OK...

[Dwarf Kirlston]

Does democracy work everywhere? Germany uses anti-nazi freedom restricting measures. Many communists believe that it takes authoritarianism to move a country to the point where it can be democratic.

Anarchy? Sounds very different from the libertarians I know. No want of unions with them.

[RedLenin]

If by libertarians you are reffering to ancaps (anarcho-capitaists, who aren't real anarchists) then yes they are very different. They aren't really libertarian, just extremely right wing. I don't quite understand your question on democracy could you rephraze it?

[LSD]

Does democracy work everywhere?

Yes.


Germany uses anti-nazi freedom restricting measures.

That's a questionable, but certainly understandable, reaction to that whole genocide phase Germany went through about 60 odd years ago.

But I hardly see what that has to do with democracy in general.

Certainly no one is suggesting that should Germany reallow the Swastika, fascists would sweep the country!


Many communists believe that it takes authoritarianism to move a country to the point where it can be democratic.

Simply put, they're wrong.

That "tract" has been taken, many times. It doesn't work.

I mean, honestly... HERE! We the people surrender all of our power and freedom to you, oh great leader and subjugate ourselves entirely to your will..... you're going to give that power back, right? RIGHT?!?!!?...


Anarchy? Sounds very different from the libertarians I know. No want of unions with them.

Well, cobra90x already covered that.

So-called "Libertarians" (Cato types and the like) are basically anarcho-capitalists. i.e., no government, "free" market.

True Anarchism means no oppression/hierarchy of any kind. It doesn't distinguish between political oppression and economic because, ultimately, there's no real difference.

[Dwarf Kirlston]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid Diethylamide"+--> (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide")True Anarchism means no oppression/hierarchy of any kind. It doesn't distinguish between political oppression and economic because, ultimately, there's no real difference.[/b]
...this confuses me a bit...

How exactly do you get rid of the economic opression? I understand the government then must play a part.


"myself"
Does democracy work everywhere? The power of Corruption, Propaganda, slanted presentation of news makes me doubt that does. Especially in places where there is little education/learnedness, and therefore little ability to choose their own leaders. There have been [whatchacall them] "good dictators" in history. How does anarchism counterplay that yet maintaning the lack of hierarchies?

[LSD]

How exactly do you get rid of the economic opression? I understand the government then must play a part.

No capitalism.

No governmen.


You don't need a "government" to remove economic oppression, you merely need a popular revolution to overthrow the rulling class. All decisions regarding society can then be made by that society as a whole rather than by the "leaders" or "vanguard" or "representatives".


There have been [whatchacall them] "good dictators" in history.

Name them.


The power of Corruption, Propaganda, slanted presentation of news makes me doubt that does. Especially in places where there is little education/learnedness, and therefore little ability to choose their own leaders.

Which is precisely why there should be no leaders.

An-arch-y. ------> No Hierarchy At All.

No "leaders".


How does anarchism counterplay that yet maintaning the lack of hierarchies?

"counterplay"?

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

What Anarchism offers over "good dictators" is well ....no dictator.

Power does corrupt, and giving that power to anyone even a "good dictator" is a very dangerous act.

[TheKwas]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 19 2005, 10:56 PM



There have been [whatchacall them] "good dictators" in history.

Name them.

I'd give it to Peron, as far as dictators go, he wasn't a bad guy.

[October Revolution]

Hmmm ofcourse he wasn&#39;t and neither was Stalin or Pol Pot <_<

[LSD]

I&#39;d give it to Peron, as far as dictators go, he wasn&#39;t a bad guy.

"as far as dictators go"?

So does that mean he only kinda oppressed his people?

Or that he oppressed his people with love :wub:?

:lol:&#33;

[October Revolution]

:lol: Oh ofcourse it must have been love because he would never have hurt anyone thorough anyother means :lol: what a lovely man he was.

[Dwarf Kirlston]

Originally posted by "Lysergic Acid Diethylamide"
You don&#39;t need a "government" to remove economic oppression, you merely need a popular revolution to overthrow the rulling class. All decisions regarding society can then be made by that society as a whole rather than by the "leaders" or "vanguard" or "representatives".
How would such a revolution take place? how could it be organized?

"society as a whole"=democracy

so you support democracy first and communism second?

how can anarchy exist? - how do people organize themselves without a leader when in the millions? - how would people react to war? - what about technological wars?

[LSD]

so you support democracy first and communism second?

Are you suggesting that they are mutually exclusive?

I assure you they are not.

In fact democracy is a prerequisite for communism and communism a prerequisite for democracy.


how would people react to war? - what about technological wars?

If war came, the people can organize themselves into temporary popular militias, we hardly need a "government&#39; for that.

The same is a true for "technological wars" as for any other.


how do people organize themselves without a leader when in the millions?

Democratically.

[Morpheus]

Dwarf Kirlston, the essay Basic Principles of Anarchism (http://question-everything.mahost.org/Socio-Politics/BasicAnarchy.html) will probably answer most of your questions about Anarchy. And if you have others you can find answers at http://www.anarchyfaq.org Here&#39;s a few short answers, for a more detailed explanation see those two URLs.


How would such a revolution take place? how could it be organized?

We all refuse to obey the state, take over our workplaces, and form alternative non-hierarchical organizations to run society. If the state/capitalists use force to try and make us obey them (which they probably will) then we use force to defend ourselves, either killing them or defeating them so that they surrender.


how can anarchy exist?

I don&#39;t understand this question.


how do people organize themselves without a leader when in the millions?

By using self-organization, popular assemblies & confederations/spokescouncils, ie. "flat" non-hierarchical organizations in which everyone has equal power.


how would people react to war?

War should be abolished, and would be abolished if the whole world was anarchist (as there would be no states to wage war on each other). If only part of the world was anarchist and the capitalist part invaded we could defend ourselves by arming the population and fighting a guerilla war.


what about technological wars?

I&#39;m not sure what you mean. Do you mean wars with advanced weapons technology? The same basic principles apply as to low-tech wars.