Moussaoui - Judge Keeps Guilty Plea

[j]

The judge in the Moussaoui case has accepted his guilty plea. Anyone know anything about this guy? What are your opinions of him?

j

[DieMoussaoui]

Moussaoui clearly is the filth of the earth. They should reinstate public executions just for this guy. Everytime he opens his mouth, Islamic mumbo jumbo pours forth about destroying the infidels blah blah blah. He has demonstrated a hatred of humanity on the level of Pol Pot and Hitler (if just not as capable) and thus should be treated as such.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Islamic mumbo jumbo huh? Sounds like you're not real tolerant towards "those kinds of people" if you know what I mean.

As for the topic, I think the guy is clearly not in a stable mental state. Perhaps he's Al Qaeda, I don't really care. He didn't actually do anything except be a weirdo, but it seems clear he was up to something.

I'm not a big fan of criminal "justice" in America, but if he was the 20th hijacker I think it's not unreasonable to want him punished in some way.

--- G. Raven

[canikickit]

Well said, Dhul Fiqar.

[DieMoussaoui]

You're right, I am not tolerant of those kinds of people. Where "those kinds of people" are people that:

1. Try to institute theocracy
2. Strap bombs to their backs and kill innocent people, in the name of religion
3. Fly planes into civilian targets
4. Explicitly target civilians in their disputes with governments (something that even Israel doesn't do)
5. Put women into a state of subjugation

Whether that constitutes "Islamic" or not is a matter of labelistic trivialities. Frankly, I dislike all forms of religion.

(Edited by DieMoussaoui at 11:03 pm on July 27, 2002)

[Xvall]

You're right, I am not tolerant of those kinds of people.

So you're another Anti-Islamic bastard? I guarentee you that of all the 'religions' that have killed people, Islam has done the least.

1. Try to institute theocracy

What do you think the United States is? "In God We Trust." You type of people seem to complain when 'god' is removed from your plegde, and yet you spout endless trails of nonsense labelling anyone that practices their worship in a diffirent way as a 'theocrat'.

2. Strap bombs to their backs and kill innocent people, in the name of religion

The United States and Israel have outgrwn this. Instead of killing themselves with bombs, they use artillery shells to bombard villages and towns.

3. Fly planes into civilian targets

You don't do that. Instead, you decide to drop bombs from the planes. There is really no diffirence, and either way you put it, you're killing innocents by firing ballistic missiles. I find that funny. You find the terrorists cowardly, while you hurl projectiles from miles away.

4. Explicitly target civilians in their disputes with governments (something that even Israel doesn't do)

Ya, just letting you know. I have a problem with fundamentalists too. I am in no way supporting these people, but right now I am under the assumption that you are talking about moslems, and not just Islamic fundamentalists. By the way, the U.S has killed some civilians that they think 'got in the way'. But not in as much of a massive number as countries like Iraq have.

5. Put women into a state of subjugation

I hate those people too. But many women in America still play the 'mother' role in society, and many are looked down upon when they try to gain certain jobs. The U.S military still prohibits women from going to war, (In actual battles), or joining certain 'elite' fighting forces such as the Rangers or Navy Seals.

Whether that constitutes "Islamic" or not is a matter of labelistic trivialities. Frankly, I dislike all forms of religion.

Me too. Once again. You'll probably notice I'm more nicer at this point than before, because until recently, I thought you just wanted to kill all Moslems. You don't, right? By the way. Are you a Right-Winger, or a Left-Winger?

By the way. I'm pretty sure that Moussaoui isn't the average terrorist who actually thinks that jews are evil; blah, blah blah. He seems bentally unstable to me. My dad works with people with mental illnesses, and believes he is mentally unstable as well.

[DieMoussaoui]

Drake Dracoli:

Please refrain from responding posts with counter accusations that make inaccurate assumptions about one's opinions, as well as inaccurate assumptions about one's nationality.

The other problem with your counterpoints is that they simply ignore scale. A national motto endorsing religion, while theocratic in nature, fails to even compare that with the level that religion is intertwined with middle eastern governments. That shows no respect for scale. It is like saying that the United States is just as bad as Nazi Germany during the holocaust because anti-Semitism occured in both places.

