kid has got all that he requires and his compulsion is weak. And you see, that's the main problem of this system - individualism. This system is horrible and the only sollution for this planet is the path for communism! Believe me.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

"How can you possibly be socialist if you spend monkey on a nice holiday and beer?"

Socialist are people too.

"How do you explain working class people voting right-wing?"

How do you explain upper class people voting left?

"How do you explain poor peoiple becoming educated, and earning vast amounts?"

Can we get an estimate on how many people this happens too? I could say maybe 1 in 25 million. In order to get a good education you need money. If you don't have money you go to a sub standard school.(At least in America) And thus the poverty cycle continues.

[Marxman]

Statistics show that many that came from poor families, are now millionares. I can't be surprised because it's all a matter of compulsion. It's true that rich have enough money to go to colleges but the rich kids usually lack of compulsion, of some ignition to be successful. Poor kids dream and dream to be successful and they soon become ensnared into the capitalist cycle. That cycle teaches tham what I've described in my early post. So, they transform into a capitalist and the compulsion still exists because capitalism doesn't teach you where to stop or when it's enough. It only teaches you how to get money money money. The cycle in capitalism includes all knds of things, and those things are usually devious and totally inhumane. And just look what is the collateral damage of the cycle of capitalism, the collateral damage is hunger, disease, poverty, despair, alcoholness, drugs, polution, etc. The cycle doesn't teach how to help humanity but how to help you to get only money and how to destroy everything else in the collateral damage. So, the poor kids are more frequent get sucked up by the cycle of capitalism. And thus it explains partially why poor workers are voting for right-wing.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

I'd say a vast majority of those people aren't university educated. They earned their millions through
a) Ruthlessly exploiting the under classes
or
B) Becoming a tool of corporate sponsorship eg. Musicians, sports stars etc.

[Marxman]

Exactly. There are many ways to get rich in the US of A. America offers you numerous possibilities to "get around." Those opportunites seldom have a socialist character. Becoming a tool of capitalism equals to becoming ensnared into the capitalist cycle, which I've explained. Good education today, especially in my country Slovenia is really hard to achieve. In my country, if you want to be something, you have to study to the age of 25 or more. That's how it's like in this capitalist system, where "survival of the fittest" is implemented into our genes when we're born. So many people rather decide to say away from the legal way of getting money. Many rather decide to have criminal agendas because capitalism literally teaches you that. The more harder you try, the more they push you in this system, so in the legal way "survival of the fittest" as in the illegal way ensnares the weakest into death. Big capitalist country like USA where competition is at its maximum point, people literally eat each other and wors of all, they are taught to do that. It's sad, it's really sad how capitalism represents a machine with an endless cycle.

[Conghaileach]

As my Don Marquis quote below states, it's very rare that a hard-working person will ever become rich.

Most people who aren't born rich but become rich usually do so by playing the stock markets (doing no work, but making the profit) or gambling (lotteries, casinoes etc), or as Mac stated becoming a tool of corporate sponsorship. The idea of working your way to the top is an illusion that blinds most of the working class and forces them into their wage slave positions.

[Marxman]

And the only solution is the genuine socialist revolution. Only then will the proletariat and peasantry be freed from the clutches of the burgeois/cappies.

[Conghaileach]

I agree completely.