Pride

[Paradox]

I don't know that this is actually a philosophical question, but what do you think about pride? I read one of the questions from the politicalcompass.org test, and it asks whether or not you agree with this statement:

"Noboby chooses the country they're born in so they shouldn't be proud of it."

That got me thinking, because you also don't choose what ethnicity you are born as, but people are proud of that too. I have pride in the fact that I am Native American/Mexican Mestizo, but this did make me think. I didn't choose to be Native or Mexican, so should I be proud of my culture? And does it matter whether or not I'm proud of it?

And what about being proud about doing a good job on a test, or doing something else successfully. Or how about those people who put those bumper stickers on their cars saying their kid is on the honor role, or has perfect attendence? What are they proud for? It's not like they're the one who's on the honor role. And would they put a bumper sticker on their car saying their kid is always absent from school and is a D student? I'm not quite sure what to think about pride. Getting back to my Native pride for example, I may be proud of my Native culture, but am I proud of the fact that Mexica/Aztecs practiced human sacrifice? No. Does it matter that we choose what we're proud of and what we're ashamed of? Should we be proud of anything?

[enigma2517]

Good question, I've pondered that myself a few times.

I really don't think it matters...a sense of pride for some people may actually translate into a feeling of belonging and meaning, they get this pride because they are part of something they consider meaningful.

It could go either way...pride in your culture, putting it up on exhibition for others to see shows the diversity and uniqueness of our world. On the other hand, using (manipulating) pride to rally a war cry against some foreign nation (I live in the US...it gets pretty crazy sometimes) is completely wrong.

So is pride wrong? Not really...I think its a basic human emotion that everybody experiences at one point or another. It's more important to evaluate it on a case to case basis and make a decision based on that. Abrasive and destructive forms of pride (nationalism or ethnocentrism for instance) should be avoided however.

[deathordeath]

Pride is propoganda:
"Take pride in your American Heritage"
simply modern day propoganda. The US (and other governments) basically try to exploit this fact that many people do take pride in their heritage and nationality.

I think you can rightfully take pride in your own work and achievements however. If you are to win a nobel prize that is an achievement and should be permitted to take pride in that.

Pride is also something that gets in the way. People (ignorant ones to be specific) often are tricked into doing things out of pride. We have all heard the come back "wussy" and people call you "afraid" in attempt to hurt your pride and therefore influence you to do something foolish.

I am very undecided upon it but due to lack of personal achievement I have no pride.

[Iepilei]

It depends on the degree of pride. Xenophobia is a deadly disease.

[seraphim]

I'm proud to be a socialist first, English second and British third pride in your roots is not a bad thing.

[FriedFrog]

I think being proud depends on the type of person you are. A submissive or shy person is probably less likely to be proud than an outgoing and confident person.

And as to wether pride is a good thing or not, it again depends on the situation. If its an arrogant pride, then no, but if its quietly being pleased with yourself over a worth accomplishment, I dont think its a bad thing.

I dont think it makes much sense to be proud to be a nationality or race, becasue no-ones the 'best'.

[RedStarOverChina]

logically, justification for patriotism doesnt seem to be strong. And it's really hard to draw the line when u decide to be patriotic.

As much as i'd like to think of myself as an internationalist, i cant help but feel proud about my country. I guess everyone feels the same way.

I suppose for now we should try to limit our patriotism from developing into nationalism, which is the hatred against others instead of being proud of urself.

I believe that patriotism will be weaken in the future, untill it fully disappears.

[Hodgeh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:19 PM
As much as i'd like to think of myself as an internationalist, i cant help but feel proud about my country. I guess everyone feels the same way.

I suppose for now we should try to limit our patriotism from developing into nationalism, which is the hatred against others instead of being proud of urself.
Whoa, what? Since when does nationalism equal hatred of others? Is there something inherently bad about devtion to ithe nterests and/or culture of my own nation, provided those interests are not objectively harmful to others? Some may beleive that nationalism means believing that your country is superior to another, but by no means engenders hatred on the people of those other countries.

Nationalism is just a victim of manipulation by history's demagogues.



