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Capitalist Lawyer
11th February 2005, 16:27
PARIS, Feb 5 (Reuters) - French President Jacques Chirac's conservative government faced a major challenge to its economic policies on Saturday as tens of thousands of public and private sector workers protested over labour laws, pensions and schools.

With more than 50,000 taking to the streets in provincial cities, organisers said they hoped for a national turnout of at least 300,000 nationwide to ram home their message.

"The government would do well not only to hear but to listen to the workers," said the secretary-general of the CGT union, Bernard Thibault, at the start of the rally in Paris.

The protests come as parliament debates a government plan to allow staff in the private sector to increase overtime and work up to 48 hours a week, the maximum allowed under EU law. But managers must first agree the changes with unions.


Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin says rules must be relaxed to help cut stubbornly high unemployment, currently close to 10 percent, and make the world's fifth largest economy more competitive.

Four of France's five major unions called Saturday's protests against reforms they say would sound the death knell of the 35-hour week and result in longer hours without extra pay.

"Chirac, Raffarin, are you sleeping? Your workers are in the street," chanted demonstrators in Toulouse in southwest France.

The 35-hour week was introduced in 1998 by the previous Socialist administration in an effort to reduce joblessness. The party has called on Raffarin to abandon his reform and re-open negotiations with the unions.


Let me get this straight... a 35 hour work week was introduced 7 years ago to reduce joblessness, and now, the same government is wanting to up the workweek and include ( gasp !! ) overtime, to reduce high unemployment...

Excuse me why I laugh, gag, etc.... The socialists just DON'T GET IT...

redstar2000
11th February 2005, 16:40
Originally posted by Capitalist Lawyer
Excuse me why I laugh, gag, etc.... The socialists just DON'T GET IT...

Your bewilderment is understandable.

Perhaps I can help by explaining that the "Socialist" Party of France hasn't actually been socialist for six decades or more.

Or that the American Democratic Party hasn't been democratic since...1975.

You have to look beneath the labels to see what's in the package.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

t_wolves_fan
11th February 2005, 16:47
Perhaps I can help by explaining that the "Socialist" Party of France hasn't actually been socialist for six decades or more.

Yeah man, they've like required people to get jobs and stuff. It's a real drag man.

dakewlguy
12th February 2005, 19:07
I agree with the changes in law and all, but I'm also fairly certain that the current ruling party in France is Conservative not Socialist.

Sabocat
12th February 2005, 22:58
Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 11 2005, 12:27 PM

PARIS, Feb 5 (Reuters) - French President Jacques Chirac's conservative government faced a major challenge to its economic policies on Saturday as tens of thousands of public and private sector workers protested over labour laws, pensions and schools.

With more than 50,000 taking to the streets in provincial cities, organisers said they hoped for a national turnout of at least 300,000 nationwide to ram home their message.

"The government would do well not only to hear but to listen to the workers," said the secretary-general of the CGT union, Bernard Thibault, at the start of the rally in Paris.

The protests come as parliament debates a government plan to allow staff in the private sector to increase overtime and work up to 48 hours a week, the maximum allowed under EU law. But managers must first agree the changes with unions.


Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin says rules must be relaxed to help cut stubbornly high unemployment, currently close to 10 percent, and make the world's fifth largest economy more competitive.

Four of France's five major unions called Saturday's protests against reforms they say would sound the death knell of the 35-hour week and result in longer hours without extra pay.

"Chirac, Raffarin, are you sleeping? Your workers are in the street," chanted demonstrators in Toulouse in southwest France.

The 35-hour week was introduced in 1998 by the previous Socialist administration in an effort to reduce joblessness. The party has called on Raffarin to abandon his reform and re-open negotiations with the unions.


Let me get this straight... a 35 hour work week was introduced 7 years ago to reduce joblessness, and now, the same government is wanting to up the workweek and include ( gasp !! ) overtime, to reduce high unemployment...

Excuse me why I laugh, gag, etc.... The socialists just DON'T GET IT...
You're the same assholes who said this same shit when the unions here were fighting to get a 60 hour week reduced to 40 and to get rid of child employment here in the U.S.

Imagine the French worker not wanting to give up a 35 hour week so that he can spend more time at work than with his friends and family and perhaps even have a little quality of life. Not only work more hours, but probably for less hourly wage and benefits too. What dolts.


And by the way, it wasn't 50,000 people protesting, it was 500,000. And longer work week hours don't decrease unemployment, they increase it.


A different perspective (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/fran-f09.shtml)

Publius
12th February 2005, 23:21
Child labor and 60 hour workweek were almost non existant by the time the government got around to legislating them.

The labor unions were slighly more helpful but weren't the deciding factor because there was never a very high union membership rate.

