Best Shot

[truthman]

I just would like to see your Communists best shot as to why Capitalism sucks.

[NovelGentry]

You'd be hard pressed to get someone like myself to seriously say "capitalism sucks." I'm with Marx on this, capitalism has advanced the means of production and the capabilities of human society more than any other previous system (edit: and more than all previous systems combined.). It is not only a necessary step in the progression of man, but at one time was a wanted one, and for us should be a wanted one when a nation truly does not have the means to progress to socialism, materially speaking.

If you think this is about what "sucks" more, you've already misconstrued points of any true Marxists on this board and I can only presume a number of other ideologies.

[truthman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 07:19 AM
You'd be hard pressed to get someone like myself to seriously say "capitalism sucks." I'm with Marx on this, capitalism has advanced the means of production and the capabilities of human society more than any other previous system (edit: and more than all previous systems combined.). It is not only a necessary step in the progression of man, but at one time was a wanted one, and for us should be a wanted one when a nation truly does not have the means to progress to socialism, materially speaking.

If you think this is about what "sucks" more, you've already misconstrued points of any true Marxists on this board and I can only presume a number of other ideologies.
Thats why Im saying take your best shot. Because I am willing to see what you guys think. I just posted a thread, where you guys can correct my "misconceptions".
Anyways, nice to see, that some people don't sleep either.

[NovelGentry]

Thats why Im saying take your best shot. Because I am willing to see what you guys think. I just posted a thread, where you guys can correct my "misconceptions".

But you're asking me to take a shot at why capitalism sucks. I don't think it's right to agree that it does suck. It has problems, a lot more problems than other more advanced socio-economic systems, but it does not "suck." It's a necessary step. Just like socialism is a necessary step. Just like communism is a necessary step if indeed there it proves there is a more equal and sustainable system beyond that.

You're asking for subjective reasoning. My personal distate for it is born out of it's inequality and immorality, holding the almight profit and capital over human welfare and freedom. Does that mean it sucks? I guess. Still it is a necessary step. Is that why we need to abandon it? Maybe for some, but the fix to those problems found in socialism/communism are initially changes which are unavoidable. So whether it sucks or not, it's gone when it's time is up.


Anyways, nice to see, that some people don't sleep either.

Why would I sleep? Then I'd miss all the primetime discussion with people like yourself. :lol:

My insomnia is caused by a very simple and valid excuse which I cannot control, I can't sleep.

[truthman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 07:49 AM

Thats why Im saying take your best shot. Because I am willing to see what you guys think. I just posted a thread, where you guys can correct my "misconceptions".

But you're asking me to take a shot at why capitalism sucks. I don't think it's right to agree that it does suck. It has problems, a lot more problems than other more advanced socio-economic systems, but it does not "suck." It's a necessary step. Just like socialism is a necessary step. Just like communism is a necessary step if indeed there it proves there is a more equal and sustainable system beyond that.

You're asking for subjective reasoning. My personal distate for it is born out of it's inequality and immorality, holding the almight profit and capital over human welfare and freedom. Does that mean it sucks? I guess. Still it is a necessary step. Is that why we need to abandon it? Maybe for some, but the fix to those problems found in socialism/communism are initially changes which are unavoidable. So whether it sucks or not, it's gone when it's time is up.


Anyways, nice to see, that some people don't sleep either.

Why would I sleep? Then I'd miss all the primetime discussion with people like yourself. :lol:

My insomnia is caused by a very simple and valid excuse which I cannot control, I can't sleep.
Thanks for the response. That was all I was asking for. The reason why you believe capitalism is not the best system. I don't think capitalism is god-like, but I do feel it is better than Communism.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 07:19 AM
You'd be hard pressed to get someone like myself to seriously say "capitalism sucks." I'm with Marx on this, capitalism has advanced the means of production and the capabilities of human society more than any other previous system (edit: and more than all previous systems combined.). It is not only a necessary step in the progression of man, but at one time was a wanted one, and for us should be a wanted one when a nation truly does not have the means to progress to socialism, materially speaking.
There is no "step" beyond capitalism; either an inidividual's rights are protected or they're not- that's what we should be aiming for. It is this characteristic (that has been followed only partially) that has resulted in "advancement more than any other previous system". The reason for this is that in previous systems, individual rights did not exist. They don't seem to exist under socialism either and even less so under communism.

By what reasoning is socialism is the "next step" ? How did you actually come this conclusion ?

[NovelGentry]

Thanks for the response. That was all I was asking for. The reason why you believe capitalism is not the best system. I don't think capitalism is god-like, but I do feel it is better than Communism.

This is probably answered in that other thread where you asked what I can only consider very legitimate questions. Go check out my responses there and hopefully that should answer this.


By what reasoning is socialism is the "next step" ? How did you actually come this conclusion ?

Also pretty much answered in that other thread.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Your request truthman is nothing but a ridiculous "either or" type of question. Everyone seems to fall for the "capitalism vs. communism" polarization (does that word exist in english?). There are many alternatives in both cases: you ignore anarchism as well as its alternatives (collectivism, communism, mutualism, syndicalism, etc.), plus other possibilities such as market socialism, and things such as "state regulated social-democratic capitalism". According to this view everyone here is falling for, there are only two choices: either "authoritarian leninist police state" or "free market libertarian capitalism". This kind of things really make me question the level of the debates that are going on on this forum, whose quality has dropped a lot with this last capitalist invasion.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 07:07 AM
I just would like to see your Communists best shot as to why Capitalism sucks.
The things that make Capitialism suck, specifically in the USA?

The uneven distribution of wealth into the hands of people who probably can not do a good job of managing the wealth at the benefit of the whole society. The good part is that the people who don't do a good job of managing the wealth, don't have the wealth for very long, they go broke and someone else gets it.

The uneven distribution of power to the wealthy and the abuse of power. The good part is that these people don't become dictatorial monsters as in many attempted and failed revolutions. There are much more safeguards against such a grap for power vs the failed communist revolutions. In other words you have to worry about Bill Gates and his monopolist business practices, you don't have to worry about his secret police, a bullet to the back of the head, and a secret mass grave.

The wage slave life style. I'd rather have a balance of personal and working life. Lots of very marginal people don't have such a balance, they are basically enslaved to earning wages just to live. On the good side, the free market for people in the USA has made food, goods, and services much more affordable. The socialist economic experiments without a doubt have proven to be very unworkable economies.

[NovelGentry]

The good part is that the people who don't do a good job of managing the wealth, don't have the wealth for very long, they go broke and someone else gets it.


Like what the US government is doing with it's budget/taxes.


In other words you have to worry about Bill Gates and his monopolist business practices, you don't have to worry about his secret police, a bullet to the back of the head, and a secret mass grave.

Probably not so much the secret police of Bill Gates, software is still a somewhat educated production market. But for production markets of things that don't require "educated" laborers, you do have to worry. Not so much here in the US, but the US isn't really it's own production market anymore. The third world is.


On the good side, the free market for people in the USA has made food, goods, and services much more affordable.

Well what we propose is no market. Thus there is no "affording" of goods, they are simply provided and you simply acquire them.


The socialist economic experiments without a doubt have proven to be very unworkable economies.

These were socio-economic political experiements, not just economic ones. Every single one of them jumped the gun and decided they were gonna make the move to socialism before capitalism ran it's due course (or even existed) where they were tried.