Class and Class Mobility

[enigma2517]

Just read this (http://www.redapollo.org/articles/tmdown-maxim.pdf)

My father says that social classes are gradually disappearing. First, the immergence of a middle class, petit-bourgeosie professionals such as lawyers, who both own and run their small businesses. They don't hire others or "exploit" them...they simply work for themselves.

Some other common arguments that he has presented to me are:

Aren't workers gaining more rights everyday? From the 8 hour workday to workman's compensation, isn't capitalism constantly improving? Won't it eventually get to the point where it will simply evolve into something else? Or is there a glass ceilling?

Who says there is a lack of oppertunity? If you put forth effort and do good in school you can easily get one of the numerous scholarships floating around out there. Many of them are specifically aimed at disadvantaged people. This seems to be where it all starts...education is a bigger determination of the kind of job you have. Sure you won't go anywhere being a janitor, but why not avoid that altogether and go to college?

My answer: Regardless, somebody has to be a janitor...or in a wider sense, somebody always has to be on bottom. And while there may be some scholarships out there, there isn't one for everybody.

Don't know where I'm really goin with this but could you guys help me out and basically explain how classes still exist (mention the rising inequity in real wages perhaps?) and how class mobility is really a myth and why somebody can't make it to the top just from "hard work".

All help and input appreciated thanks.

Edit:

What about acquiring capital? Can't you get a small loan from a bank to start your own business, which from there can grow and help you accumulate more capital to expand, etc. etc.

[Iepilei]

The problem you're not seeing is, just because the market-value for a particular service happens to be low, that doesn't mean that it's not needed.

Corporatism in our country is vastly expanding to encompass those who have the ability of "capital manipulation." Not to say "workers rights" but their participation in the market system as a whole. The problem with the market system, however, is it doesn't express limitations on production. Market systems work based on the fact that you "build alot of some random shit, affix a catchy logo, and sell for 4x it's worth."

I shutter at the thought of how much oil product is used by the music and movie industry, yearly.

The market economy doesn't concern itself with longevity, it's in it for the quick buck.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by enigma2517
My father says that social classes are gradually disappearing.

He's wrong.

Here is a fascinating article from The Economist -- the most intelligent magazine that the capitalists publish.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayS...tory_id=3518560 (http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3518560)


Aren't workers gaining more rights everyday? From the 8 hour workday to workman's compensation, isn't capitalism constantly improving?

The "8-hour day" is only a memory. People with full-time jobs rarely work less than 9, 10, or more hours these days...and are, with increasing frequency, cheated out of their overtime pay and even their base pay. Sometimes employers are prosecuted or sued...and compelled to disgorge their plunder. But if you go that route...then your job is history.

The only people likely to work eight or fewer hours per day are temporary workers. Temps receive low wages and no benefits...and are usually hired on a daily basis through an agency. When the employer no longer needs them, they're out on the street.

And they rarely qualify for unemployment benefits.

They live a "hand-to-mouth" existence...literally.


If you put forth effort and do good in school you can easily get one of the numerous scholarships floating around out there.

Mythology. There are far more people who want to go to college than there are scholarships...and the scholarships themselves are usually grossly inadequate.

Many working class kids go to college on the basis of federally-insured student loans...the catch is that the loans haunt your existence for the rest of your life. You can't even escape them through filing bankruptcy.


Can't you get a small loan from a bank to start your own business, which from there can grow and help you accumulate more capital to expand, etc. etc.?

Banks generally don't like unsecured loans. They might lend you the money to buy a house or a car...because if you stop making payments, they can take that stuff back.

An unsecured loan to start a small business is extremely rare...they'd have to approve your business plan, recognize your expertise and reputation, etc. And they'd certainly want to see your own money in the project; i.e., if you want to borrow $100,000, they'd certainly expect at least $100,000 of your own cash on the table as well.

A famous chef, for example, could probably get a bank loan to open a new luxury restaurant fairly easily. They're not going to lend any money to you for that purpose.

Most really small new businesses in America (and probably elsewhere) are based on the accumulated savings of an extended family...and the hope that the business will catch on before the savings run out.

At best, it's a 50-50 bet...half of all new businesses fail in their first year and very few manage to last even five years.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Raisa]

It doesnt matter about "class mobility"


It doesnt change the fact that this system NEEDS a lower class in order to exist reguardless!

There cant be more bosses then workers.