Anarchy is Different then COmmunism

[Livetrueordie]

It seems every1 keeps ssaying that anarchy and communism are the same. Yesterday in the chat we were talking how every1 thought it wus the same and iwas the only one who thought they were different. Does any1 agree???
Communism is no state, right. While Anarchy is no government. People were saying that when there is no government people would come together to make decisions together because they would figure out together they are better. THis is like communism, the community. I say when people come together to make decisions there is a government so its not Anarchy... What does every1 think, i dont see very much of any connection.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:11 PM
I say when people come together to make decisions there is a government so its not Anarchy
From "Online Etymology Dictionary" (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=anarchy):


anarchy
1539, from M.L. anarchia, from Gk. anarkhia "lack of a leader," noun of state from anarkhos "rulerless," from an- "without" + arkhos "leader." Anarchist (1678) got a boost into modernity from the French Revolution. Anarcho-syndicalism is first recorded 1913.

[Livetrueordie]

So whats your point?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

The point being - you're wrong - that is historically, and politically the meaning of anarchy, the aim of anarchists, and the manifestation of anarchism.

In case you still don't get it:

www.anarchistfaq.org

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:11 PM
I say when people come together to make decisions there is a government so its not Anarchy...
This is false. From the Cambridge University Dictionary:

government [Show phonetics]
group noun [C] (WRITTEN ABBREVIATION govt)
the group of people who officially control a country:
the government of Israel
The government is/are expected to announce its/their tax proposals today.
The minister has announced that there will be no change in government policy.
Senior government officials will be attending a meeting tomorrow.
Theatre companies are very concerned about cuts in government grants to the arts.
A government enquiry has been launched.

Obviously in Anarchism there is nothing official, nor are there countries nor will a selected group of people have more power then others. There is no government in Anarchism.

[RedLenin]

Actually communism and anarchy are the same thing. The only thing that differs between marxists and anachists is strategy.

I think you are a little miss informed about what anarchy really is. Anarchy is based around the principals of peace, freedom, solidarity, and democracy. Democracy means that the people run everthing. And this is not the same as a state. A state is an institution where power in put in the hands of the few and the people do not have the ultimate say in policies. Under anachy people get together and decide on things. Anarchy does not mean no rules, just no rulers. I could explain the whole system of anarchy but it would take way too long. Basically people get together in their neighborhoods and decide on issues and they are represented by elected delegates who only represent the people. All things these delagates do would have to be aproved by the people.

So anarchy and communism are the same. Also, please do not confuse anarchy with lack of organization because that is dead wrong.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:34 PM
So whats your point?
I have shown you that "anarchy" and "direct democracy" are not opposites. Anarchists are against hierarchical organization.

[Livetrueordie]

Isnt democracy a government. Democracy is a government of the poeple...

[Livetrueordie]

Arnt there different types of anarchy, Social and individualist. Id say social is similar to Communist but i dont think social anarchy is really an anarchy at all.

[amusing foibles]

There are "different kinds" of Anarchism, just like there are "different kinds" of Communism- but in the end, they all (except maybe Anarcho-capitalism, but they're not real anarchists :P) want the same thing- a stateless, classless society free of coercion.

This is, historically, what Anarchism is, and is what people mean when they say it here.

[Forward Union]

Isnt democracy a government. Democracy is a government of the poeple...


No, that's Representative Democracy (where people choose their government) . Direct Democracy isn't a hierarchy, its in a way, a lowerachy, there is no government to rule people, the people rule themselves..

Im Anarcho-Communist so im going to say that the two ideologies are fundamentally the same, but not entirly. I support the intergration of both, as they do not ideologically oppose each other.


There are "different kinds" of Anarchism

Even, Anarcho-Fascism :P

[Livetrueordie]

Originally posted by Anarcho [email protected] 4 2005, 08:47 PM

Isnt democracy a government. Democracy is a government of the poeple...


No, that's Representative Democracy (where people choose their government) . Direct Democracy isn't a hierarchy, its in a way, a lowerachy, there is no government to rule people, the people rule themselves..
I meant Direct Democracy, which i still democracy... Which is still government

[Freidenker]

I mean absolutely no offense by this:

But I think any self-respecting anarchist would refer to their ideology as "anarchism." I know some anarchists, who hate using "anarchy" to label their ideology. They believe it's disrespectful. (To the induvidual using it. Sort of like, Don't belittle yourself.)

Although I could be wrong. Just stating this from what I've seen. :)

[Guest1]

No, government is an institution that involves hierarchy, and governs over people.

Anarchism uses direct democracy, which is the idea that the people should govern themselves. Without representatives, without rulers. Anarchism also operates on the idea that people's participation in decisions should be proportional to their participation in their implementation and/or how much they are effected by them.

So factory workers in a specific factory, should vote on things pertaining only to them. People in a specific collective should vote together on what to do about their public transportation system. Delegates from all the collectives in a specific region should vote together (according to how their collectives have already voted) on how to respond to the natural disaster coming up. Etc...

And Freidenker is correct, Anarchy has some derogatory connotations, and Anarchism has fewer.

[Livetrueordie]

so ur saying anarchy is not a lack of government... So what is a lack of government called???

[RedLenin]

Uhh... Lack of government? Anarchism (that does sound better) is the absense of heirarchy and authority.

[Guest1]

Urr... did you just miss my entire post?

If you define government as seperate from the state, define it just as a system, organized society, then yes, Anarchism has government.

But that would be ignoring the historical significance of that institution. Government governs over people. It is seperate from people, it is based at best on "representation", and at worst, all out subjugation. It is intrinsically tied up with the state, as it requires classes and the monopoly on violence to exist.

Anarchism has governance. But because people govern themselves, there is no "government".

[RedStarOverChina]

The point is, we both strive towards the same goal---the overthrowing of oppressors. Thus we should settle our differences and work together.


In Germany in the early 1930s, the communists and socialist fought each other viciously while the Nazis takes advantage of it. Doesnt that teach us a lesson? Us fighters for the people HAVE to make peace with eachother, especially when the world is faced with threats of Imperialism and oppression.

[amusing foibles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:29 AM
The point is, we both strive towards the same goal---the overthrowing of oppressors. Thus we should settle our differences and work together.


In Germany in the early 1930s, the communists and socialist fought each other viciously while the Nazis takes advantage of it. Doesnt that teach us a lesson? Us fighters for the people HAVE to make peace with eachother, especially when the world is faced with threats of Imperialism and oppression.
I don't think this is about fighting with each other, I think its just understanding our different ideologies.