North Korea admitts Nuclear capable

[Domingo]

I saw it in the news this morning.

First off: Why would N. Korea do such a thing? Talk about drawing attention to you! America and its allies will be riding thier asses for the next couple of months. Does this make Communist states look like friend? Of course not, it makes them look like a threat to America and its friends,but atleast it lets them know that Communist states have power still.

Why did they go public and give me a perspective on what you think will happen.

This will be an intresting couple of months ahead of us for our Communist friends.

[monkeydust]

North Korea is not communist. It is a quasi-socialist oriental despotism.

As for their supposed move in announcing nuclear weapons capability (Do you have a link?), it's not necessarily a bad idea - at least in terms of their own interest. If the US knows North Korea has nuclear capability, the odds of them attacking her are greatly reduced.

[refuse_resist]

I heard it too and I think this is very good news. What I find hypocritical of the imperialists is that they have huge stockpiles of nuclear warheads as well as other weapons of mass destruction, yet when a country who is under constant military aggression by them wants to develope them they get labeled a 'terrorist state' and a threat to peace. North Korea only wants them as a deterent. Nothing more, nothing less. Chances are they won't use them against anyone because in all their time of being a country they haven't gone out and invaded anyone and they keep their military for national defense only and not to invade others.

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

Firstly, North Korea is posing as a threat. No, it is not a communist state, far from it. It's a plain out dictatorship with some socialist points added to it. It's, in short, the closest thing to Orwell's 1984.

Second, should the United States launch an attack, North Korea would have the option to nuke Tokyo - disrupting the global market (I don't know on what scale).

Bush could also use North Korea as another 9/11. A single strike by North Korea would "justify" nuking them into oblivion.

In either way, we have gotten us the situation "bad versus bad" - using them in any way would mean millions of people killed. And since the majority of the world believes that "communism = Soviet Union, China, North Korea", a strike by North Korea could also be devestating for us.

[MiniOswald]

i very much doubt NK would be attacked, because bush is going down that empire road, one of the things that has kept america going is the fact that is doesnt go 'creating an empire', or a union as the soviets did. This time its gone a bit tits up. Iraq roit, people are already making the link to vietnam because of constant guerilla attacks, at a minimum i would say that america and britain will probably be stuck in iraq for the next....ooo 10 years?, oh dear looks like they aint gna bring our boys home. Now if they had to divert forces to fight other countries, Iran and DPRK being at the top of the list, well theres the loss of money, which america and england already dont have, theres the protest against it, theres these guerilla wars, also these countries might put up a better fight than iraq.

Point is even if it does go ahead, it probably wont work out, and it may spell the end for UK and US. UK pretty soon is going to be penniless, and america, it cant survive forever, someone else will rise, and its probably gna be china.

what else was i gonna say, oh yeah, it might also be more difficult for the US if they provoke the arab states so much that they 'team together', the one thing they could never do before. Doubtful though, the arab states have little brotherhood, look at the Saudi's.

Anyways, why invade DPRK? theres no oil there........

[DaCuBaN]

I reckon you'd all be looking for this thread (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=33360&hl=)

For convenience, I include the link to the original article (http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2005/02/10/north_korea_admits_it_has_nuclear_arms/) as well.

[Domingo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:45 PM
North Korea is not communist. It is a quasi-socialist oriental despotism.

Yes it is. That is just another way of saying "HEY! We are Communist, dont hate us for it.

Regardless of what people think, The UK and US are not going ot run out of money. As long as the President sees that NK is a threat, the US and its allies will spare no cost to take down the threat.

First: Negotiations
Second: Showing that the allies mean it
Third: Have military at the DMZ enforced
Fourth: Attack
Fifth: Counter-attack any thing NK does

Sadly enough, NK will go down just as fast as Iraq. Believe it or not, the US will be pulling out of Iraq in about a year TOPS.

You put up a good point, SMC, Bush would use any attack that NK does as a terrorist action.

Sadly, our "quasi-socialist oriental despotism" friends are in deep crap.

[RedStarOverChina]

As much as i dislike NK, its devolopment of nuclear weapon is justifiable. Its their only chance of surviving American Imperialism. I highly doubt Bush would have the GUTS to invade the nation, knowing that they have nuclear weapon.

[Domingo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:54 PM
As much as i dislike NK, its devolopment of nuclear weapon is justifiable. Its their only chance of surviving American Imperialism. I highly doubt Bush would have the GUTS to invade the nation, knowing that they have nuclear weapon.
Fair enough, but still, was NK stupid for doing that. Bush may not have the guts, but now he has a cause, justifying anything for "keeping-the-peace" or by his words "Seizing communist aggresion."

