An Amusing Parallel

[redstar2000]

Reading the latest posts from "the great cappie invasion" of 2005, an amusing parallel struck me.

More than a dozen of them show up all full of piss and vinegar, ready for internet "battle" with the commie scum, confident they will beat those commie skater kids into the muck.

But they brought no intellectual weaponry with them! A few tattered scraps of cold-war rhetoric, the old "human nature" crapola...one of them brought along his "God" but "He" didn't help either.

When we commies and anarchists pounded their positions with argument and evidence, their response was to whine that "at least capitalism gives me a chance to get rich".

So does the lottery, suckers!

I think we at RevLeft should be encouraged by the outcome of these exchanges; one might even wish that the cappie invaders were typical of the intellectual dwarves that we'll encounter in the coming decades.

No such luck. A Dick Chaney has a higher IQ than all of our "invaders" put together...and he and those like him will be much tougher.

But meanwhile, we have some grounds for celebration -- in the virtual equivalent of "the Bay of Pigs"...the pigs lost again! :D

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Latifa]

:lol: Hilarious analogy.


More than a dozen of them show up all full of piss and vinegar, ready for internet "battle" with the commie scum, confident they will beat those commie skater kids into the muck.

But they brought no intellectual weaponry with them! A few tattered scraps of cold-war rhetoric, the old "human nature" crapola...one of them brought along his "God" but "He" didn't help either.


Honestly, laughing this hard isn't healthy =D

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

:lol:

God, that cracked me up.

It does bore though. "Communism is when the government steals your freedom" Yawn.

"Anarchism doesn't exist, because the people rule, thus are a government" :P

Genial analogy though

[Urban Rubble]

I officially move to make RedStar our Grand Exalted Leader. We shall erect a statue of his Godlike physique on the mainpage and every year we will gather beneath it to sing, hold hands and praise Stalin for bringing us such a flawless revolutionary figurehead.

Viva El Presidente Red Star !

Haha, but seriously, that was a good post, I enjoyed it.

[Anarchist Freedom]

:lol: :lol: That was hysterical especially the god part made me fall out of my chair laughing.

[Paradox]

Victory over the pigs! :lol:

[amusing foibles]

10$ they all come from the same message board / high school

[crazyman]

Why do you think that your are smarter than us?

[Latifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:20 AM
Why do you think that your are smarter than us?

WHY KILL JEW!
WHY? :angry:

[Outlaw289]

Can you point me to a victorious battle or a signed peace treaty?

Hell, even if the Bay of Pigs invasion parallel is correct (which it isnt), in that case it would make us "cappies" bigger, better, richer, and more prosperous then your little, isolated, dissenter-exterminating scum hive of a communist island.

[NovelGentry]

Terms of treaty:



When we commies and anarchists pounded their positions with argument and evidence, their response was to whine that "at least capitalism gives me a chance to get rich".

concession:


in that case it would make us "cappies" bigger, better, richer, and more prosperous then your little, isolated, dissenter-exterminating scum hive of a communist island.

I think you just signed the treaty.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by crazyman
Why do you think that your are smarter than us?

Well, you're not literate in your own language, for one thing. "Your" is not a contraction of "you are".

And most of you are not literate in your own ideology either. I've seen all of the stuff you've brought up here many, many times...and often argued far more skillfully and with at least the pretense of evidence.

I don't think that "right-wingers" are necessarily "less intelligent" than lefties (there are exceptions of course...one of them currently residing in the White House).

What is continually astonishing about the cappies who post here (with few exceptions) is their unbelievable ignorance even of the basic principles of the system that they want to defend.

I don't "blame" you for this...education in capitalist society (except for the elite) is little more than glorified baby-sitting and trivial pursuit...one reason perhaps that so many people from all parts of the political spectrum come to message boards unable to compose a coherent post in reasonably correct English.

But if you guys really want to take a serious interest in politics, then, dammit, you're going to have to "bite the bullet" and read some books.

Most of the young people on this board are reading books all the time...and not just "lefty" books either. They are educating themselves to play an active role in future political struggles.

They may or may not be "smarter" than you...but they will know one hell of a lot more than you do or will.

