Some questions about Cuba

[RedLenin]

I'm thinking of living in Cuba before the draft comes back but there are a few things I would like to know.

1. What freedoms do I have in Cuba? Can I say Castro sucks and not get shot?

2. Can I choose the job of my choice or does the gov place me in a job based on my skills?

3. How can I get there? Can anyone move there or do you have to be accepted by Castro?

4. Can I get busted by the U$ for going there?

Thanks for answering my questions everyone. You probably know more about Cuba than I do.

[RedStarOverChina]

Well, i guess as long as u dont give public speeches condemning Castro personnally, I think u'll be fine. So next time u are in Cuba, if people ask u to give an imperialist speech or to overthrow the government just for the fun of it, say no. I think u can discuss them privately without having anyone turning u in.

U should have the freedom of career, cause i know that many Cuban's "people's teachers" quit their jobs to make more money in the tourist industry. Many became tour guide or even bartenders.

the latter two i donno. I dont live in the states and dont know their policies towards Cuba.

[Abstrakt]

The U$ Government would probably call you a terrorist...Then move you a couple miles down to Guantanamo(sp) Bay.

[RedStarOverChina]

The U$ Government would probably call you a terrorist...Then move you a couple miles down to Guantanamo(sp) Bay.

Then he can live in Cuba! :lol: Even the food and shelter are free! Isnt that someting!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I'm assuming that you are serious about this, and are fluent en español.

"1. What freedoms do I have in Cuba? Can I say Castro sucks and not get shot?" If you think Castro "sucks", why do you want to move to Cuba?

"3. How can I get there? Can anyone move there or do you have to be accepted by Castro?" Many people have already moved there, though most live "outside" of society so to speak - they have "settled" there with a large sum of money which enables them to live without working or "participting" in society, and they are not citizens. Non-citizens CANNOT purchase a house in Cuba, though you can rent from a Cuban. You are free to travel there and stay, but if you're interested in becoming a part of society - that is actually participating, you have a few options: 1. travel to Cuba and inquire about living there at a Gov Off, if they ask you to leave and then return, inquire if you can wait in the Dominican Republic, or other latin american country for their response 2. Write to or inquire in person about living in Cuba at their consulate offices, there is one in Washington, DC and I believe in New York as well (Cuba does not have FULL diplomatic relations with the US, but does have these offices).
3. Write to or travel to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City or Canada and inquire about living there.

4. Can I get busted by the U$ for going there?
No one has EVER in the history of the embargo been prosecuted for travel to Cuba, through the threat certainly exsists. If you travel through a 2nd country (try to stay away from Canada and Mexico, as recent reports suggest US agents are awaiting American citizens to return from the Island) such as the Dominican Republic, you should be fine. When you enter Cuba, they will stamp a piece of paper and slip it into your passport, so that when you leave the island you can disgard the paper, and no one in the US is any the wiser.

Some links that may be of interest:

Info on Cuba and travelling there:
http://www.cubasolidarity.com/

Democracy: Cuban Style:
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/v37/v37_4kw.htm

Information on Cuba from Foreigners who live there:
http://www.escapeartist.com/cuba/cuba.htm

[Tupac-Amaru]

Are you seriously thinking of going to live in Cuba? That's kool and all, but let me warn you that a lot of the stuff you take for granted in the US you won't find in Cuba; no MacDs, no KFCs, no Dr. Pepper; the food it pretty simple...
You'll probably find it hard to buy good house-hold appliances (no IKEA); you'll probably get a 30 year old Soviet refrigarator and if you want a table you'll have to get a hand-made one from a local, state carpenter.
Oh, and you wont get cheap fuel for your car!!!

But anyway, suit yourself, i wish you the best in your new life in Cuba ;)

[bunk]

What a disaster, what would we all do without Mcdonalds, but it doesn't matte rbecause it's cool to live in Cuba.

[comrade_mufasa]

If you like old cars from the 50s then Cuba is your haven. I would love to go to Cuba and just put every one of those old coupes through my car shop :D Can you imagin a country where every car is droped, fished, shaved, and choped
http://www.caller2.com/specials/lowriders/photos/p-miguel.jpg

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Why cant we all just return to a keynesian welfare state...

Sigh...lol.

Oh and yeah, you can't speak against your gov't in Cuba. Sucks big time...lol. Oh yeah, and no internet access. So you can't come here and post anymore.

But have fun.