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

because bush is going down that empire road, one of the things that has kept america going is the fact that is doesnt go 'creating an empire', or a union as the soviets did.

Maybe not an "empire" in the classical sence of conquest and dominating other nations, but a financial empire, well that's another thing.


Iraq roit, people are already making the link to vietnam because of constant guerilla attacks, at a minimum i would say that america and britain will probably be stuck in iraq for the next....ooo 10 years?

What can Iraq become but another Iran - constantly stomping on human rights, killing and slaughtering innocent people? Do we even know if these "freedom fighters" support the Iraqi people? Look at what Vietnam became, another fascist state with a growing market economy. The US "won" anyway.


UK pretty soon is going to be penniless, and america, it cant survive forever, someone else will rise, and its probably gna be china.

Yes, it has been projected that the PR China will be the world's leading financial power by 2050.


Yes it is. That is just another way of saying "HEY! We are Communist, dont hate us for it.

If you ever travel to North Korea, you'll find out that every step you take will be monitored by a guide that follows you WHEREVER you go in North Korea. The second you say something that can be misunderstood as a humiliation towards Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il, you'll go to jail without regards of whatever country you came from.

Does this sound as the idealistical socialist state we all want? A dictatorship?


As long as the President sees that NK is a threat, the US and its allies will spare no cost to take down the threat.

Even if North Korea has the abillity to plunge the world into another depression? One that will be blamed on "communism"?


Sadly, our "quasi-socialist oriental despotism" friends are in deep crap.

The only concern I actually have on North Korea is it's people that will suffer in vain, every other person worldwide that will suffer - not to mention the very spirit of communism, socialism and anarchism will be stomped upon worldwide. As if we haven't enough problems to combat the stalinism and misinterpretations of socialism already...

[Domingo]

Originally posted by Super Mario [email protected] 11 2005, 10:32 PM

The only concern I actually have on North Korea is it's people that will suffer in vain, every other person worldwide that will suffer - not to mention the very spirit of communism, socialism and anarchism will be stomped upon worldwide. As if we haven't enough problems to combat the stalinism and misinterpretations of socialism already...
So very sad but so very true. I was reading some paper saying that Song is the 2nd worst "Communist dictator" in the world. I can believe that the people are already suffering, uselessly. It is very sad.

[October Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:59 PM
Fair enough, but still, was NK stupid for doing that. Bush may not have the guts, but now he has a cause, justifying anything for "keeping-the-peace" or by his words "Seizing communist aggresion."
It can't be that bad a move because even someone as stupid as Bush won't want to start a nuclear war which could happen if he invades. So i think NK is pretty much safe from invasion neway the US wouldn't invade NK for along time simply because there isn't any oil their or atleast not enough for the US to take notice of.

Also NK clearly isn't communist, it's lead by a dictator which means ther must be somekind of class system which means that there must be inequality. Ok maybe Kim Il Sung believes in communism (which i doubt) but that doesn't make the state communist. There has NEVER been one in existence to this date, hopefully one day though.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 02:54 PM
As much as i dislike NK, its devolopment of nuclear weapon is justifiable. Its their only chance of surviving American Imperialism. I highly doubt Bush would have the GUTS to invade the nation, knowing that they have nuclear weapon.
Bush never would have invaded, and these weapons are not to stop invasions but to extort the rest of the world. The reason for the Iraq invasion was without question an economic one, the acquisition of oil rights, North Korea has little of any value to offer the USA, certainly not enough to warrant invasion. For the record the DPKR are not “quasi-socialist”, it is not even close. The only word which can be placed in front of “socialist” in regard to North Korea is “pseudo“, it is a pseudo-socialist nation. Any suggestion that they may be anything other than this is false.

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

Fair enough, but still, was NK stupid for doing that. Bush may not have the guts, but now he has a cause, justifying anything for "keeping-the-peace" or by his words "Seizing communist aggresion."

Though, you don't create nuclear weapons to attack anyone (at least not as a primary objective) but to indeed defend and deter any future attack. South Korea is in the danger zone, so maybe that will keep the US away?


Also NK clearly isn't communist, it's lead by a dictator which means ther must be somekind of class system which means that there must be inequality.

North Korea continued to support the Soviet Union after the Soviet-Sino split during the 1960's. State capitalism is what North Korea is all about. You think Kim Jong-Il ever does anything except sitting in a confortable chair and watching "Pirates of the Carribean" (apparently, Kim Jong-Il is a huge movie-fan)?

