Disgracing the Iron One

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

You never cite evidence or even valid arguments. Your typical argument would be: "Anarchst ist stupidth" or "Stalin was moron!".

What did Stalin do then? Show me his brutality.

[General Secretary of RWLP]

This was taken from a message sent to an anti-Stalinist named Asadam:

This new generation of Anarchists is quit disturbing. You children these days have a sick exadreation of your own intellegence and of that of the masses. You read some Guerin or Bookchin and think you are a revolutionary who understands what Marx truely ment and develope a distane for the former Soviet Republic. This however is completly unfounded. Stalin was the greatest leader, side from Lenin, that the Revolutionary Left has ever had the pleaser of following. He brought the people of Russian in to their most properous period in history and tossed aside those who stood in the way of progress and the soviet people. He sacraficed his own reputation by taking bold steps to diciplin his countrymen and for that his statues were torn down, by so called "True Communists". You need to seriously rethink your ideology and look back to what Stalin acheved and how close he came to the parradise we all desire so greatly. I hope you rethink your neive beleves and can give something to the Revolutionary movement.

-General Secrtary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy

[NovelGentry]

**Pisses on the Iron One**

There can only be one Iron one.

http://images.scrippsweb.com/FOOD/2003/01/29/hiroyuki_sakai_e.jpg

[Paradox]

Iron Chef! :lol:

Iron Chef would beat Stalin any day! :lol:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

He sacraficed his own reputation by taking bold steps to diciplin his countrymen and for that his statues were torn down

Ahhh, poor Stalin. Did he cry?

Man, I can tell, I got pissed when they teared down my statue. :angry:

[bolshevik butcher]

It's not like he'll miss one!!!!!!!!

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

The CPC/PCQ was once Canada's party of Kruschevite revisionists. Now it maintains delightfully vague positions on more or less everything.

(This is changing. The constitution will probably be ammended at the conference this Spring to favour Quebec Sovreignty, and propaganda of the deed.)

(Kidding.)

[STI]

I thought you were gone <_<

[General Secretary of RWLP]

I thought you were gone

Your disgraceful trashing of my thread has not detered me from posting on this site. And I will not stop until everyone here knows the truth of Stalin&#39;s teachings.

- General Secetary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

More stories of purges ha?

Millions of people were killed, a lot of them were even revolutionaries. Their death was usually precedeed by an extremely painfull stay at one of the numerous gulags. Millions more died due to poor military decision by the pseudo Generalissimo. With all this, the only thing that minds you are . . . Stalin statues&#33;

[General Secretary of RWLP]

Millions of people were killed, a lot of them were even revolutionaries

This is a common misconception of the neive anarchist youth. Stalin only killed people who are called "counter-revolutionarys", these people wanted to hurt the workers movment in Russia and alow Facists to gain power. This may be hard a hard concept for you to understand but real Communists have to eliminate the threats to the people. Only those who are extremly neive, like you, beleive that all can be solved through smoking weed and watching "Farenhiet". I hope you will revise your sick ideologe.

- General Secretary of GHRWLP

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Don&#39;t dismiss Micheal Moore fucker, I have a fuckin statue of him planted in my backyard. I start every morning by pledging allegiance to comrade Sta ... eh - Micheal Moore.

Dear cultist.

As I recall correctly the USSR failed, MASSIVE. Many people who had helped the bolsheviks to come to power, ended up as victims of soviet stateoppression. Many more people, who supported the ideal of a classless communist society, ended up in the Gulags, during Stalin&#39;s reign.

He didn&#39;t only try to expand the USSR a la imperialism, but also activly helped the Hitler regime. Stalin threw revolutionaries in the gulags, while his closest associates were capitalists.

Stalin was in obvious agreement with the statecapitalists, otherwise it wouldn&#39;t have been possible for such a large group of capitalists to achieve such high positions. It shouldn&#39;t be a suprise, that his closest associates renounced him and revisioned the USSR.

PS: explain to me the "naive anarchist" what a contra-revolutionary is. Does such a person oppose Stalin or Marx?

- Chairman of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist (FGD) (4th internationale) split from the THD.

[General Secretary of RWLP]

As I recall correctly the USSR failed, MASSIVE. Many people who had helped the bolsheviks to come to power, ended up as victims of soviet stateoppression. Many more people, who supported the ideal of a classless communist society, ended up in the Gulags, during Stalin&#39;s reign.

He didn&#39;t only try to expand the USSR a la imperialism, but also activly helped the Hitler regime. Stalin threw revolutionaries in the gulags, while his closest associates were capitalists.