And for the record, the definition of theocracy is when religion is tied into government. This does not apply to people privately pracitising their religion.

I also have zero concern for things that happened more than 100 years ago. Any crime (like the crusades) that has happened back then is meaningless to me because it doesn't affect We The Living.

As for whether I am a right winger or a left winger, I am neither. I fail to grasp the purpose of you asking me this question.

And for the record, I do not think that Moussaoui is insane. This man seriously thinks of himself as a martyr. Martyrs throughout history have acted just as nutty as Moussaoui. The only difference is that Moussaoui's views are not as popular (for good reason) and his lack of grasp of the English language makes him look less intelligent than he is.

[Vladimir]

You must really hate Moussaoui to have that name, why though, cause the woman on the news channel told you so?

[DieMoussaoui]

No I hate him because of his actions and the values he lives by (theocracy & fundamentalism, lack of respect for innocents, and so on).

Only a fool would hate someone because of some bimbo anchorwoman. And only a fool would passingly assume that people that they never meant would fall into that category.

And also for the record, I hate television.

[Xvall]

I apologized at the end of the thread, if you didn't pay attention. For the last time, I don't support them. I DO think that those countries are just as bad as America in one way or another. I'm also curious. Indeed, Moussaoui is a Nut. But why do you specificly hate him? Why isn't your name "Die Osoma" or "Die John Walker"?

(I hade the Telescreen too. Big Brother keeps telling me things.)

[Dhul Fiqar]

Why is that his name? Because he's a sock-puppet of some pissed of cappie, created specifically for this here thread.

Anyone else notice he has four posts, all of them confined to this exact thread? I doubt it's a coincidence.

--- G. Raven

[DieMoussaoui]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:50 am on July 28, 2002
But why do you specificly hate him? Why isn't your name "Die Osoma" or "Die John Walker"?

I do hate those other people, along with many more. Moussaoui was just on my mind when registering.

[Angie]

Hate is such a strong word... :biggrin: I say we ban him to the SvC forum, just for the sake of silencing a bigot.

[Dhul Fiqar]

I second that one Angie.

I say we give him a some kind of compulsory sissy avatar too... and that might actually be a good idea for all the cappies! Think of the fun we'd have submitting new ones in the Commie Club!? ;)

--- G. Raven

[DieMoussaoui]

Quote: from Angie on 2:40 pm on July 28, 2002
Hate is such a strong word... :biggrin: I say we ban him to the SvC forum, just for the sake of silencing a bigot.


Am I bigoted because I hate the slaughter of innocents and fundamentalism? I have made clear my views; Drake has acknowledge them. I suggest you do the same.

As for the need to hate, I will quote Che Guevara:

"Hate as a factor in the struggle, intransigent hatred for the enemy that takes one beyond the natural limitations of a human being and converts one into an effective, violent, selective, cold, killing machine. Our soldiers must be like that; a people without hate cannot triumph over a brutal enemy. "

And as for being a "cappie", I have not made a single mention of capitalism one way or another.

Is censorship one of your values? Is misinformation? What are you trying to do? Recreate North Korea?

[j]

Well, as for "martyr" you need to die for your cause. Moussaoui does not want to die....he's trying to avoid the death penalty.

DieMoussaoui, if you didn't want to start shit here you wouldn't have used the name you chose. If you claim to be other than one of those propaganda filled shitheads, prove it!!!

What is your philosophy on politics? Are you a socialist? a cappie? a commie? a facist?

j

[DieMoussaoui]

Quote: from j on 3:51 am on July 30, 2002
What is your philosophy on politics? Are you a socialist? a cappie? a commie? a facist?
j

No, no, no, and most certainly no.

I am a anti-religious libertarian. I distrust all forms of fundamentalist religion, and I distrust government.

I challenge you to look beyond labels. I challenge you to look beyond infantile ways of categorizing people. Would you guys have gotten just as mad if I named myself "DieFredPhelps" (the guy that runs www.godhatesfags.com?), put the word fundamentalism in my first message, but kept every other word in all of my posts exactly the same?

