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KrazyRabidSheep
18th February 2005, 00:16
This is very clearly defined as torture and a war crime.
This is an example of a torture used by Thomas de Torquemada.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...risoner_s_death (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20050217/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraqi_prisoner_s_death)

AP: Iraqi Died While Hung From Wrists

Thu Feb 17, 3:58 PM ET

By SETH HETTENA, Associated Press Writer

SAN DIEGO - An Iraqi whose corpse was photographed with grinning U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib died under CIA (news - web sites) interrogation while in a position condemned by human rights groups as torture — suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back, according to reports reviewed by The Associated Press.



The death of the prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, became known last year when the Abu Ghraib prison scandal broke. The U.S. military said back then that the death had been ruled a homicide. But the exact circumstances under which the man died were not disclosed at the time.

The prisoner died in a position known as "Palestinian hanging," the documents reviewed by The AP show. It is unclear whether that position was approved by the Bush administration for use in CIA interrogations.

The spy agency, which faces congressional scrutiny over its detention and interrogation of terror suspects at the Baghdad prison and elsewhere, declined to comment for this story, as did the Justice Department (news - web sites).

Al-Jamadi was one of the CIA's "ghost" detainees at Abu Ghraib — prisoners being held secretly by the agency.

His death in November 2003 became public with the release of photos of Abu Ghraib guards giving a thumbs-up over his bruised and puffy-faced corpse, which had been packed in ice. One of those guards was Pvt. Charles Graner, who last month received 10 years in a military prison for abusing detainees.

Al-Jamadi died in a prison shower room during about a half-hour of questioning, before interrogators could extract any information, according to the documents, which consist of statements from Army prison guards to investigators with the military and the CIA's Inspector General's office.

One Army guard, Sgt. Jeffery Frost, said the prisoner's arms were stretched behind him in a way he had never before seen. Frost told investigators he was surprised al-Jamadi's arms "didn't pop out of their sockets," according to a summary of his interview.

Frost and other guards had been summoned to reposition al-Jamadi, who an interrogator said was not cooperating. As the guards released the shackles and lowered al-Jamadi, blood gushed from his mouth "as if a faucet had been turned on," according to the interview summary.

The military pathologist who ruled the case a homicide found several broken ribs and concluded al-Jamadi died from pressure to the chest and difficulty breathing.

Dr. Michael Baden, a distinguished civilian pathologist who reviewed the autopsy for a defense attorney in the case, agreed in an interview that the position in which al-Jamadi was suspended could have contributed to his death.

Dr. Vincent Iacopino, director of research for Physicians for Human Rights, called the hyper-extension of the arms behind the back "clear and simple torture." The European Court of Human Rights found Turkey guilty of torture in 1996 in a case of Palestinian hanging — a technique Iacopino said is used worldwide but named for its alleged use by Israel in the Palestinian territories.

The Washington Post reported last year that after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, the CIA suspended the use of its "enhanced interrogation techniques," including stress positions, because of fears that the agency could be accused of unsanctioned and illegal activity. The newspaper said the White House had approved the tactics.

Navy SEALs apprehended al-Jamadi as a suspect in the Oct. 27, 2003, bombing of Red Cross offices in Baghdad that killed 12 people. His alleged role in the bombing is unclear. According to court documents and testimony, the SEALs punched, kicked and struck al-Jamadi with their rifles before handing him over to the CIA early on Nov. 4. By 7 a.m., al-Jamadi was dead.

Navy prosecutors in San Diego have charged nine SEALs and one sailor with abusing al-Jamadi and others. All but two lieutenants have received nonjudicial punishment; one lieutenant is scheduled for court-martial in March, the other is awaiting a hearing before the Navy's top SEAL.

The statements from five of Abu Ghraib's Army guards were shown to The AP by an attorney for one of the SEALs, who said they offered a more balanced picture of what happened. The lawyer asked not to be identified, saying he feared repercussions for his client.

According to the statements:



Al-Jamadi was brought naked below the waist to the prison with a CIA interrogator and translator. A green plastic bag covered his head, and plastic cuffs tightly bound his wrists. Guards dressed al-Jamadi in an orange jumpsuit, slapped on metal handcuffs and escorted him to the shower room, a common CIA interrogation spot.

There, the interrogator instructed guards to attach shackles from the prisoner's handcuffs to a barred window. That would let al-Jamadi stand without pain, but if he tried to lower himself, his arms would be stretched above and behind him.

The documents do not make clear what happened after guards left. After about a half-hour, the interrogator called for the guards to reposition the prisoner, who was slouching with his arms stretched behind him.

The interrogator told guards that al-Jamadi was "playing possum" — faking it — and then watched as guards struggled to get him on his feet. But the guards realized it was useless.

"After we found out he was dead, they were nervous," Spc. Dennis E. Stevanus said of the CIA interrogator and translator. "They didn't know what the hell to do."