On the matter of pride, I feel that I am certainly entitled to take pride in personal accomplishments or achievments. Whether pride is justified or not hinges on whatever the pride is being taken in, which in itself tends to be situation-specific and subjective.

[Taiga]

To be proud of your country or nationality or skin color is as stupid as to be proud of fact that you were born on Sunday.
But to be proud of your deeds and achievements -- I see nothing bad in this. It's natural. Self-approvement is a very good thing. Not arrogance, though.

[che-Rabbi]

good point, be proud of being Christian..no. Be proud of being a charitable or (i hate this expression) a good christian, well thats just fine with me..

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I have no problem with pride in your country heritage, like it or not it has influenced the traits of your society/group heavily for good in a lot of ways (the non political things, the nice side).

You shouldnt let government get in the way of feeling good about your country. They are entirely seperate.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 08:36 PM
I don't know that this is actually a philosophical question, but what do you think about pride?
Alright, I will just come out and state my perspective on this issue:

Pride in accompishments - You are proud of what you do

Pride, inherent - Proud to be white, black, male, American, heterosexual, tall, old, etc...

Inherent pride is arrogance/supremacy. Even if you do not directly think "you are better" than others, you are raising your status, thereby effectively lowering the value of others.

Pride in accomplishments is pride you earn, something that does rationally set you apart from others and does change who you are in a fashion. If you are making a legitimate contribution to yourself or others, you should feel good about it.


I have pride in the fact that I am Native American/Mexican Mestizo, but this did make me think. I didn't choose to be Native or Mexican, so should I be proud of my culture? And does it matter whether or not I'm proud of it?

This is really different; I don't really like people using the word pride in this way but people can be proud that they stand up for their customs and people.
This is much different than saying "I am great because I am Native American/Mexican Mestizo."
So pride can be a very confusing word...


And what about being proud about doing a good job on a test, or doing something else successfully.

Accomplishments; way to go!


Or how about those people who put those bumper stickers on their cars saying their kid is on the honor role, or has perfect attendence? What are they proud for? It's not like they're the one who's on the honor role.

This goes back to how you use the word pride, this could mean that they support their kid, that they value the efforts of their children or are just bragging (maybe they want to take credit).


And would they put a bumper sticker on their car saying their kid is always absent from school and is a D student?

They likely would not. I would say people should always support their children; school is not everything and people that make it so, sicken me.


Does it matter that we choose what we're proud of and what we're ashamed of?

Yes, very much.


Should we be proud of anything?

You should be proud off your accomplishments.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

How can you be proud of your heritage? In opposition to that stands, that you believe that others should be ashamed of their heritage. Thus it's safe to say, only racists can be proud of their heritage.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Not at all, I am proud of my heritage and do not conclude that others are rubbish. I'm sorry what you just said is absurd.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Pedro Alonso [email protected] 29 2005, 07:52 AM
Not at all, I am proud of my heritage and do not conclude that others are rubbish. I'm sorry what you just said is absurd.
Is this pride in how you where born or relivant actions you take? People should specify as it makes a big difference...

[rice349]

While personally i think pride in something so abstract is rather foolish, that does not mean it cannot be manipulated to our advantage. For instance, almost all successful communist/socialist revolutions have involved to some degree, a blend of marxism and national liberation (which could be seen as a more leftist form of nationalism). The Cuban revolution used nationalism in dealing with hegemony and imperialism from the U.S. The Vietnamese (National Liberation Front), pretty self-explanatory. Mao used some nationalism with a blend of marxist-leninism in his battles with the Japanese, part of the reason he was so successful at gaining followers beyond the benefits of communism.

While it seems absurd, for some reaon it appeals to people and maintains a powerful grasp over them, therefore, it should be exploited to the fullest extent. How? I don't have an answer for that at this time.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 29 2005, 02:08 PM

Is this pride in how you where born or relivant actions you take? People should specify as it makes a big difference...

I dont get it, it is pride in heritage, community, achievements of the community, good things it has done along with shame for the bads things.

Pride is only a sin in old religion there.