The free market solved the problem.


And longer work week hours don't decrease unemployment, they increase it.


Incorrect. It will increase production which will cause companies to hire more workers.

Remember this: The entire concept of a government telling you what hours you can and cannot work is ludicrous. The government does not know how many hours I should work. I do. This and ANY law on working hours are an abridgement of freedom.

Sabocat
12th February 2005, 23:30
Incorrect. It will increase production which will cause companies to hire more workers.

:lol:

So there isn't enough work in France to eliminate the current pool of unemployment, meaning there is an excess of labor and yet working longer hours will result in the hiring of more employees?




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Publius
12th February 2005, 23:37
If more people are making more money, they will purchase more stuff causing production to increase causing the demand for labor to go up.

As it is now, production isn't growing, causing unemployment to stay high.

Invader Zim
13th February 2005, 01:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 12:37 AM
If more people are making more money, they will purchase more stuff causing production to increase causing the demand for labor to go up.

As it is now, production isn't growing, causing unemployment to stay high.
That is assuming that the market currently demands the surplus this increase in production will generate.

Publius
13th February 2005, 01:07
That is assuming that the market currently demands the surplus this increase in production will generate.

But the increased pay would stimulate the economy.

dakewlguy
13th February 2005, 01:28
Imagine the French worker not wanting to give up a 35 hour week so that he can spend more time at work than with his friends and family and perhaps even have a little quality of life. Not only work more hours, but probably for less hourly wage and benefits too. What dolts.

If he doesn't want to work more than 35 hours, he doesn't have to. All hours over the 35 mark are entirely optional and cannot be forced upon workers.



So there isn't enough work in France to eliminate the current pool of unemployment, meaning there is an excess of labor and yet working longer hours will result in the hiring of more employees?
Yes, in many ways.
1. Workers will have higher incomes, meaning aggregate demand will rise, businesses will recieve more money and expand.
2. Businesses will become more efficiant, again increasing the likelyhood that they will expand and employ more people.

New Tolerance
13th February 2005, 02:46
If he doesn't want to work more than 35 hours, he doesn't have to. All hours over the 35 mark are entirely optional and cannot be forced upon workers.


optional? How does that work? (negotiations?)

Publius
13th February 2005, 02:50
You and your employer determine your work hours.

Anarchist Freedom
13th February 2005, 02:52
35 hour workweek damn now that would be nice.

dakewlguy
13th February 2005, 11:19
Originally posted by New [email protected] 13 2005, 02:46 AM

optional? How does that work? (negotiations?)
Yeah, basically you can work more overtime:

Under the reform, the standard working week will remain 35 hours, but staff in the private sector will be able to strike deals with management to work up to 13 hours of overtime.

Sabocat
13th February 2005, 13:23
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 09:07 PM


That is assuming that the market currently demands the surplus this increase in production will generate.

But the increased pay would stimulate the economy.
:blink:


*bangs head on table*

Invader Zim
13th February 2005, 14:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 02:07 AM


That is assuming that the market currently demands the surplus this increase in production will generate.

But the increased pay would stimulate the economy.
On an internal level, sure. But I would imagine that France's biggest market for many of these products is the foreign market.

*bangs head on table*

I am rather purplexed by his idea there, as well.

This whole process would take time, and if this were for an internal market, then the prices would decrease with the limited demand and higher output, which would at least temporarily dampen the market.

Anarchist Freedom
13th February 2005, 18:42
Capitalism works in a circle. More money spent=More jobs for workers due to demand= Higher pay.

New Tolerance
13th February 2005, 19:32
With one problem being that "higher pay" <> "higher purchasing power" due to inflation caused by positional goods.

dakewlguy
13th February 2005, 21:23
With one problem being that "higher pay" <> "higher purchasing power" due to inflation caused by positional goods.

Growth in France is lacking at the moment though. That&#39;s the whole reason for this work hours reform. To hopefully boost GDP. Inflation may rise slightly but improvements on the supply-side of goods - lower costs because of better efficiancy - should offset this.

dakewlguy
13th February 2005, 21:24
Welcome to page 2.


Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 13 2005, 06:42 PM
Capitalism works in a circle. More money spent=More jobs for workers due to demand= Higher pay.
Yeah, pretty much every aspect of the economy affects all other aspects of the economy. Exchange rate, inflation, interest rates, employment, they&#39;re all very much interdependant.

New Tolerance
13th February 2005, 21:38
Growth in France is lacking at the moment though. That&#39;s the whole reason for this work hours reform. To hopefully boost GDP. Inflation may rise slightly but improvements on the supply-side of goods - lower costs because of better efficiancy - should offset this.

I was talking about positional goods only.