Ele'ill
18th February 2005, 01:42
That is terrible. I think the reason the US pushed for the vote in iraq was so they can say 'hey, we're not bad, the vote succeded and they asked us to leave'. In truth, they are losing this war. Troops are dying every day and they have lost any popularity they had going for them. The Bush administration is slipping and they know it. As does the world.

Phalanx
18th February 2005, 01:59
the U$ world image has gone drastically down since Abu Gharib. But when they claim to be an army that tries to reduce civilian casualties but continues to use cluster bombs, what can they expect?

Ele'ill
18th February 2005, 02:00
and depleted uranium <_<

Socialist_Smurf
19th February 2005, 20:05
Strange...i live in the US and i have yet to hear anything about this....Love that media&#33; Actually to add to what Mari3L stated, bush has said that they will leave once the Iraqi government askes them to. Mmm..chances of this happening are slim to none but somehow bush got re-elected....*sigh*, the media cover-up of nearly everything here is disgracefull, i&#39;m sure this story was replaced by a shocking new Paris Hilton gossip story...stupid bastard media....

Ele'ill
19th February 2005, 23:38
There was a reported coverup in falluja reguarding the depleted uranium. Have not heard much since. I think GNN covered it partially. Anyway yes, the iraqi&#39;s want the US out. Does not matter if it&#39;s Shiite or Sunni. Those that most despised the saddam regeim are the ones that most despise the bush administration.

Anarchist Freedom
22nd February 2005, 15:55
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(

bolshevik butcher
22nd February 2005, 16:20
Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:55 PM
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(
what do you expect from the cappitalists? condemnation?

h&s
22nd February 2005, 16:30
Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:55 PM
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(
But which country could actually say that with honesty? France? Russia? Didn&#39;t think so - they both do exactly the same sort of things and actually rely on the US on doing bad stuff like this so that they can get away with similar stuff, so long as it is less extreme.

Hodgeh
22nd February 2005, 21:08
Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:55 PM
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(
Why do you hate America? Don&#39;t you like your freedom? It&#39;s neccassary to effectively combat the terrorists. Wouldn&#39;t you rather be fighting them over there instead of hear in America?

Raisa
22nd February 2005, 22:11
How many of the terrorists have come from Iraq?

RedStarOverChina
22nd February 2005, 23:23
its getting more and more ironic lately to hear George Bush worshippers talking about freedom.

Dwarf Kirlston
23rd February 2005, 00:32
Originally posted by Hodgeh+Feb 22 2005, 09:08 PM--> (Hodgeh @ Feb 22 2005, 09:08 PM)
Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:55 PM
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(
Why do you hate America? Don&#39;t you like your freedom? It&#39;s neccassary to effectively combat the terrorists. Wouldn&#39;t you rather be fighting them over there instead of hear in America? [/b]
a capitalist in our midst :huh: - :lol:

"why do you hate america?" -he said nothing about hating anything.
"Don&#39;t you like your freedom?" -because his freedom is based on fighting these "terrorists" or "insurgents" or "Iraqis" or "poor innocent civilians" :ph34r:

Iepilei
23rd February 2005, 00:46
I&#39;m sort of mixed when it comes to the concept of torture to extract information. No agency has ever been above it; it&#39;s been a part of society for ages.

It&#39;s HORRIBLE. Don&#39;t get me wrong.

dso79
23rd February 2005, 14:37
It’s not only horrible, it’s also very ineffective; torture rarely ever leads to reliable information.

Torture is a Problem, Not a Solution (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7813.htm)

Non-Sectarian Bastard!
23rd February 2005, 14:54
Originally posted by Hodgeh+Feb 22 2005, 10:08 PM--> (Hodgeh @ Feb 22 2005, 10:08 PM)
Anarchist [email protected] 22 2005, 03:55 PM
jeez this is sad. Its rediculous how the U&#036; can defy the geneva convention. Yet still no one has the balls to say to the U&#036; HEY your out of line&#33; :angry: :(
Why do you hate America? Don&#39;t you like your freedom? It&#39;s neccassary to effectively combat the terrorists. Wouldn&#39;t you rather be fighting them over there instead of hear in America? [/b]
Define terrorists.

Third point. A small correction. Iraq wasn&#39;t about to invade the US, the US regime invaded Iraq. There are no gun battles in the streets of New York between the Iraqi army and American insurgents. The opposite is happening.

Anarchist Freedom
23rd February 2005, 16:31
The us Military has certain standards that they are held to in the world. But they show time and time again that they cannot maintain the responsibility of a world power.

KrazyRabidSheep
25th February 2005, 02:46
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 09:08 PM
Why do you hate America? Don&#39;t you like your freedom? It&#39;s neccassary to effectively combat the terrorists. Wouldn&#39;t you rather be fighting them over there instead of hear in America?
I&#39;d rather be the victim then the sinner.

Oh, by the way, you need to work on your grammer. . .it&#39;s "here in America", not "hear".