I'm not saying that we should disregard his age or something, but when people live like thet do in North Korea, when they defect, flee and escape from that country (not to mention all the reports of NK's kidnapping of other citizens), well that is, to me, a sign of bad government.


Ok maybe Kim Il Sung believes in communism (which i doubt) but that doesn't make the state communist.

North Koreans have their own "brand" of socialism called Juche:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

Actually, it is rather a brand of stalinism, not socialism - a small part of it says that the prolitariat should be "directed" by a leader. And besides, there can't be a "communist state" because there is no state in communism. But there can be a state in socialism.

[Ramshaw is all]

In one way its bad news for me, because more nuclear weapons in unstable countires means more likelyhood that i'm about to be vapourised, however, i think that invading N. Korea was a possibility for Bush because he is such an idiot. And another invasion would have destabilised the world even more. I hope nuclear weapons in N. Korea leads to more diplomacy from more reasonable countries than the US. Maybe then the quality of life for people in N. Korea could improve.

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

In one way its bad news for me, because more nuclear weapons in unstable countires means more likelyhood that i'm about to be vapourised,

Yes and no. As I said, you don't actually build nukes to use them, you build them to freighten your enemies so that they won't even think about invading your country.

On the other side, should there be a situation where the nukes are actually used, then yes, the risk of total global annihilation is possible, and the more nukes, the more the possibility of a nuke hitting your country/community.


And another invasion would have destabilised the world even more.

That is an interesting thing, because destabilisation will lead closer to socialism and world peace... hopefully. The closest thing the world was becoming socialist was right after the Great War (World War 1) - we have never been closer since that period.


I hope nuclear weapons in N. Korea leads to more diplomacy from more reasonable countries than the US.

I'm afraid it won't because of the government of North Korea. North Korea is a dictatorship, and helping them will mean helping a dictator, and an evil son of a beach too...


Maybe then the quality of life for people in N. Korea could improve.

Yes and no, again. Relations and trade with other countries would probably mean food and supplement for all North Koreans, most of whom are starving right now, but it won't end the dictatorship. North Korea would become richer and stronger.

[Ramshaw is all]

Fair enough

[Iepilei]

China should just take North Korea as their own. I have no respect for the actions taken by Kim Jung Ill. He is a traitor to his people.

:ph34r:

[Yazman]

I'm afraid it won't because of the government of North Korea. North Korea is a dictatorship, and helping them will mean helping a dictator, and an evil son of a beach too...

Since when does the west have any qualms about helping dictators? Helping dictators is one of the most important aspects of their survival and credibility - they would not hesitate to do it again.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Good move for North Korea, bad move for America and her South Korean lackeys.

The Americans can't risk NK detonating a nuke on Seoul if things don't go their way in an invasion.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I wish everyone had nuclear weapons.

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

China should just take North Korea as their own. I have no respect for the actions taken by Kim Jung Ill.

Things won't change very much. China is a dictatorship too, and even if they annexed North Korea (somehow), - the people there would get some freedom - but essentially they will be living in another dictatorship - actually, a capitalist paradise. Undemocratic state, free corporatism - the very wet dream of every capitalist.


He is a traitor to his people.

Sad and true - like most stalinist dictators. I still consider Stalin the worst traitor and corruptor of socialist thought. Every revolution after his time was formed after the then stalinist government in the Soviet Union.


Since when does the west have any qualms about helping dictators? Helping dictators is one of the most important aspects of their survival and credibility - they would not hesitate to do it again.

You are very right. They don't care about helping other dictators - the thing is, it all depends on what kind of economy the dictatorship is running under. Planned economy means they're our enemy, chaos economy (the one that is running the global market, globalization and all of those things) means they're our friends.

China, through the eyes of the US government, are "communists", so are Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba, along with Laos. So, why do they differ? Why are the US so eager to "help" Vietnam and China, while they block, restrict and threaten Cuba and North Korea?

It is their economy. As soon as China and Vietnam opened up their markets to the global market, trade was on, help was on it's way, shaking hands, big smiles and expensive cigars. North Korea has it's own system, Juche, and it doesn't share the thoughts of the global market, so does Cuba.

As soon as Cuba applies the chaos market, every blockade, every travel restriction and every bad single word ever said about Castro, Che, Raul or the Cuban government will be forgotten and lifted.

Cuba will then, and only then, be our "friends". Same goes with North Korea.

Interestingly, the question we will have to ask ourselves in all of this, is wheter we want to accept North Korea as "the enemy of my enemy". I'm pretty sure they won't return any favours, for one.