You may think that won't matter; capitalism has all the guns.

At the moment.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[encephalon]

Why do you think that your are smarter than us?


Well, quite frankly, because your arguments are shit, and you didn't even bother looking up basic information about what you're arguing against. I'm not one to say my "enemy" is stupid, because that makes you more vulnerable than one is already.. but the arguments brought up in the last week by many newer cappies are just ridiculously redundant, and shows a lack of knowledge about what they're arguing.

I hate to say it, but you make Mr. Moneybags look like the Einstein of captalists. Bravo.

[Outlaw289]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 03:21 AM
Terms of treaty:



When we commies and anarchists pounded their positions with argument and evidence, their response was to whine that "at least capitalism gives me a chance to get rich".

concession:


in that case it would make us "cappies" bigger, better, richer, and more prosperous then your little, isolated, dissenter-exterminating scum hive of a communist island.

I think you just signed the treaty.
Heh, I see your point, but I said if the parallel was true which it isnt. It was jsut a (bad) pun.

[Anarchist Freedom]

:angry: You totally ruined the thread.

[progressive thinker]

Well considering you idolize someone who couldn't win a fucking battle in his entire life and when he went to Africa, low and behold no one supported him.
During the Bay of Pigs invasion he was outwitted by a radio playing battle sounds and somehow managed to shoot himself in the head during a firefight with empty boats. Great intelligence this man had. Apparently I'm the one who is just too dumb to not understand what he was talking about.

And I wonder how many of you have actually met someone from a communist country. Would you tell them face to face that their country wasn't a communist country and that the US sucks? You're upholding to an ideology that was paupered by an intellectual moron is proof positive that you aren't quite yet grown up. The idea that Marxism is the last stage of man is one of the most laughable ideas I've ever heard.

As for the whole "we're more literate than all y'alls" thats taken right out of the standard Democratic, leftist liberal playbook. If you want to insult me for believing in Adam Smith thats fine, but to suggest that us capitalists don't read books is attempting to make yourself feel superior because you need to feel that way to justify yourself. I'll be honest, I don't read as much as I'd like to, but whenever I'm not in school I devour whatever books I can get my hands on. My favorite books list reads like a literature 101 course: Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, Crime and Punishment.

And as for insulting intelligence I highly doubt that there is one single person on this forum who can handle the courseload that I'm in. But thats why you want communism, because you don't want people who can do better than you to succeed. Everyone should be forced to be equal.

I think you're just upset that every country is moving more to the right every single day. There may yet be a day when every country in this world is based from a democratic or republic system. And then when you try to start a "revolution" no government will even need to send any military to surpress your little revolt. The free people of the world will beat them to the task at hand. If you want to revolt against the oppression that capitalist society enforces on people then please do it in your head, you have a much better chance of succeeding that way.

[encephalon]

...low and behold no one supported him.

it's "lo and behold."


whenever I'm not in school I devour whatever books I can get my hands on. My favorite books list reads like a literature 101 course: Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, Crime and Punishment.

Congratulations for your fondness of literature. I myself am a double major in english literature and history. Of course, I'm an idiot communist, and probably lying because I'm so evil. But if you are so fond of reading, maybe you should try some philosophy for a change.

It's good that you have such a wonderfully heavy coarseload. Really, I'd give you a pat on the head and maybe a treat of some sort if only I knew who you were.

I would sooooo love to have a conversation about Adam Smith.

I'm sure you're taking fifty quarter-hours or something like that, or so you'd have us believe. Welcome to the real world, kid, nobody cares about your heavy coarse-load, nor does anyone care about mine. Don't talk about growing up until you realize that very basic concept.

You seem to think that every country is moving towards the right. I hate to break it to you, but that's simply not the case.

I don't think you're dumb. Or at least I sincerely hope you aren't, for your sake. You should, however, research that which you argue for or against, and those of you that have suddenly bursted onto this forum simply haven't. You make yourself look foolish.

[progressive thinker]

Let me ask you a question: Do you understand differential equations or even know what one looks like?

I work with them all the time, so knock it off with the "i hope you're not dumb" crap. Being condescending to others is not the best way to wipe that frown off your face.