I dont see anything in communism to suggest pride in a country should be abolished, and dont say internationalism, the two do not exclude one another.

Do not let rascists and bigots steal anything from you.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

So you do feel that certain people should be ashamed of their heritage?


I dont get it, it is pride in heritage, community, achievements of the community, good things it has done along with shame for the bads things.

And why would anyone feel any bit of responsibility for the actions taken by his ancestors? Should the offspring pay for actions taken by his ancestors?

rice

Although nationalist pride can be very handy on a short term notice, it negativly influences a movement on a long term. It's an obstacle towards international socialism/communism/anarchism whatever.

Instead of that, we should promote workingclass pride. Not a Chinese man's battle against a Japanese, but a workingclass battle against the capitalist class. This is way more effective in uniting workingclass members from both sides against the common enemy.

I believe that using nationalism in combination with socialism can be very damaging. An example of this would be the national-bolsheviks. They represent the extreme of an existesting sentiment in Russia. A nationalist sentiment together with the redness of socialism. Utterly disgusting.

[{GR}Raine]

I think pride, as in personal pride is one of the ways capitalism exploits peopl,e by threatening thier pride. However, simply being prideful for some of your accomplishments, or having minor pride for your country is perfectly fine. However, "America or DIE!!!" is ignorance, not pride.

[OleMarxco]

Although I don't HAVE to be prided of my country (Norway) and YES I didn't choose to get born or get the choiche to be born here, but for the land I have been born IN - looking at our history and now since I don't have much choiche I can look back and say - well it isn't THAT such of a bad country to be livin' in, so perhaps I should be proud of what our story used to be. Vikings. Bah....but now, it's only watered-down pro-USA christiany! FUCK! Okay, maybe not so proud. BUT: I'd be just as prideful if I'd been born anywhere, if so been. I could've been born anywhere. Who knows? ;)

[RedAnarchist]

Pride is the mask behind which lies a dangerous thing - an egomaniac.

Why be proud that you were born on a certain peice of mud?
Why be proud of your looks? They last for only 40 or so years - you can last for 100.


Of course you can be proud in some ways. You can be proud of your heritage. Just remember - it may be your heritage. Doesnt make it any better or worse than anyone elses.

[pandora]

What a bunch of shit, "fuck oh yeah I'm {imagine hick voice} Proud to be from the U.S. of A with enough White European blood so that people can't tell I gotta lot of African and Asian and Native blood running around in there and I can still get a job ye-ah! "

That's the typical U.S. response, if you have culture hide it in the melting pot so you can bow down to the Capitalist demigod. Oh yeah, I'm Hispanic, see I eat this food, and my grandfather speaks Spanish, oh but shit I don't because we need ENGLISH only to get greenbacks.

I do like the idea of reincarnation, because some Bible belt thumper has this kind of pride and lives off his retirement before they cut off social security, as Robert Thurman likes to point out, he does it all right, gets out of everything just in time, nice condo in Florida, waves the little American Flag, then he dies, only to be reborn in Mexico on the border by a single maquidora mother and has to sell chicklets in the street to buy food.

Bottom line, don't have pride in anything you didn't earn, your looks, your color, your culture, your nation, your body, it's all lent to you doesn't mean shit, except that you're lucky to have been born somewhere where you had the resources to get a computer! And if you were born in poverty somewhere else, your ass would be huffing glue until the night shift when you could sell your ass for some drugs and food to eat before you conked out in the sewer as the only safe place to hide from getting robbed.

It's all a genetic crap shoot doesn't mean shit! That's why I used to love NYC because back in the old days people remembered the recessions and depressions well enough to always give money to the man on the street, because two pay checks and your ass is next on the bench! No matter who you are. Trump once told Marla pointing to a bum I am a hundred million dollars more in debt than that guy, it's just I can borrow more money. If it all falls through some of those clowns even know they can be the next guy on the street. Now you get these proud fucks who think it won't happen to them :lol: Everybody gets screwed sometimes, if you don'[t than what a boring life you must lead.

Pride is a bunch of crude.

[OleMarxco]

AMEN, BROTHER! :D