Criminals

[enigma2517]

I read this (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/07320F64-7D10-4C4C-970B-13D5B2ED6C21.htm) article today.

Are some criminals simply "evil"?

If so, how many criminals does this account for.

Lastly, how do it relate to crime in a communist society? Oh, and will criminal forensic science still exist? I think it will and should, this is what deters most criminals, not the fact that there are cops patrolling the street. We can all see just how effective they can be at stopping crime...not very. A person checks over his shoulder, no police around, and its go time. Now of course, there will be at least a few millitia men on call so that they can respond to situations like this. Am I getting it "right" or am I missing something?

[October Revolution]

I wouldn't say that people are naturally evil it has more to do with social conditioning the way you are raised and the values you are taught as a child. If a person becomes a criminal it's usually up to their upbringing not the desire to rob someones bellongings then smash the persons face in.
Everyone has a right to rehabilitation and most people should come out of it perfectly on the side of the law, eventhough if a person cannot be rehabilitated it doesn't necessarily mean they are evil just a product of bad social conditioning.

In a communist "soceity" their would still be forensic policing criminals have to be punished and this is one of the most effective ways of doing this. A socialist soceity would probaly have a rather large effective police force atleast to aid the population in the way of absolute communism, once this is acheived not as much so but in any soceity a force is required to keep people in line, to stop unnecessary murders and what not.

[enigma2517]

Boo!

Question isn't who will keep the people in line, its who will keep the cops in line? Check out Zimbardo's prison experiment from the 60's. People who are put into positions of power will almost alway succumb to abusing it. Its not the nature of humans that causes this, but the nature of power.

[DaCuBaN]

To be honest, considering communism denotes a lack of government, I see it highly unlikely there would be an organised police force, nor a forensics division therein. If anything, maybe someone would be able to dust for fingerprints, should a thief go on the rampage - but I doubt most of our property-protection schemes currently in existence would survive.

Communism can only come into existence one the elements to it's detriment have been removed - it's somewhat of a catch-22: As people procreate, and their creation is more than the sum of their parts, it is always uncertain who will come from it.

We'll just have to be very careful to instill ideals of honesty and fraternity - and hopefully, we won't have any criminals to worry about. It's about hoping for the oppertunity to have a better world - it's not a solution to all the world's ills, in my humble opinion.

[Xvall]

Naturally evil? Outrageous. I'm a communist, and as far as I am conscerned, divine forces like good and evil do not exist. I've heard of some people possibly having psychological problems that make them more agressive,(Double Y Chromosomes, and other such things.) but the notion that a person is born 'sinful' is rediculous. I think that a significant factor in crime is society; I also feel that some 'crimes', like drug use, aren't 'crimes' at all.

[October Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 07:47 PM
To be honest, considering communism denotes a lack of government, I see it highly unlikely there would be an organised police force, nor a forensics division therein. If anything, maybe someone would be able to dust for fingerprints, should a thief go on the rampage - but I doubt most of our property-protection schemes currently in existence would survive.


Well in a communist soceity criminality should be less than in a capitalist soceity because it would benefit noone to steal from other people or the state.
If there were to be a police force then it wouldn't be as ridgid as in western countries now but there would have to be some kind of system in place maybe a minimalist one to keep any prospective criminals in line. Eventhough in a communist enviroment there would be less stupid laws that prohibit people from doing reasonable things such as drug use and there would also be a distinct lack of business related laws considering there would be none. So really unless it hindered the state in some major way it would be much harder to get arrested albeit things such as murder and rape would have to be illegalised.

Totally agree with you Drake Dracoli what kind of tests did these "scientists" do because they can't have involved many scientific processes, it seems like it's based on a assumption to me.

[enigma2517]

Yeah I agree...especially the use of the term "evil" makes it sound totally silly. However, its definetely arguable that not all criminals are just products of their environment. Not only that, but communism can't create a perfect environment anyway. Socioeconomic problems will be highly deminished/eliminated but people are still going to have personal emotional reasons for committing crimes (crimes of passion).

Also, it can be argued that many social disorders are caused by medical/biological reasons. Chemical imbalances in the brain, stuff like that can lead to schitzsophrenia (spelling?) and a warped perception of reality.

That taken into account however, I bet that communism will provide more humane treatment to these people. Mental wards will stop being so prison like and society on a whole will more interested in actually helping these people (quite possible with drugs) as opposed to being concerned with simply locking them away and keeping them distanced from the rest of society.

[DaCuBaN]

Well in a communist soceity criminality should be less than in a capitalist soceity because it would benefit noone to steal from other people or the state.
If there were to be a police force then it wouldn't be as ridgid as in western countries now but there would have to be some kind of system in place maybe a minimalist one to keep any prospective criminals in line. Eventhough in a communist enviroment there would be less stupid laws that prohibit people from doing reasonable things such as drug use and there would also be a distinct lack of business related laws considering there would be none. So really unless it hindered the state in some major way it would be much harder to get arrested albeit things such as murder and rape would have to be illegalised.

That sounds more like the description of a liberal socialist society, not a communist one.

Communism is the ideology no state, no religion, and lots of hard work for the benefit of yourself and all around you. One day, I hope to see and be a part of it - although I'm not holding my breath. However, by it's very nature I'm certain it excludes the idea of an organised police force.

"Law" would only be enforced in as such as you would be heavily criticised (or dependant on how "harsh" you want to be, killed) by your comrades for acting to the detriment of society.

[October Revolution]

Yeh ok i got that wrong but i didn't exactly mean a communist sate in my first post more a socialist one. Eventhough in a communist enviroment criminals would have to get more than just a tellling off or people would just abuse the ideology for their own purposes, law would have to be inplace just maybe not as we experience it now. Maybe something such as the people deciding what to do between themselves with no orginased faction involved something like that but there would have to be laws.

[enigma2517]

I wouldn't quite call them laws, but rather, codes of conduct. The basic premise of anarchism/communism is that you have the freedom to do whatever you want, as long as you are not somehow impeding on another person's freedom to do whatever they want. Thus, a general set of guidelines would be present in each community (open to interpretation of course) that outline what and what is not a breach of another person's freedom. Its just that there would be no legal code or static written version of these guidelines. When a person commits an assumed violation, he would be brought into "court" (not the kind we have now, just a general gathering place of sorts), and the question of whether or not that individual committed a wrongdoing would be deliberated. No standing statutes or anything like that, just an individual case to case decision. Therefore, I think its wrong to call them "laws", but the concept would remain relatively the same.

[WritingToHaveNoFace]

Hi, this is my first post :)


I see it highly unlikely there would be an organised police force

Communism, as I understand it conceptually, is not devoid of organized power.

Understanding groups like the Black Panthers or the Zapatistas indicates possible examples of communal policing. Huey Newton's panthers had a disciplinary system including a single jail cell for drunkards etc. Prisoners were required to read and study, and were released in a short period of time. This may not seem all that bad, but the possibility for abuse is evident in the overt use of power.