Palestine and Israel

[eQuaLiTy]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1170289,00.html

Drop your thoughts.

[Intifada]

Unless the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories end, there will be no chance for a peaceful settlement.

Until there is justice for Palestine, there will be no peace.

True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice.
-- Dr. Martin Luther King.

[bunk]

Well Hamas and Islamic jihad are not accepting the truce.

[Phalanx]

The evacuation of the territories will be under way this summer. If Hamas and Jihad do not accept the truce, they will prove to the world they only want war.

[Intifada]

The evacuation of the territories will be under way this summer.

Really?

Can you give me a link to where you got this news from?


If Hamas and Jihad do not accept the truce, they will prove to the world they only want war.

Maybe so.

Zahhar: We declared self-proclaimed truce to probe Zionist intention (http://hamasonline.com/index.php?itemid=1491)

The fact remains, however, that Israel must pull out completely from the OPTs, and give Palestinian refugees their inalienable right of return. Illegal settlements must also be slowly dismantled, while the creation of the Apartheid Wall must cease.

[bunk]

And the destruction of the wall start!

[bolshevik butcher]

maybe this is a start, but until there is an independant palistinean state, comrising of the gaza strip, the west bank, and east jerusalem, i can't see violence ending/

[Phalanx]

Haaretz (http://http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=Disengagement+plan&itemNo=536837)

Here's one about the disengagement plan. It's an Israeli paper, but it is a left-leaning newssource, and it's not biased to any one side.

[Abstrakt]

...I support the rebels in Palestine. Isreal needs to get the hell out of there. A truce should be 50/50. Is it that hard to leave someone else's lands?

[Phalanx]

They've rooted themselves in the Gaza strip and Judea and Samarra with settlers. But most of the Israeli population wants them out.

[FeArANDLoAtHiNg]

I am pleased with Israel's recent efforts, although it may not be enough, and who the hell knows if they'll follow through. The Palestinians probably don't trust what the Isreali government is saying at the moment, and I for one don't blame them in the least. And can peace anywhere in the Middle East really be achieved when the U.S. military is occupying Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Afghanistan?

[bunk]

A palestinian man was shot dead yesterday, so much for the truce.

Palestinian militants have fired mortars at Israeli settlements in Gaza, two days after Israeli and Palestinian leaders agreed a ceasefire.
The Israeli army said up to 25 mortar shells and rockets were fired at the Gush Katif settlement, damaging a house but causing no injuries.

Hamas said it was avenging the death of a Palestinian man who came under fire from a settlement in Gaza on Wednesday.

The militant group had earlier said it was not bound by the agreed ceasefire.

BBC

[seraphim]

At least let there be some hope Israel may not pull out the millitants may not stick to the cease fire but we have to hope I'm sure there are enough decent human beings on both sides of the devide just like any of us who want only an end to the violence for them we have to hope. Without hope there's nothing.

[Intifada]

Here's one about the disengagement plan. It's an Israeli paper, but it is a left-leaning newssource, and it's not biased to any one side.

The source you provided does not seem to work.

I believe that the disengagement plan you are referring to, anyway, does not include the full 22% of territories illegally occupied by Israel.

It is a start, but until all occupation ends, peace will never come into being.

[Phalanx]

True, but the Israelis can only go one step at a time. These are babysteps towards peace.

[seraphim]

Babysteps that should be incouraged

[dso79]

Don’t be fooled by the disengagement plan, it’s not a peace plan. In fact, it was designed to freeze the peace process and to strengthen Israel's grip on the West Bank. Uri Avnery, from the Israeli peace group Gush Shalom (http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.html) has written some great articles about it, for example this one (http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/article325.html).

[Intifada]

The disengagement plan is a fraud.

Sharon's Last Ruse (http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/683/op111.htm)

Two Palestinians, meanwhile, have been murdered by Israel since the "truce" was declared by both Sharon and Abbas.

[che-Rabbi]

I'd like it if the Israeli government would just move all the jews out but its not realistic. Any jew knows that his parents, when they were young, would walk around town with little collection box's, gathering money to help make the dream of Israel a reality, and any jew knows that if his you asked the wrong person to donate to the holy land, you'd get your ass kicked! So its not surprising that Zionism has been revitalised and jew don't want to just give it up. And plus the palestinians would just turn on the jews in Israel so we're would all the jews go? Pakistan!? Its a lose lose situation, I say the palestinians should accept any offerings coming from Sharon ( by the way no jew in his right mind likes Sharon so don't worry) , and take it from there.

[Phalanx]

Yes, i totally agree. There are horrible people on both sides, but it is simply unrealistic for Palestinians to demand that all Jews leave Israel, or for the Israelis to say for all Palestinians should leave the West Bank. But I do believe that the Disengagment plan can work towards peace.