[RedLenin]

I never said I was going to Cuba, I was just thinking about it. I probably won't now knowing that I can't speak out against the gov. Castro sucks big time, but I would rather live there than the US during a draft. But the internet thing.... that sucks above all. I guess I'm not moving to Cuba anytime soon but I might visit one day. Hopefully Castro will die and the the people of Cuba can organize a democratic society. Thanks for the help you guys. :)

[RagsToRevolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:52 PM
I never said I was going to Cuba, I was just thinking about it. I probably won't now knowing that I can't speak out against the gov.
Yes, you can speak out against the government. You cannot slander the government. It all depends on how you carry yourself. If you come in and start saying we should have an American democracy, expect to be convicted. If you come in, talking about social democratic reform, you will be fine.


Castro sucks big time,

Elaborate. Note that Ernesto Guevara and Fidel Castro have very similar political views, and Che openly supported the Castro regime which has only grown more moderate. Thus, to go against Castro's political beliefs would be going against many of Che's political beliefs.


but I would rather live there than the US during a draft.

In Cuba, the citizenry is trained to defend themselves and is expected to fight if invaded. But you won't be shipped off to a war you don't believe in, no.


But the internet thing.... that sucks above all.

That is a big lie. If Cuba did not have internet, why do they have their own internet domain [.cu].


I guess I'm not moving to Cuba anytime soon but I might visit one day.

More power to you. I want to work abroad, participating with the Canadian New Democrat party, the Venezualan Bolivarian revolution, and working to create class consciousness in America. I will probally retire in Cuba.


Hopefully Castro will die and the the people of Cuba can organize a democratic society.

www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html

Please, prove to me, why is Cuba not a worker's democracy?


Thanks for the help you guys. :)

Your welcome.

[RedStarOverChina]

I want to work abroad, participating with the Canadian New Democrat party

yeah... i somewhat support the NDP as well... At least they PRETEND to be the workers' party. Nowadays even that is hard to have.

[RagsToRevolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 04:29 AM

I want to work abroad, participating with the Canadian New Democrat party

yeah... i somewhat support the NDP as well... At least they PRETEND to be the workers' party. Nowadays even that is hard to have.
You must understand. I want to work for social democracy, because I believe that socialism, right now anyway, cannot exist. I believe that through a social democracy the spreading of class consciousness will be more "easier," or at least a much easier transition to socialism. I believe the New Democrats are the best example of Social Democrats.

[Zeruzo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 08:24 PM
I'm thinking of living in Cuba before the draft comes back but there are a few things I would like to know.

1. What freedoms do I have in Cuba? Can I say Castro sucks and not get shot?

2. Can I choose the job of my choice or does the gov place me in a job based on my skills?

3. How can I get there? Can anyone move there or do you have to be accepted by Castro?

4. Can I get busted by the U$ for going there?

Thanks for answering my questions everyone. You probably know more about Cuba than I do.
1. What freedoms do I have in Cuba? Can I say Castro sucks and not get shot?

yes, you can say that without being shot you wont even be shot when you want to overthrow the government violently, but you would probably end up in jail for the last one. (i can give loads of examples of free speech on Cuba)

2. Can I choose the job of my choice or does the gov place me in a job based on my skills?

yes, you have the choice


3. How can I get there? Can anyone move there or do you have to be accepted by Castro?

you have to speak spanish and you have to be 1 year in the cuban military before you will be accepted as a cuban citizen


4. Can I get busted by the U$ for going there?

no, but you can only go there once every 4 years

(i answered this again since i've seen lots of wrong answers)

[Zeruzo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:52 PM
I never said I was going to Cuba, I was just thinking about it. I probably won't now knowing that I can't speak out against the gov. Castro sucks big time, but I would rather live there than the US during a draft. But the internet thing.... that sucks above all. I guess I'm not moving to Cuba anytime soon but I might visit one day. Hopefully Castro will die and the the people of Cuba can organize a democratic society. Thanks for the help you guys. :)
Cuba is the most democratic nation in the world...
I dont see why you want to change that, do you want to change it into U.S. style 'democracy'?