Kid, I hope you realize that life is difficult as well. While no one may care that you are a double major in English and history, if you find that rewarding to yourself that is what matters most. If you do not then I cannot help you there. I know I love what I do even though it challenges every nerve synapse in my body. And I don't have quarter hours here, just credit hours. A few labs here and there, no big deal, unless you don't like spending all of your days in the engineering building.

And I just love how you cleverly retort my arguments by saying "Nope that isn't so". Thats definitely a way to show you know what you're talking about. I have facts, the recent election for example?

As for reading philosophy I did Linocoln Douglas debate in high school. I don't know if you're ever taken any sort of debate class or activity. In debate I actually applied philosophy to argumentation. Such as Locke, Hobbes, Kant, etc. So trying to apply the "you don't know what you're talking about" argument doesn't work.

[NovelGentry]

Well considering you idolize someone who couldn't win a fucking battle in his entire life and when he went to Africa, low and behold no one supported him.
During the Bay of Pigs invasion he was outwitted by a radio playing battle sounds and somehow managed to shoot himself in the head during a firefight with empty boats. Great intelligence this man had. Apparently I'm the one who is just too dumb to not understand what he was talking about.

Looks like someone read the works of Humberto Fontova.


Humberto Fontova holds an M.A. in history from Tulane University. He's the author of "Helldiver's Rodeo," described as "Highly entertaining!" by Publisher's Weekly, "A must-read!" by Booklist, and "Just what the doctor ordered!" by Ted Nugent.

:lol: :lol: Ted Nugent :lol: :lol:


Would you tell them face to face that their country wasn't a communist country and that the US sucks?

Indeed, why wouldn't I?


You're upholding to an ideology that was paupered by an intellectual moron is proof positive that you aren't quite yet grown up.

Ummm, did you mean created by an intellectual pauper?


The idea that Marxism is the last stage of man is one of the most laughable ideas I've ever heard.

Who said it was the last stage. I personally said I cannot say whether it is the last stage, but capitalism certainly is not, and I do believe socialism is the next major stage of man, and then communism.


As for the whole "we're more literate than all y'alls" thats taken right out of the standard Democratic, leftist liberal playbook. If you want to insult me for believing in Adam Smith thats fine, but to suggest that us capitalists don't read books is attempting to make yourself feel superior because you need to feel that way to justify yourself. I'll be honest, I don't read as much as I'd like to, but whenever I'm not in school I devour whatever books I can get my hands on. My favorite books list reads like a literature 101 course: Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, Crime and Punishment.

I really doubt you have read Adam Smith. It's his work is almost as dry as capital, unless smashing a calculator into your face is your idea of fun, you're probably just saying that. Of course I cannot tell for certain, but I can say, if you did read it, I hope for your sake you didn't actually enjoy the text itself.

You should expand on Dostoyevski there, and if you don't have time I suggest "Notes from the Underground."


And as for insulting intelligence I highly doubt that there is one single person on this forum who can handle the courseload that I'm in. But thats why you want communism, because you don't want people who can do better than you to succeed. Everyone should be forced to be equal.

Right, cause communists don't go to school! We have no clue what it's like to dealh with having to write five page papers every day. I could just imagine what would happen to us if some of us were ever required to say, write a book. Oh, btw, did I mention I'm writing a book?

I've worked 48+ hours a week (nightshifts) while attending school, granted I already knew about what I was going to school for, but that doesn't make the workload any less, just means I cut through it a bit quicker. Your assumption is extremely poor. Certainly others can disprove you with examples from their lives as well.


I think you're just upset that every country is moving more to the right every single day. There may yet be a day when every country in this world is based from a democratic or republic system. And then when you try to start a "revolution" no government will even need to send any military to surpress your little revolt. The free people of the world will beat them to the task at hand. If you want to revolt against the oppression that capitalist society enforces on people then please do it in your head, you have a much better chance of succeeding that way.