Stalin was in obvious agreement with the statecapitalists, otherwise it wouldn&#39;t have been possible for such a large group of capitalists to achieve such high positions. It shouldn&#39;t be a suprise, that his closest associates renounced him and revisioned the USSR.

The USSR did not fail beacuse of Stalin&#39;s programs, infact Russia was most properous during Stalin&#39;s reing. The true crooks behind the fall of Soviet Russia were the devius Revisionists and Imperialist Americans who sabitoged the USSR and caused its downfall.


explain to me the "naive anarchist" what a contra-revolutionary is. Does such a person oppose Stalin or Marx?

Yes they do oppose Stalin and Marx.

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy

[Karl]

as i recall Trotsky was exiled... i guess he needed to be purged becuase he was a "reactionary evil imperialist revisionist pig right? he was endangering communism right? along with millions of other workers,generals and statesmen who were pruned almost entirely at random.
infact Russia was most properous during Stalin&#39;s reing.
really... i would like some actual statistics, as in how many citizen, military and political deaths occured during his reign. Along with the economics and GNP at the time.


as i recall reading, during the battle of stalingrad the russian infantry had one rifle for 2 men...... meaning half of your infantry does not have a rifle. sounds very
properous to me

[General Secretary of RWLP]

as i recall reading, during the battle of stalingrad the russian infantry had one rifle for 2 men...... meaning half of your infantry does not have a rifle.

Actually beacuse of Stalin&#39;s great five year plans the country DID prosper, you damn FOOL&#33; READ UP ON IT, IT IS COMMON knowlege&#33; Unless you are Revisionist&#33;

-General Secretary of GHRWLP

[Lauren]

Stalin he did make the USSR more prosperous but the cost was to high (I mean the human toll) I have read about Stalin&#39;s era. He not only exiled Trotsky but then chased him and murdered him. Trotsky was a true revolutionist and did not deserve to die. Military deaths exceded 10 million as did civilian during his reign but that was largely due to WW2. Stalin was to paranoid that&#39;s why he killed so many ok he did have a reason for being paranoid Hitler but that&#39;s no excuse for murdering so many of his countrymen. Because of Stalin Communism is viewed by many as evil and inherently wrong, he was no good. He was an evil sadist bastard.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by General Secretary of [email protected] 13 2005, 03:25 AM
The USSR did not fail beacuse of Stalin&#39;s programs, infact Russia was most properous during Stalin&#39;s reing. The true crooks behind the fall of Soviet Russia were the devius Revisionists and Imperialist Americans who sabitoged the USSR and caused its downfall.


explain to me the "naive anarchist" what a contra-revolutionary is. Does such a person oppose Stalin or Marx?

Yes they do oppose Stalin and Marx.

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy
Yes, Stalin is partly to blame for the failure of the USSR. These revisionists were some of Stalin&#39;s best friends and associates. They had the most power after Stalin. How do you explain that Stalin was befriended with revisionists? Or that the entire top of the Soviet Communist Party turned out to be revisionsist?

No, American sabotage is a weak excuse. The USSR sabotaged the US as well, but they didn&#39;t collapse.

There are large diffences between how Marx described Communism and how Stalin practised it. So again I ask you, who was the contra-revolutionary? Stalin or Marx?

Sidenote: the story of rifleshortages is not true. The USSR had vast quantities of weapons. The problem were the impossible orders of Stalin, poor quality of some weapons, poor quality of the officer corps, poor tactics. Even in Leningrad which was surrounded and isolated, there wasn&#39;t a shortage of rifles.

[Wiesty]

who cares, what has stalin done besides be a moron

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 08:38 PM
who cares, what has stalin done besides be a moron
Yet another fantastic critique.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 08:38 PM
who cares, what has stalin done besides be a moron
Give fuckin argumentation. To take up your style:

who cares, what has Wiesty done besides be a moron

[General Secretary of RWLP]

who cares, what has Wiesty done besides be a moron

I agree, it just shows how weak the anti-Leninist arguments are.

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy

[Lauren]

Where did you hear there were no shortages because every history book I&#39;ve read says they only had two weapons for every three people.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by General Secretary of [email protected] 13 2005, 11:55 PM

who cares, what has Wiesty done besides be a moron

I agree, it just shows how weak the anti-Leninist arguments are.

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy
Yeah Wiesty is head of the anti-Leninist argumentation. :rolleyes: That would make as much sense ass claiming him to be the typical leftist, or you the typical Leninist.

- El Presidente

[Wiesty]

im not anti-lenin, im anti-stalin

[Wiesty]

Originally posted by General Secretary of [email protected] 12 2005, 04:06 PM

I thought you were gone

Your disgraceful trashing of my thread has not detered me from posting on this site. And I will not stop until everyone here knows the truth of Stalin&#39;s teachings.