[RedLenin]

The reason I oppose Castro is because he is a dictator. He has ultimate power over the Cuban People. No state, no matter how democratic, will ever get my full support. I admit that Cuba propably is one of the most democratic states, but it is still a state. A dictatorship cannot be a workers democracy. A state by definition, is an elite group of people that govern over the population. In other words, a new ruling class. Therefor, for it to be a "workers democracy" there can be no state. Also, I do respect Castro. He was a revolutionary and he acts for the betterement of his people. I simply dislike him because of his position of power. Next, I greatly admire Che. I feel he was a great revolutionary and truly fought for his people. However, he had a differernt ideology than I do and thats why he supported Castro and I did not. And no, I do not wish Cuba to have a US democracy, I only wish for the people of Cuba to have more freedoms than they do now. I want the Cuban people to elect their leaders, while keeping with a socialist economy. Overall, I just want the Cuban people to live their lives the way they want to and do what they think is best for Cuba.

[Ell Carino]

Isn't Cuba happy under Castro? I can't see why they'd want anyone else, he is a huge success to the nation. I would love to go to Cuba one day, its a beautiful country.

[Zeruzo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 02:14 PM
The reason I oppose Castro is because he is a dictator. He has ultimate power over the Cuban People. No state, no matter how democratic, will ever get my full support. I admit that Cuba propably is one of the most democratic states, but it is still a state. A dictatorship cannot be a workers democracy. A state by definition, is an elite group of people that govern over the population. In other words, a new ruling class. Therefor, for it to be a "workers democracy" there can be no state. Also, I do respect Castro. He was a revolutionary and he acts for the betterement of his people. I simply dislike him because of his position of power. Next, I greatly admire Che. I feel he was a great revolutionary and truly fought for his people. However, he had a differernt ideology than I do and thats why he supported Castro and I did not. And no, I do not wish Cuba to have a US democracy, I only wish for the people of Cuba to have more freedoms than they do now. I want the Cuban people to elect their leaders, while keeping with a socialist economy. Overall, I just want the Cuban people to live their lives the way they want to and do what they think is best for Cuba.
are you anarchist?

or dont you understand lenin's and marx's works?

[RedLenin]

Yes I am an anarchist. Please remember that I do respect Castro, I just disagree with his ideology and his position of power. I want the Cuban People to govern themselves, but if they do like Castro fine. I believe they should run things the way they see fit.

[RagsToRevolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 02:14 PM
The reason I oppose Castro is because he is a dictator.
According to Marx (I do not have specific cited quote for you), a dictatorship is any form of government that has control over the people. Which means, every elected official is a dictator in sopme manner, because they dictate what is done in politics. Now, explain to me why Castro is an oppressive dictator in the form of Pinochet or Franco.


He has ultimate power over the Cuban People.

Source?


No state, no matter how democratic, will ever get my full support.

You have admitted to being an Anarchist, I a Spartakist, and that is where we disagree. Answer this question: How do we achieve a stateless, classless society without a socialist transition period? Realistically, that is.


I admit that Cuba propably is one of the most democratic states, but it is still a state.

That means you also admit that Castro is not a "dictator" in the oppressive sense.


A dictatorship cannot be a workers democracy.

Stop contradicting yourself. Cuba is not a "dictatorship" in the oppressive sense. Until you give me proof, your argument does not hold water.


A state by definition, is an elite group of people that govern over the population. In other words, a new ruling class.

Not necessarily. A state is simply a government. In the Spartakist model of socialist democracy, the state is run by the union of worker's councils. Not all Marxian socialism is statist authoritarian Leninism.


Therefor, for it to be a "workers democracy" there can be no state.

A worker's democracy can either be a social democracy or a Spartakist socialist state. Communism has no government, and thus, no need for democracy in the governmental sense.


Also, I do respect Castro. He was a revolutionary and he acts for the betterement of his people. I simply dislike him because of his position of power.

I am not saying I support every single thing Castro thinks. What I am saying is that we should support Cuba's struggle against the imperialist U$. That is more important. Cuba is a progressive anti-imperialist state that fights the forces of the reactionary Uncle Sam.


Next, I greatly admire Che. I feel he was a great revolutionary and truly fought for his people. However, he had a differernt ideology than I do and thats why he supported Castro and I did not.

Okay...


And no, I do not wish Cuba to have a US democracy, I only wish for the people of Cuba to have more freedoms than they do now.

What freedoms?


I want the Cuban people to elect their leaders,

They do now.


while keeping with a socialist economy.

To say that Cuba, or indeed any economy in history was socialist is naive. Socialism in its Marxian form has never existed. Cuba is a state capitalist economy with a social democratic model for government.


Overall, I just want the Cuban people to live their lives the way they want to and do what they think is best for Cuba.

They do now. Unless you have any evidence saying otherwise.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 [email protected] 10 2005, 10:43 PM
Oh and yeah, you can't speak against your gov't in Cuba. Sucks big time...lol.
You probably shouldn't speak on things you aren't sure of. Dissent is tolerated and expected in Cuba, sedition is not.