While there are certain examples of nations moving to the right, it is the general line of direction that society moves to the left. Where once sex was a taboo topic, now you can walk into any high school lunch room and hear kids using terms like "blowjob" and "anal sex." There are more people disatisfied or abandoning God than ever. Indeed you will argue, "That's cause they have the freedom to do so." Which only goes to show my point, with the freedom to actually do so, society moves leftward.

Remember, HItler was right-wing.

[RedFlagOverTrenton]

And I wonder how many of you have actually met someone from a communist country. Would you tell them face to face that their country wasn't a communist country and that the US sucks? You're upholding to an ideology that was paupered by an intellectual moron is proof positive that you aren't quite yet grown up. The idea that Marxism is the last stage of man is one of the most laughable ideas I've ever heard.

I have actually argued this point with a Cuban and a fellow from the Eastern bloc. Neither was hostile towards me, but both were conditioned by media and ideas from their old country and their new one that the types of systems they were living other were representative of the movement as a whole. Yet, they both seemed at least open to the idea that Marxism comes in many varieties and interpretations, and that there were alternative ideas as to what it meant and how it could be implemented.

Curiously enough, if you look at Russia, the older the generation a person belongs to the more likely they are to support the idea of Communism. Or, to put it another way, the more time an individual spent under "communism" (even the phony, revisionist sort, and even STALIN), the more likely they were to want the old Soviet Union back, despite its many flaws.



I think you're just upset that every country is moving more to the right every single day. There may yet be a day when every country in this world is based from a democratic or republic system. And then when you try to start a "revolution" no government will even need to send any military to surpress your little revolt. The free people of the world will beat them to the task at hand. If you want to revolt against the oppression that capitalist society enforces on people then please do it in your head, you have a much better chance of succeeding that way.

On the contrary; in many parts of the world, we're seeing either shifts to the left or dramatic revolutionary upsurges. You have the growing, deepening People's Wars in Nepal, India, and the Phillippines - and, in fact, a shift to the LEFT in Latin America, even if it's an electoral reformist left. One only need look at elections in Venezuela, Ecuador, Nicaragua (semi-recent victories for the Sandinistas) etc. And don't forget the recent growth in militancy of FARC. So, even if in the industrialized world there is a rightward shift, it would be wrong to characterize it in a blanket sort of way as a worldwide trend.

The Nepalese revolution is especially promising, especially given the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement's heavy prescence in southern Asia. The PLA marching into Kathmandu and southern India being seized by the Maoist revolutionary forces would sort of throw a monkey wrench into the whole "End of History" theses the capitalists are putting forward.

[RedFlagOverTrenton]

BTW.. I think all this "I'm smarter than you, nyah nyah" whatever stuff is really missing the mark in terms of debating and understanding our ideas. And this goes for both sides.

Although, I'm fairly sure RedStar was mostly referring to folks aside from PT: honestly man, read some of the crap in this particular section of the forum. Many of your compatriots just, well... aren't pulling their weight.

[NovelGentry]

Let me ask you a question: Do you understand differential equations or even know what one looks like?

Well it's been awhile, I haven't done those since high school calculus. But I did then, I'm sure I could break myself into it once again. For the most part (probably because it's a full year course), high school calculus at least covers up to about Calculus 3 in most colleges, in case you didn't start taking calculus until college. While certainly you have to take higher level calculus as you are a supposed engineering student, realize you don't have a monopoly on differential equations.


I work with them all the time, so knock it off with the "i hope you're not dumb" crap. Being condescending to others is not the best way to wipe that frown off your face.

So did I when I was in the 12th grade. But then I decided I wanted to go into godless computers! And Gasp now I'm going back to school for English and possibly Political Science.


And I just love how you cleverly retort my arguments by saying "Nope that isn't so". Thats definitely a way to show you know what you're talking about. I have facts, the recent election for example?

Facts are like what I brought up. Your so called facts take into account a minority of US citizens when you calculate how many people are registered to vote, how many of those people vote, and how many people of those vote for the "right wing." Granted, we do consider Kerry to be right wing.

Your argument proves that a minority of right can influence a majority of left, at best. It shows nothing about the general motion of the WHOLE of society towards either direction. My examples do.