- General Secetary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy
and i shalth not stopeth until everyone knows the brutality of stalins stupidity

forced-collectivization my ass <_<

[General Secretary of RWLP]

You never cite evidence or even valid arguments. Your typical argument would be: "Stalin was moron&#33;".

I agree, they can never truely give any clear reson why they hate him so much, when he has done so much for the Russian people&#33;

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy

[Wiesty]

ok, so he tried to imrpove russia, but only on the backs of millions of slave workers. He executed and worked millions to the death, anyone who dissagreed with him was shot instantly or sent to the gulags.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by General Secretary of [email protected] 14 2005, 10:27 PM

You never cite evidence or even valid arguments. Your typical argument would be: "Stalin was moron&#33;".

I agree, they can never truely give any clear reson why they hate him so much, when he has done so much for the Russian people&#33;

-General Secretary of GHRWLP, Rono McKoy
Cheap shot.

There are plenty of reasons why I think that Stalin&#39;s policy was wrong. I notified Wiesty, so that he would think about what he says. He has to give reasons and that is what he doesn&#39;t do. He also says "Anarchst ist stupidt", but never gives reasons. Please, don&#39;t abuse my texts for you own porpuse.

The entire top of the Communist Party of Russia under Stalin was revisionist. With all the millions of people locked up and/or killed, he didn&#39;t even manage to get the enemies down who were the closest to him. Wouldn&#39;t you call that sever mismanagement? Stalin was even in agreement with the Statecapitalists, otherwise he would have noted that they were not Marxists.

Furthermore, instead of letting the state "wither" away or even giving the workers more autonomy - he grasped more power for himself and the Communist Party. We know how that went. The most powergreedy bastards always make it to leader, you can&#39;t expect from such a person to let his power wither away.

Many people, among them Bakunin already knew that the USSR was doomed to fail and become a bureacratic dictatorship.

I could give you a ton of reasons, but I won&#39;t. You should note the most obvious. The USSR collapsed due to internal faults. Due to a rotten structure, a rotten base. It was merely a tower of cards, which just waited to collapse. Stalin has failed.

- El Pope

[Thomas]

I just want to ask, when did Stalin tend a crop field? When did he pick up a gun and fight for his country?

Stalin made the USSR a capitalist country veiled with false Communist Propaganda, Stalins party murdered millions of Kulaks by confiscation of food/land/tools. Leaving many of them to starve to death, if it was a true Communist country then no-one would have starved. Stalin used Cominform as an excuse to commit these atrocities.

Anyone researched Cominform in Eastern Europe? How almost every country had only pro-Stalin Communist parties in elections, and any rebellious parties (branded counter-revolutionaries for their Marxist beliefs) who openly opposed Stalinism where disbanded, with many of the leaders exiled or murdered.

So we have a USSR devastated by war and famine and then we have Cominform enforcing Dictatorships on its people and exploiting their economies and labour force.

This isn&#39;t Communism, it&#39;s camouflaged Capitalism.

[Wiesty]

ya he&#39;s got a point, he just sat in the office and ordered the deaths of millions, where as people like castro, were part of the revolution, he fought for freedom, he didnt just sit their and order people around

[che-Rabbi]

To develop what wiesty said, Stalin was an evil tyrant and i&#39;d almost compare him to Adolf Hitler. When Hitler put Barbarossa into action and attacked The Soviet Union ( may she rest in peace), Richard Sorge of the soviet union radioed Moscow and when Stalin learend of the attack he didnt believe it. He was suspicious of everyone around him except, for some reason, Hitler. What sickens me the most is that Stalin, the commrad who&#39;d kill anyone who wasn&#39;t 100% communist , sent timber, wheat and other raw materials ( that could have fead those poor Ukrainians ) To none other than Adolf Hitler . The 100% fascist who&#39;d kill you if you married a jew or listened to jazz. Stalin did this after Hitler invaded Poland. He also caused the Ukrainian genocide, if i&#39;m not mistaken.

[Vinny Rafarino]

When Hitler put Barbarossa into action and attacked The Soviet Union

That is of course not to be confused with when he put Barbarella in action and attacked my ability to stand up in class.

[Raisa]

There was more to it then just Stalin.

We need to be constructive criticisers here.
Mao said that in his own special way.

If we dont want to be real and examine things honestly then we are bound to fail. So through criticism we are stronger.

I think we like to simply blame it on Stalin, but this is lazy and there is more to it then that.


The way the system worked in the Soviet Union was bound to allow something like that to happen. Stalin had too much power. People next to him benifitted from the personality cult in the beginning, so they did nothing, untill they realized they couldnt becuase it got too strong.