If not, then it would seem that you are not reacting to the content of my posts, but rather innuendo and superficialities. That is a sign of simplistic thinking, knee jerk factionalism and other foolery. Useful Idiot.

[j]

Again, I ask you, what is your political philosophy?

I want to know where you stand and why you stand there.

You are in a forum for admirers of Che Guevara who was a communist. I guess we all question those who are not communists or socialists and come here. Are you an admirer of Che? Are you here for debate?

Believe me, I only debate based on what you post, no assumptions here...

j

[DieMoussaoui]

I believe that I have explained my political persuasion. Reread the previous post; specifically the second line. But even that is only a vague term I use when I am forced to.

I have came here for debate. And so far, I have seen none. All I have seen are people more interested in slamming discourse rather than arguing points. It is also puzzling why people seem to ask my political persuasion; very few people out there have political philosophies that can be summed up so simplistically. That is why I avoid such terms.

[j]

The very name you choose is provocative.

I simply would like to know who I am debating with.

So, you are an anti-religious libertarian? Anti-religious for everyone or just for yourself?

I feel the libertarians will increase the class struggle. While I agree with many of the foreign policies of the libertarians, I disagree with the party as a whole. For example, ending social programs will plunge hundreds of thousands of the poor into worsening conditions. Increasing the oppression of the poor and working class by the ruling class.

Whose rights do you fight for? Everyone's individual rights or just those of Americans. A free and open market lets other countries be used for sweatshops and the like. What about the rights of those people?

We will not be able to exist under libertarian policy. Or the Have's will exist and Have-Not's will hopelessly be left by the way-side.

j

[DieMoussaoui]

Ah some debate!

My choice of a name was very deliberate. If people thought things through, "DieMoussaoui" would not be any more provocative than "DieHitler", "DiePolPot", "DieFredPhelps", "DieOsama", "DieMugabe" or "DieMcVeigh".

With regard to religion - I believe that society would be better off if we abandoned all of our religions in the same way Roman statist dogma (like the emporer is divine) was abandoned in antiquity. I do not advocate violent retribution against religion, as Hitler, Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot have done advocated. Those means require a coercive state to accomplish that.

As for free and open trade resulting in class warfare, the real problem does not lie with free and open trade. The real problem is with the corrupt governments in the third world (and the first world for that matter). Libertarianism cannot thrive while a government official in Venezuela prositute themselves off to foreigners in buisness suits. Libertarianism cannot thrive while police in the Phillipines get bought out by factory owners and other statist corruption. Libertarianism cannot thrive when workers in the first world have to compete with workers in countries for whom their government works against them to a much stronger degree.

The reason that I am not a Communist is because I distrust the people that lead the revolutions just as much as I distrust the people they revolt against. For some reason, in practice, "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" always results in "Dictatorship of some new statist thug". Regardless of how corrupt Batista was in Cuba, Castro is just as bad. Cubans are more equal now and the scourge of religion now plays less of a role in their society, but they have traded away freedom of movement and freedom of thought. Cuba is now one of the most statist countries in the Western Hemisphere. Ditto for the old Soviet Union, North Korea, and Cambodia. A workers paradise where people are executed for "counter-revolutionary thoughts" is not a workers paradise, or anyone's paradise for that matter (except the thug in charge).

[j]

DM, I think your idea that the problem is third world governments "prostituting" themselves to businessmen is somehow the fault of the third world is false. It is, in a sense, blaming the victim. This is not meant to escape the personal responisibility that third world governments officials have. However, the idea of societal responsibility must also come into play. It is unjust and irresponsible of society to ask any country to "prostitute" themselves. Who is more at fault, the prostitute or the pimp? While both are part of the problem, it is the pimp who is in power. Thus, the US establishing free trade with the world provides a safe haven for these pimps to institute their prostitution rings, i.e. sweatshops and slave labor.

BTW, this is actually belongs in the Socioliasm V. Capitalism forum. I'm going to post this same post over there under the the thread "To continue the debate."

j