As for reading philosophy I did Linocoln Douglas debate in high school. I don't know if you're ever taken any sort of debate class or activity. In debate I actually applied philosophy to argumentation. Such as Locke, Hobbes, Kant, etc. So trying to apply the "you don't know what you're talking about" argument doesn't work.

Bush debated; I still think you debate like Bush.

[encephalon]

Let me ask you a question: Do you understand differential equations or even know what one looks like?

*gasp* A differential equation? Those sure were hard my freshman year.


I work with them all the time, so knock it off with the "i hope you're not dumb" crap. Being condescending to others is not the best way to wipe that frown off your face.


By no means was I condescending. I truly hope you aren't dumb. Although retorting with statements such as "I do differential equations, damn you" makes you seem a bit like an ass who is simply arguing to save his own pride. The truth is, my calculator can do differential equations, and it's pretty dumb. It's a procedural task that requires nothing but input and output. Regardless, I hope you find calculus rewarding, you little genius, you. Just watch out for calculus II, now.. there are even more procedures to drone over!



Kid, I hope you realize that life is difficult as well. While no one may care that you are a double major in English and history, if you find that rewarding to yourself that is what matters most. If you do not then I cannot help you there. I know I love what I do even though it challenges every nerve synapse in my body. And I don't have quarter hours here, just credit hours. A few labs here and there, no big deal, unless you don't like spending all of your days in the engineering building.


Don't call me kid. I'm quite positive I'm older than you, and I've lived apart from the dorms and my parents both for a long time now. I refer to you as "kid" because you obviously think it's quite important that you let others know how hard you work, and the vast genius it takes to understand differential equations. I assure you, however, that it doesn't take much to do calculus, and that it truly doesn't matter. It's good that you like Mathematics, there is a bit of a shortage in that area. Yet, if you use that as a way to say "I'm smarter than everybody, I can do differential equations, even though I make arguments against things without even knowing what they are," you are displaying nothing but the fact that you are a braggart, and an unjustified one at that. Millions of people take calculus every year. Millions of people can do differential equations--in fact, I think everyone could, if they tried. It doesn't make you special.



And I just love how you cleverly retort my arguments by saying "Nope that isn't so". Thats definitely a way to show you know what you're talking about. I have facts, the recent election for example?


Yeah, the problem is you weren't worth my effort. I could have pointed out spain, or sweden, or any number of nations that are as far left as the u.s. is to the right--but why bother? You're nothing but a troll who thinks that america is the world and the world is america, and as long as you sit there trying to make baseless arguments against something you haven't even bothered researching, you don't merit a serious argument.



As for reading philosophy I did Linocoln Douglas debate in high school. I don't know if you're ever taken any sort of debate class or activity. In debate I actually applied philosophy to argumentation. Such as Locke, Hobbes, Kant, etc. So trying to apply the "you don't know what you're talking about" argument doesn't work.


ooooh, debate team. There's an accomplishment. You must've been great, using baseless arguments as you do on this forum. I'm sure you were a vital part of the hazing department of the team. Kant, Locke, Hobbes. Yikes. It's scary that you know the names of three of the most widely known philosophers on the planet. Too bad you didn't understand them, provided you actually have read their works, or at least you don't agree with any of them, with the exception of perhaps Kant, because then you would be far from being on the political right, unless you're sincerely philosophically myopic and can't make the connection between the right of then and the right of now.

Seriously, nobody cares. The one thing that matters is that your argument is cogent and sound, and displays an understanding of both what you are arguing for and that which you argue against. And thus far, you've shown no substantial knowledge about either, and spewed nothing but uneducated triteness. It's tiresome.

[progressive thinker]

Oh my gosh you've hurt my feelings so.

Looks like I hit your funny bone rhetorically speaking. And no I don't feel it important to let others know how hard I work. I'll know that when I graduate. If you feel insulted due to my accomplishments then thats why I know you chose communism as your faith. Although I love how you assume that I'm just a lowly freshman in college.

As for the whole debate team thing. You're an idiot if you don't realize that the US based most of the Constitution on Locke's theories.

Arguments being cohesive and sound (not to mention how quickly you can insult someone while pretending to remain above that person).