Personality cults are counter revolutionary. No matter how fine Lenin is.

One man cant do everything. You cant blame entire historical events on one person. Stalin was at the most 5 percent of the problem, because there is always more to it then that.

[comradesteele]

i may be complety going agaisnt everyone here but i don&#39;t think stalin was that bad. yes he was quite bad but he did have many successes, and the USSR needed a strong leader at the time. although i am disgusted at his actions i can&#39;t help but admire the man. he had something about him .

[workersunity]

although i dont like stalin at all, this quote is priceless and awesome


"When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use." - Joseph Stalin, The Man of Steel

[NovelGentry]

This thread was a joke the minute it was titled "Disgracing the Iron One." I think I made this post before but apparently it got wiped with the backup after the long haul hardware fixes.

The fact is, this thread was focused, if anything to push that leadership personality cult, not the ideas, not the practice, not even in particular what went down. It is blatantly titled to say that no one should "Disgrace" the great Stalin. And that&#39;s exactly the problem. Regardless of whether Stalin was "good or evil" (even if you believe in such things) or whether what he did helped or hurt people, this kind of attitude needs to be shoved right back in people&#39;s faces.

When leaders cannot be criticized by people, followers, or not, without those people in fear of the consequence, there is a big problem. Even if that consequence is as minor as the retribution of the General Secretary here.

When criticizing one of Stalin&#39;s policies becomes "Disgracing the Iron One" and such things lead to ridicule from the party line, there&#39;s a much bigger issue than whether or not that policy was the best thing to do.

[rice349]

Yes, Stalin did have a number of successes and made some significant contributions towards socialism. However, he&#39;s gotten a very bad rap particularly in the west which has tried to portray him as a power hungry tyrant willing ot starve millions upon millions of people for no apparent reason other than he disagreed with him (lies&#33;) EVen anti-communist historians (Conquest, Ulam) have a large amount of contradictions between what they say amongst each other as far as "crimes of Stalin" go.

[codyvo]

I guess it is okay to kill people just because they don&#39;t have the same beliefs as us, at least that is what Hitler said.

[NovelGentry]

I guess it is okay to kill people just because they don&#39;t have the same beliefs as us, at least that is what Hitler said.

Can you get me an exact quote.

Seriously, random assaults and accusations comparing Stalin to Hitler are pointless -- Judging by your user icon you seem to have an affinity to the Cuban revolution, you are aware Che admired Stalin? yes?

As I said before, I&#39;m not here to defend or knock Stalin, the USSR was off course long before Stalin and it&#39;s general existence was questionably backwards. But there&#39;s a real problem when you just hop from thread to thread just to call Stalin a mass murderer, even if it&#39;s the case.

[workersunity]

can you show me where che admired stalin??

[codyvo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 03:04 AM

I guess it is okay to kill people just because they don&#39;t have the same beliefs as us, at least that is what Hitler said.

Can you get me an exact quote.

Seriously, random assaults and accusations comparing Stalin to Hitler are pointless -- Judging by your user icon you seem to have an affinity to the Cuban revolution, you are aware Che admired Stalin? yes?

As I said before, I&#39;m not here to defend or knock Stalin, the USSR was off course long before Stalin and it&#39;s general existence was questionably backwards. But there&#39;s a real problem when you just hop from thread to thread just to call Stalin a mass murderer, even if it&#39;s the case.
No I can&#39;t get an exact quote because it wasn&#39;t meant to be taken seriously, and I don&#39;t much care if Che idolized Stalin, I&#39;m not saying he was all bad, just most bad.

And I have personally said that Stalin isn&#39;t as bad as Hitler they just shared a lot of faults.

[workersunity]

ya but does anyone know if che actually did like stalin??

[NovelGentry]

ya but does anyone know if che actually did like stalin??

This is a question not to be confused with "Was Che a Stalinist" which is somewhat answerable when you read his writing&#39;s and look at what he did and compare it to Stalin. However, his writings do tell that he admired Stalin, without being much more specific as to why. Within the context it would seem his admiration was held in respect to how Stalin opposed the imperialism of the US.

There are a lot of reasons to admire Stalin, and a lot of reasons to think he was probably mentally ill, and a lot of reasons to think a lot of other things about him. The problem isn&#39;t how you look at him, it&#39;s how you&#39;re gonna go about explaining why you look at him the way you do. Unfortunately it doesn&#39;t seem codyvo is going about it the right way.

I can certainly see the side he&#39;s coming from, even might share a bit of it, but he&#39;s not doing a fair job of explaining what he&#39;s saying.

So in short, yes, Che admired Stalin.

[workersunity]

well i admire anyone who fights imperialism, well in that aspect anyways