Is Sweden Socalist?

[xx_refused_xx]

Hello all, how is everyone doing? anyways... i was wondering and thinking, I remember in school hearing about that Sweden has a strong socalist government, is that true? by the way I love Sweden.... they must be one of the most anti war nations ever. I also heard that they have a law saying that you cannot own privete land, and the land is everyones there, i forgot what it's called but you know what i mean, so what is everyone's opinion on Sweden?

[encephalon]

as far as nations go, sweden is probably one of the furthest to the left in the contemporary world, save cuba. Like cuba, however, they aren't socialist. They use money. They are one of the better working welfare states, though, from what I understand. I know this site gets a lot of hits from sweden.. they'd probably be able to provide more insight than anyone.

[xx_refused_xx]

yes vary true, also i heard a stroy about this CEO got a speeding tickit and cost him about 400 or so but if a working class person got one would be 10 dollars. but that is what i heard, but still.... sweden is one of the top places in my list of nations i want to visit.

[marxist_socialist_aussie]

on another message board I post, one of the mods is from sweden (she is very left wing) and when this was asked her response was basically that they are just a quite left social democrat sort of thing. Not socialist, but still contain many aspects of socialism i.e. strong welfare etc.

[__ca va?]

Though I've never been to Sweden I think it must be one of the best places in the world.
But this stands for Scandinavia as a whole: Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland. For example they all have top rankings in democracy (survey made by Freedom House)

I've found these in the 2005 jan 31 Newsweek:

Public institutions ratings; top 5:
1. Denmark
2. Iceland
3. Finland
4. New Zealand
5. Norway

Low child poverty; top 5:
1. Sweden 2.6%
2. Norway 3.9%
3. Finland 4.3%
4. Belgium 4.4%
5. Denmark 5.1%

Income equality; top 5:
1. Denmark
2. Japan
3. Czech Republic
4. Finland
5. Norway

[SubZ]

i live in sweden and its not socialist. Sweden is going right down the mud if you ask me...

[(R)evolution of the mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 02:48 PM
i live in sweden and its not socialist. Sweden is going right down the mud if you ask me...
I live in Fin^h^h^hNokialand and we're going there right beside you as our local capitalists keep selling everything to the americans.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I remember in school hearing about that Sweden has a strong socalist government, is that true?


No.

It's capitalist, not socialist.



I also heard that they have a law saying that you cannot own privete land, and the land is everyones there

I heavily doubt that is true.

There's a lot of private ownership in Sweden, just like in any other
capitalist nations.



so what is everyone's opinion on Sweden?

In the political sense, or...?


Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland. For example they all have top rankings in democracy (survey made by Freedom House)



Come to Scandinavia and see for yourself. There is not much "democracy".

[xx_refused_xx]

Ok thanks everyone, sorry to waste your time tho, and for NWOG i'm sorry if i upseted you, i just didn't know, that is why we ask and learn so we will know.

[Fidelbrand]

I would say Sweden is a social democracy ..... (?) a bit different from socialist.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 09:56 PM
Come to Scandinavia and see for yourself. There is not much "democracy".
It really depends whether we hold a procedural or substantive view on democracy (I am for the latter (more inclusive).)
but, pls educate me on the electoral system in Sweden for example.

thanks. http://www.morethanwords.it/studenti/calshop/gnammy14.gif

[cormacobear]

Sweden is still a capitalist state and has been moving farther right since about 1999. There is private property and the means of production are in private hands. However virtually every worker is employed under a collective bargaining agreement. On average they work 30 hours a week, and if i'm not mistaken like Denmark get 6 weeks paid vacation a year; compared to N. Americas two. Taxes are scaled with wages with the wealthiest paying up to 70% while the poor or unemployed pay nothing and receive enough to support there families untill they get back on there feet. Education, health care, affordable housing, heating electricity and many other essentials are heavily subsidized by the government making them affordable for all. And the speading ticket story is true fines are scaled to income.

However the governments refusal to use it's tax wealth for investment, instead relying on private investment for growth. Led to a economic depression. This was the oppertunity the wealthy elite had been waiting for stating it proves socialist ideals could not provide stable growth. Since that time taxes on the wealthy have fell, government funding of essentials have fallin...etc. During the 70's 80's and 90's Swedens population had one of the highest confidence levels in their democracy, and remained in the top three for highest standard of living. Both have fallen dramatically in the last decade.

[__ca va?]

Come to Scandinavia and see for yourself. There is not much "democracy".

Hah! Come to Hungary and see what we have :lol:

It's only a matter of comparison, things are relative ;)
BTW, I think that Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands are models that provide wealth for the huge majority of the population, so the establishment of socialism would be the easiest there.

And it also depends on what we consider socialism. For example, I'm reformist and libertarian. I think that ideal democracy, without corruption and with well-separated power is the best way of governing, it provides equality for everyone. I also think that people have to look after themselves, the state has only to help them in this.

[Dysfunctional_Literate]

I think social hedonism is very cool. It brings us that mush closer. Anyway, I have a question... Is it easy for the wealthy to avoid taxes in Sweden because in America all the rich people use loopholes and stuff.

[(R)evolution of the mind]

Much of of what cormacobear said is quite similarly in Finland (neighbour of Sweden) too, but I think the country has gone even further right in the last decade.

I don't know if it is similarly in Sweden, but in comparing vacation days, it should be noted that if we keep a week's vacation, we must use one day for saturday too! So in the end we have just five weeks' vacation.

In the less educated fields there are (byrocratic bourgeois) unions that supposedly bargain every few years for wages, but at least the union where most technical academic people supposedly belong is the capitalists' lapdog and is unlikely to ever go to strike or otherwise fight over anything.