I can say the same about you spewing uneducated "triteness". I don't believe it was you who insulted me before by saying that I used big words randomly but I think that definitely applies to you.

You're entire argument against me is this: "You don't know anything because you haven't researched it, therefore you don't know anything."

[NovelGentry]

Although I love how you assume that I'm just a lowly freshman in college.

If there was any question on that it was probably because you brought up the question of whether or not we could do entry level calculus.


(not to mention how quickly you can insult someone while pretending to remain above that person)

If this is in reference to my Bush comment (not saying it is), I find it odd you would take me saying you debate like Bush as an insult, when indeed it is the "trend of the society" to move towards "right wing ideals" which he so steadily upholds.

You'd think you'd see him more as a pillar of light among the dark and mysterious left wing treachery!


I can say the same about you spewing uneducated "triteness". I don't believe it was you who insulted me before by saying that I used big words randomly but I think that definitely applies to you.

That statement was very clearly based on a specific argument you had made. Said argument was completely hilarious because much of it didn't make much sense. Kinda like your recent "paupered by an intellectual moron" line. Just read that line again for a minute and tell me what part about it makes sense.


You're entire argument against me is this: "You don't know anything because you haven't researched it, therefore you don't know anything."

I have no need for an argument agianst you because the brunt of your arguments are against a system that has nothing to do with what I promote. The only way to move beyond that conflict is for you to recognize what you talk about is not communism. That doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

[comrade_mufasa]

Originally posted by amusing [email protected] 4 2005, 08:41 PM
10$ they all come from the same message board / high school
:huh: for a good while I thought they were all the same person.

Would the following people please stand and take a bow.

crazyman
Outlaw289
progressive thinker
the RIGHT=FREEDOM
The Machine
America
t_wolves_fan
Publius
Right_is_right
Liberalista Classico
truthman
StrikeSDX
rightsaidtom
and any of the cappies that joined the board resently
All of those people joined our board no earlyer then Jan 30 2005. The past 3-4 days have been the most fun, if least productive, on this board in a long while and I would like to thank you. :P

[comrade_mufasa]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 4 2005, 08:17 PM
I officially move to make RedStar our Grand Exalted Leader. We shall erect a statue of his Godlike physique on the mainpage and every year we will gather beneath it to sing, hold hands and praise Stalin for bringing us such a flawless revolutionary figurehead.

Viva El Presidente Red Star !

Haha, but seriously, that was a good post, I enjoyed it.
If redstar would like to take this position I would have no objection. "Viva El Presidente Red Star !" form now on when redstar knocks out a cappie we say "Viva El Presidente Red Star !" :lol: but, yes great thread

[encephalon]

Oh my gosh you've hurt my feelings so.

Sorry.



Looks like I hit your funny bone rhetorically speaking. And no I don't feel it important to let others know how hard I work. I'll know that when I graduate. If you feel insulted due to my accomplishments then thats why I know you chose communism as your faith. Although I love how you assume that I'm just a lowly freshman in college.


I don't feel insulted at all. My whole point is that nobody cares, and the only reason you would bring it up is in order to snub others. That's infantile, and shows that you've not yet shed that part of "MY dad is richer than your dad" mentality. I assumed you were a freshman because you made a big deal out of differential equations, as an engineering student no less, and if you were much further along in calculus you'd find much better things to which you should lay claim. If you're further along in college than freshman, my sincerest apologies. Hopefully you'll get past differential equations soon.



As for the whole debate team thing. You're an idiot if you don't realize that the US based most of the Constitution on Locke's theories.


I'm not sure where you got that I didn't know that. It is in fact the reason why there was an American Revolution. Locke was a revolutionary, dolt. Locke was as far left then as communists are now. And I'm still not sure what this has to do with making arguments without adequate knowledge of the matter at hand.



Arguments being cohesive and sound (not to mention how quickly you can insult someone while pretending to remain above that person).


I insult only your insistence in mentioning that you have such a heavy workload, and can do differential equations. I've not once called you dumb.



I can say the same about you spewing uneducated "triteness". I don't believe it was you who insulted me before by saying that I used big words randomly but I think that definitely applies to you.