[novemba]

There has to be an alterior motive here somewhere.....Zionist Bush and his cabinet backing a Palestinian state.........interesting, i really do hope there's peace though, it's a stupid conflict which has hurt me and my family directly, but history has to take its course

[LSD]

here has to be an alterior motive here somewhere.....Zionist Bush and his cabinet backing a Palestinian state.........

...yes, because there's an "alterior motive" in everything.

Like Kennedy, did you know that he was killed by Zionist agents who...AHH! THEY FOUND ME NO!!! THE TRUTH IS OUT TH-

Of course, it's impossible :rolleyes: that Bush is as tired as the rest of the world with the problems in Israel and honestly wants to see this problem solved.

It would look good as his "legacy".

That's as "alterior" as this gets.

[Funky Monk]

Thankyou, a man who doesnt see the world absolutely as a battle between opposing sides.

Bush gains nothing from a continued war between Israel and Palestine. Peace would go some way to calming down the other Arab nations and making his job of "promoting world peace" a hell of a lot easier.

[MiniOswald]

He gets one thing from supporting a continued battle between Israel and Palestine, continued arms sales, those F16's hovering about arent israeli built. Also as long as americans see 'evil' arabs blowing up the good democracy loving israelis bush can still claim that terrorism is a big threat to the US and its allies

[bolshevik butcher]

Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?

[h&s]

Before the intifada Israeli industry used to rely on the people of Gaza city for cheap labour to do all the shit jobs no-one else wanted. The intifada in Gaza has been damagin to Israeli capitalism, so it is in their interests to put an end to it (after oppressing the Palestinians as much as they like of course).
Now Ariel Sharon looks like a dove of peace to all of those borgeois journalists with short-term memory problems, which hides what the IDF are doing in the West Bank, along with their 'security fence.'


Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?
We&#39;re talking about religous fundamentalists on both sides here..... <_<

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by h&[email protected] 20 2005, 08:13 PM



Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?
We&#39;re talking about religous fundamentalists on both sides here..... <_<
Most people on both sides AREN&#39;T FUNDMENTALISTS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :P If most people could accept an agreement, it would stop the fundementalists represnting a good cause, palistinean freedom.

[h&s]

Originally posted by Clenched Fist+Feb 20 2005, 09:00 PM--> (Clenched Fist @ Feb 20 2005, 09:00 PM)
h&[email protected] 20 2005, 08:13 PM



Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?
We&#39;re talking about religous fundamentalists on both sides here..... <_<
Most people on both sides AREN&#39;T FUNDMENTALISTS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :P If most people could accept an agreement, it would stop the fundementalists represnting a good cause, palistinean freedom. [/b]
Oh yes - most people would accept that, but their leaders never would. The only solution is an abolition of this type of leadership.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by h&s+Feb 20 2005, 09:03 PM--> (h&s @ Feb 20 2005, 09:03 PM)
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 20 2005, 09:00 PM

h&[email protected] 20 2005, 08:13 PM



Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?
We&#39;re talking about religous fundamentalists on both sides here..... <_<
Most people on both sides AREN&#39;T FUNDMENTALISTS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :P If most people could accept an agreement, it would stop the fundementalists represnting a good cause, palistinean freedom.
Oh yes - most people would accept that, but their leaders never would. The only solution is an abolition of this type of leadership. [/b]
But these people wouldn&#39;t be leading anyone anymore would they? Because either side would no longer see the point?

[h&s]

I look forward to the day that happens. :)

[Intifada]

Before the intifada Israeli industry used to rely on the people of Gaza city for cheap labour to do all the shit jobs no-one else wanted. The intifada in Gaza has been damagin to Israeli capitalism, so it is in their interests to put an end to it (after oppressing the Palestinians as much as they like of course).
Now Ariel Sharon looks like a dove of peace to all of those borgeois journalists with short-term memory problems, which hides what the IDF are doing in the West Bank, along with their &#39;security fence.&#39;


Exactly.

The "pullout" from Gaza is intended to divert the attention from the West Bank, while the Intifada is proving to be damaging to Israel&#39;s economy.

Even after the "pullout", Gaza&#39;s borders, coastline and air-space will be controlled by Israel, effectively creating an open-air prison, although present restrictions are also prison-like.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 20 2005, 01:50 PM
Both sides could surley settle for an independant palistinean state, mad up of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem?
The Palestinian Authority is certainly willing to settle for that - and it is settling, since it&#39;s about 22% of Palestine. The PLO declared that willingness long ago.

Israel is not. Neither Likud nor Labor favors such a settlement.

The other divisive issue is the right of return for refugees who were expelled in the 1948 campaign of ethnic cleansing which created Israel. The most basic, universally recognized principles of human rights say that people have a right to return to the land of their birth. Israel categorically refuses to let any such thing happen, even with token numbers.