Oh yeah, and no internet access. So you can't come here and post anymore.

One of the more rediculous comments I've seen. It's funny that there's no internet access yet I talk to several Cubans daily online!



4. Can I get busted by the U$ for going there?

no, but you can only go there once every 4 years

(i answered this again since i've seen lots of wrong answers)

Where do you get your information??

"On June 30th Washington took measures which eliminated over 75% of family visits — this on the heels of the December 31st elimination of the legal avenue for 85% of all other travel. These sweeping measures include:

* limiting Cuban-Americans to family visits only every three years (no humanitarian or emergency exceptions);
* redefining "family" to include only immediate members;
* eliminating the "fully-hosted" category of legal travel entirely;
* restricting travel for education to semester-long for-credit full-time college or graduate students;
* completely barring high school students from educational travel;
* prosecuting people who do NOT spend money in Cuba (the legal basis of the travel ban) under the Trading with the Enemy Act;
* refusing to renew existing group licenses;
* barring boaters from sailing to Cuba;
* systematically searching luggage and other harassing of legal travelers;
* setting up surveillance in foreign airports to catch Americans traveling to the island via other countries;
* stepping up civil procedures (fines) against people who travel to Cuba;
* beginning holding hearings for people who refused to pay fines without a trial;
* placing enforcement of the travel ban under the aegis of the Department of Homeland Security.

[Zeruzo]

3 or 4 is not much of a difference, it just sucks big time.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

About Cubans and their access to the internet :

http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/A1234_0_3_0_M/

And don't give me some bullshit answer about how it's not a reliable source. It's the Havana journal!

Secondly, for those thinking speaking against their government in Cuba is similar to what protestors have done here in the west is ridiculous. You will never see protests and the heights as they are over here - you will never see Cubans throwing things at Fidel Castro's car as he passes by, as you would in America during Bush's first inauguration.

If you actually believe that Castro would allow you to organize and demonstrate in front of his office, scream and yell obscenities directed toward him, you have anothing thing coming. If we learned anything from the Cuba revolution, it was that free speech was not tolerated - how many Batista supporters were killed when Castro took power? Of course most of the ppl killed were murderers, those who committed rape, and other horrible crimes. But if you're a right-winger, you can't tell me you have it easy in Cuba vs. the west.

Not by a long shot.

[RagsToRevolution]

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 [email protected] 13 2005, 02:33 PM
About Cubans and their access to the internet :

http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/A1234_0_3_0_M/

And don't give me some bullshit answer about how it's not a reliable source. It's the Havana journal!



The Havana Journal isn't a reliable source. It takes it's news from http://www.cubanet.org/cubanews.html, and the article that you got there is from cubanet.org, which isn't even based in CUBA, which is US funded and run by the Cuban immigrants in Miami. Take one glance at the home page. Then you will understand their intent.


Secondly, for those thinking speaking against their government in Cuba is similar to what protestors have done here in the west is ridiculous. You will never see protests and the heights as they are over here - you will never see Cubans throwing things at Fidel Castro's car as he passes by, as you would in America during Bush's first inauguration.

I never said that. I said you could speak out against the government. I don't think vandalism is allowed though, but neither is it in America. Note those people throwing things are usually taken by the police, and large scale protests put down in America.


If you actually believe that Castro would allow you to organize and demonstrate in front of his office, scream and yell obscenities directed toward him, you have anothing thing coming.

That's just being angry. Why not organize voting? If you don't like the candidates and want another slate, just get enough people to turn in empty ballots. You have to get over 50% in Cuba to win, if I remember correctly. They could protest outside Castro's office, but they would not be able to shout obscenities at him. That is uneeded anyway.


If we learned anything from the Cuba revolution, it was that free speech was not tolerated - how many Batista supporters were killed when Castro took power? Of course most of the ppl killed were murderers, those who committed rape, and other horrible crimes.

Look at my signature. A good quote found there.

The point is, this is a revolution. The point of a revolution is to suppress the former oppressor. And that is what we did. If we do not suppress them, the revolution will fail.


But if you're a right-winger, you can't tell me you have it easy in Cuba vs. the west.

Not by a long shot.

It's not easy being a communist in America. It's called political peer pressure. Nothing more.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

And don't give me some bullshit answer about how it's not a reliable source. It's the Havana journal!