Wasn't me. Still don't care. If you don't know what triteness is look it up. It's not a big word, and there are far larger ones.



You're entire argument against me is this: "You don't know anything because you haven't researched it, therefore you don't know anything."


No, that's not my argument at all. My argument is that nothing else matters but the fact that you've not done your research, and it's pointless to say what you've done outside of this sphere. I don't give a fuck if you're the head of NASA's astrophysics department, it does little to change the fact that you don't even have the slightest idea about what you're talking about in this arena. You have an enemy and you don't even know exactly for what that enemy stands. There are some holes in communist/marxist theory, as there are in any theory. The problem is that you don't know enough about capitalism or communism to make an argument for or against either, nor focus on the holes in either. You've stuck to trite arguments that have no bearing at all, and you've not expanded to more detailed matters. One can only assume that you pass the opportunity simply because you aren't aware of it.

I didn't call you stupid. I call your arguments stupid. If you want to be taken seriously in debate, then you have to have a serious argument. Thus far you and the host of other new cappies have not done so. Read some of the posts done by other capitalists that have been here for a while if you want an example of serious debate.

[encephalon]

Damn, this thread was obvious flame-bait. Mission Accomplished. :D

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 12:19 AM
I think we at RevLeft should be encouraged by the outcome of these exchanges; one might even wish that the cappie invaders were typical of the intellectual dwarves that we'll encounter in the coming decades.
This is coming from the retard who is opposed to "self-ownership" because "you can sell yourself into slavery".

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 04:49 AM
Remember, HItler was right-wing.
By what standard are we judging left and right ? If it's freedom, then don't make me laugh.

[NovelGentry]

No, it's not freedom. I realize there is very authoritarian versions of socialism that cut down on freedom, although I would consider these a broken form of socialism. Economic control should be political control, and you can't have socialize production without having the political freedom for workers to decide what is necessary above all else.

I hate to say it, but I admire the way political compass sets it:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ -- view the analysis and it explains why there are two lines.

[Taiga]

Hey, Progressive Thinker, do you understand what is written on your avatar?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags
This is coming from the retard who is opposed to "self-ownership" because "you can sell yourself into slavery".

I surprised you brought this up since it is such a standing embarrassment to your whole Randian paradigm.

Still, let the reader decide...

Right-Wing "Libertarianism" and the Restoration of Slavery (http://redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1083547923&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Anarchist Freedom]

RFOT is right the whole argument where smarter then you is really not good for debating at all.

[the RIGHT=FREEDOM]

Originally posted by progressive [email protected] 5 2005, 04:49 AM
Let me ask you a question: Do you understand differential equations or even know what one looks like?

I work with them all the time, so knock it off with the "i hope you're not dumb" crap. Being condescending to others is not the best way to wipe that frown off your face.

Kid, I hope you realize that life is difficult as well. While no one may care that you are a double major in English and history, if you find that rewarding to yourself that is what matters most. If you do not then I cannot help you there. I know I love what I do even though it challenges every nerve synapse in my body. And I don't have quarter hours here, just credit hours. A few labs here and there, no big deal, unless you don't like spending all of your days in the engineering building.

And I just love how you cleverly retort my arguments by saying "Nope that isn't so". Thats definitely a way to show you know what you're talking about. I have facts, the recent election for example?

As for reading philosophy I did Linocoln Douglas debate in high school. I don't know if you're ever taken any sort of debate class or activity. In debate I actually applied philosophy to argumentation. Such as Locke, Hobbes, Kant, etc. So trying to apply the "you don't know what you're talking about" argument doesn't work.
These guys don't get it and they never will man.

They're actually trying to redefine communism because they see that as it was it was a failed economic system that is resposible for the deaths of over 100 MILLION PEOPLE.

I have never seen anything so pathetic.

[Anarchist Freedom]

You know your precious capitalism kills people to?

[encephalon]

These guys don't get it and they never will man.

They're actually trying to redefine communism because they see that as it was it was a failed economic system that is resposible for the deaths of over 100 MILLION PEOPLE.

I have never seen anything so pathetic.