In regard to democracy, the Swedes were allowed to vote on the Euro (and decided against it), while we weren't and the government isn't going to let the public vote on the new EU constitution either. "The public doesn't want to be harassed with voting" the government line goes.

Swedish government also subsidises cheap broadband to remote districts. The Finnish government does nothing and we have very expensive broadband.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

and for NWOG i'm sorry if i upseted you, i just didn't know, that is why we ask and learn so we will know.

No worries, I'm not mad at you. Why should I? :)

Welcome to the forum ;)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by __ca [email protected] 6 2005, 05:00 PM
BTW, I think that Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands are models that provide wealth for the huge majority of the population, so the establishment of socialism would be the easiest there.


Emphasized by me.

I live in Holland and believe me, it's increasingly turning rightwing.

The parties that are currently at power and the strongest opposition party all want to abolish/decrease social securities, decrease labour rights, furthen the wealth inequality between rich and poor, higher the pension age, lower the pensions, an identification obligation and more fucked up stuff.

Some hasn't been introduced yet, it's currently being "discussed" due to some protest, but it looks like that the measures as stated above will all be carried through.

There is in Holland a shortage of houses. Driving the prices of houses up dramaticly. The government has always regulated house prices in Holland, but they have recently decided to "release" the prices of a large number of houses.

Meaning that the owners can put up the price at whatever height they want. Calculations have been made to estimate what will happen if this measure kicks in; expecting that workingclass individuals will loose a third of their income on houserent.

Also, a large number of houses is currently being demolished by housing companies to replace it with upperclass and middle-class houses. Driving the prices even higher.

This thing is happening at my place right now. My aunt's, who lives on a 5 minutes walking distance, her house will be demolished and replaced by houses for rich senior's. They will be upgrading my house, after which the rents will skyrocket.(We aren't being informed and the muncipality is keeping groups representing residents out of meetings)

Furthermore there is talk of abolishing minimum wage, at short term there are plans to let people work below minimum wage, so that they can gain "experience".

Plus, the government has put a stricter controll and rules on social security, put pension age higher and schools are increasingly expensive. Looks like they are trying to flood the market with workers.

Foreigners who are often cheaper sources of labour will probaly be blamed for the joblosses of the native Dutch. So I am expecting a steady popularity increase for the racist and neo-liberal parties.

And extreme-rightwing parties with "charismatic" leaders have been popular here in the past 4 years orso.

Hmm, I am waaay off topic. Anyway hope this has been helpfull.

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 05:18 AM
by the way I love Sweden.... they must be one of the most anti war nations ever. I also heard that they have a law saying that you cannot own privete land, and the land is everyones there, i forgot what it's called but you know what i mean, so what is everyone's opinion on Sweden?
Hello all, how is everyone doing? anyways... i was wondering and thinking, I remember in school hearing about that Sweden has a strong socalist government, is that true?

No, Sweden is not socialist. Sweden has been ruled by the Social Democratic party most of the 20th Century, with a few exceptions. In 1938 there was an agreement made between the Social Democratic Party/The union (They have always had a very close connection (the other unions are very small)) and the capitalist class. The labour movement promised class peace and got promised a higher living standard and "nice" capitalists who shared some of their profits in social reforms. Instead of dragging a wheel barrel full of dirt, the worker could push a shopping cart after a week of hard work.

The Social Democratic party really suceeded diciplin the workers. The strike rate dropped and the Social Democratic Party and LO (the large union) took care of eventual conflicts. Mussolini even called Sweden "the perfect fascist state", the Social democrats succeeded better then the fascists, and with less violence. Well, as said we atleast got some out of it wellfare for all, etc. If we would have fought harder, we might have lost and gained nothing, or even a fascist rule...or we would have got everything.

But now (it begun around 30 years ago, but the last 10 years or so have been real hard) the capitalists refuse to keep their part of their promise, but we unfortunatly still keep our part. The wellfare system is being destroyed, and everything is just getting worse. The capitalist class are in a global offence, and in Sweden were the working class are used to let the Union and the Social Democratic party handle the conflicts, are having a serious lack in experince when it comes to class struggle. The result being a total defeat; the working class here are having a very hard time mounting an effective defence (much less a counter-attack) against the capitalist offence, and we loose important struggles over and over again. The working class have started to awake and gain counciousness, but that is not enough. We wont have anything left if it continues this way. And we really, really need to cooperate with the working class in other nations. Not only to trade experiences, but because capitalism is global and the resistance must be so as well.

If the capitalist class say "we will lower your wages, and let you do more work...if you protest, we move our business to Estonia (whatever) and you will get no money at all, muahahaha!" and we can not do much. The capitalists are playing the working class against each other...we must stand united. The good thing is that this new form of production with "Lean Produktion" "just-in-time" and "Kaizen" is that it is very vurnerable if we suceed in our struggle. It needs a constant flow of transports, a strike (or just a little delay) amongst the truck drivers or some part of the production chain might have very serious consecvenses for the capital. For example:

In 1991, less then 200 workers at Renaults motor factory in Cléon went on strike, which in a few weeks resulted in that 60% of the cooperations total production stopped and 40 000 workers were permitted. And in Great Brittain 2001 some truck drivers and farmers blocked oil terminals in protest of the high price. When the blockade ended after a single week, the store chains let it be told that they could just manage the food suply in a single day and that one of the worlds largest car manufactures was close to end ALL production in Europe. The enemy is much weaker then we realise.


Edit:
I also heard that they have a law saying that you cannot own privete land, and the land is everyones there,

I do believe that you are talking about "Allemansrätten" (all men's right)
and I think it means that every one is free to walk in private owned forests and land as they like, except if it is like crops or gardens, etc.