You must be joking! The Miami Mafia owns and operates cubanet.org as was previously mentioned - the "news" came directly from there.

If I speak to SEVERAL people in Cuba on a daily basis via Messanger, what is going on? Am I imagining it??


Secondly, for those thinking speaking against their government in Cuba is similar to what protestors have done here in the west is ridiculous. You will never see protests and the heights as they are over here - you will never see Cubans throwing things at Fidel Castro's car as he passes by, as you would in America during Bush's first inauguration.

Protests never NEED to get to those heights, because REAL democracy is alive and well in Cuba. I won't even point out the obvious in comparing Fidel to Bush.


If you actually believe that Castro would allow you to organize and demonstrate in front of his office, scream and yell obscenities directed toward him, you have anothing thing coming. If we learned anything from the Cuba revolution, it was that free speech was not tolerated

If we "learned anything" from Class Struggle it's that we must suppress the former rulling class for the revolution to be successful. If you'd ever visited Cuba and "learned anything", you'd know that not only is free speech tolerated, it's alive and well! You will find MANY people voicing their concerns and critizicisms - and you will also find that the state ACTUALLY RESPONDS!


how many Batista supporters were killed when Castro took power? Of course most of the ppl killed were murderers, those who committed rape, and other horrible crimes.

You answered yourself there. They were punished by the people for crimes committed.


But if you're a right-winger, you can't tell me you have it easy in Cuba vs. the west.

If you are a right winger, I don't WANT you to have it easy - neither do the people of Cuba!

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Without the right, the left wouldnt exist.

You can hate them as much as you'd like...but fact is, they'll always exist. Despite anti-fascist tendencies, Neo-Nazism still exists. Sucks for you eh?


Protests never NEED to get to those heights, because REAL democracy is alive and well in Cuba. I won't even point out the obvious in comparing Fidel to Bush.


HA! Real democracy exists in Cuba?

Do you even know what democracy is? It's not some dude in an office calling shots. Something these dictators don't seem to understand is that after a while, people get sick of your occupation in office. Castro's been in office since the 50s. The only loyalists he has are those who are fanatics of him. The 'well...he fought along Che.' or, 'He went against American imperialism.' Both of which are true...but so what? There's more dimensions to a revolution than friends and going against an evil empire.

Oh wait...I guess you are a Castro loyalist. Don't be too disappointed if the Cuban people actually have a say in their own government. I mean...wouldnt that be true democracy as you said?

[Intifada]

HA! Real democracy exists in Cuba?


I do not doubt for one second that Cuban democracy is flawed in certain areas, this is true of most democracies, but Cubans have been adapting and improving the system. To be frank, they are not doing a bad job.

It took the US almost a hundred years after the Declaration of Independence and Constitutional Convention to allow Black men to vote, and well over a hundred years before women of any colour were given the same right.

Democratisation does take time.

Either way, the Cuban political system is quite democratic already.

Here (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html) is a terrific article about the electorial system which exists in Cuba at the moment.


Castro's been in office since the 50s. The only loyalists he has are those who are fanatics of him. The 'well...he fought along Che.' or, 'He went against American imperialism.' Both of which are true...but so what?

GALLUP POLL: Cubans support the Revolution (http://www.marxmail.org/facts/cuba_gallup.htm)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's very ironic that you're name is Knowledge, yet you speak on subjects you have such little knowledge of.



"Do you even know what democracy is?"

Do you? Multi-Party elections do not make up democracy. If only the rich are able to run for office, that is not democracy.



"It's not some dude in an office calling shots."

You def. need to do some reading. Fidel is hardly "some dude in an office calling shots."


I once again assert that democracy is alive and well in Cuba -- see sources:

Democracy, Cuban Style
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/v37/v37_4kw.htm

Revolutionary Democracy in Cuba
http://pnews.org/art/demcuba.shtml

Why Is Cuba A One Party State?
http://cubasolidarity.com/aboutcuba/faqs.htm#party

Cuba - A Modern Worker's State
http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0512-danchr.asp


"they will always exsist"

You have no faith that a proletarian revolution can succeed. The obvious question of course would be then, why are you here?


"Sucks for you eh?"

Actually, it "sucks for everyone."

By the way, I couldn't help but notice how quickly you gave up your false statements on internet access after your only source were exposed as biased.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No reply?

[In Search of True Thinkers]

[QUOTE]No reply?

You should not gloat, just be satisfied in that there is one more bettered educated person in Cuba's democracy. (Actually 2-me included!)