How many people do you think have died under capitalism? Here's a nice stat: between 13 million and 18 million people starve to death each year in this capitalist world. Multiply by that by 200 years--and that is of course being kind, as capitalism started growing long before that--and you roughly have 2800 million people dying from the inequality in capitalism. A round of applause to the capitalists, ladies and gents.

[Professor Moneybags]

How many people do you think have died under capitalism? Here's a nice stat: between 13 million and 18 million people starve to death each year in this capitalist world.

How is capitalism to blame for that ? No straw men.


2800 million people dying from the inequality in capitalism.

What, am I going to drop dead because my neighbour earns twice what I do ? :rolleyes:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+Feb 5 2005, 10:30 AM--> (Professor Moneybags @ Feb 5 2005, 10:30 AM)
[email protected] 5 2005, 04:49 AM
Remember, HItler was right-wing.
By what standard are we judging left and right ? If it's freedom, then don't make me laugh. [/b]
So Anarchists are extreme rightwing and Bush is extreme leftwing?

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:08 PM
I surprised you brought this up since it is such a standing embarrassment to your whole Randian paradigm.

Still, let the reader decide...

Right-Wing "Libertarianism" and the Restoration of Slavery (http://redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1083547923&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
You're the one embarrasing yourself; you've posted this once and it is still just as stupid the second time round.

It's just a shame you didn't put that lengthy topic some idiot started on capitalist paradise (http://s7.invisionfree.com/capitalistparadise/index.php?showtopic=203) on your website too.


My point is rather an intellectual one: that were your system to come into existence, the restoration of slavery would logically follow from your concept of each human "owning himself" as a form of property that can be alienated--leased, rented, or sold.

So let's get this straight :

Self-ownership is wrong because I might sell myself into slavery. But if I don't own myself, then who does ? Someone else ? Society ? If I belong to someone else other than myself, Redstar, then I'm a slave anyway.

Yeah, really intellectual stuff, that. :rolleyes:

[Publius]

So I'm not free to sell myself into slavery?

That's a contradiction.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags
Self-ownership is wrong because I might sell myself into slavery.

No, it's wrong because it is a nonsensical phrase.

People are not "owned" by anyone...even themselves. The concept of ownership does not apply to people.

But, if you accept the Randian paradigm of "self ownership", then you are your own property...and it logically follows that while no one may use force to appropriate your property, you may freely dispose of yourself as you would dispose of any other property you might own.

You can rent or lease yourself, give yourself away, or sell yourself to someone...slavery.

That is the logic of your own position...which you may deny but which you cannot rebut.

I took a look at the link you provided, by the way, and noted that those people there had no rebuttals either except one: one guy said that Ayn Rand "was not a libertarian".

I was under the impression that she was your "patron saint"...not so?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Publius]

No, it's wrong because it is a nonsensical phrase.

People are not "owned" by anyone...even themselves. The concept of ownership does not apply to people.

But, if you accept the Randian paradigm of "self ownership", then you are your own property...and it logically follows that while no one may use force to appropriate your property, you may freely dispose of yourself as you would dispose of any other property you might own.

You can rent or lease yourself, give yourself away, or sell yourself to someone...slavery.

That is the logic of your own position...which you may deny but which you cannot rebut.

I took a look at the link you provided, by the way, and noted that those people there had no rebuttals either except one: one guy said that Ayn Rand "was not a libertarian".

I was under the impression that she was your "patron saint"...not so?

You don't "own" youself because as you said, the term doesn't really apply.

You are however, free to engage in any contract you consent to (Consent implies certain things).

Basically, sell yourself into slavery, I don't care.

Perhaps it's worth having a law against, I don't really think it's much of an issue.


And Rand isn't a libertarian, she's an objectivist.

Libertarianism is an economic system, objectivism is a philosophy.

She wasn't a "libertarian" for economic reasons but for philosophical reasons.

I would say our patron saint would be Adam Smith with von Mises, Friedman and Hayek thrown in there.

[encephalon]

I would say our patron saint would be Adam Smith with von Mises, Friedman and Hayek thrown in there.

teehee. That's funny.