Socialist and Communist Ideologue Movement

[rightsaidtom]

Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky's writings (and often little more), this movement rarely acknowledges the dismal failures of the communist and socialist philosophies when instituted in practice. Often claiming "True communism has never really been instituted" and insisting that if it were, it would work, the ideologue movement often follows utopian dreams rather than recognizing the flaws of reality. Numerous ideologue web sites promising a better society while claiming to sympathize with the workers in an effort to make everything fair and just have sprung up recently with links to this movement. This ideologue movement is often too deluded to realize flaws exist in the socialist and communist theory and therefore it speaks of a utopia physically unattainable due to inherent flaws and simple impossibility. This highly dogmatic ideologue movement often propagandizes communism and socialism with the writings of Upton Sinclair, John Steinbeck, and Leon Trotsky while trying to force this type of thought on others.

[Sabocat]

Replying to Capitalist and Neo-Conservative Ideologue Movement

Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Rand, Mises, and Keynes' writings (and often little more), this movement rarely acknowledges the dismal failures of capitalism and neo conservative philosophies when instituted in practice. Often claiming "True Laissez-Faire capitalism has never really been instituted" and insisting that if it were, it would work, the ideologue movement often follows utopian dreams rather than recognizing the flaws of reality. Numerous ideologue web sites promising a better society while claiming to sympathize with the workers in an effort to make everything fair and just have sprung up recently with links to this movement. This ideologue movement is often too deluded to realize flaws exist in the neo-conservative and capitalist economic theory and therefore it speaks of a utopia physically unattainable due to inherent flaws and simple impossibility. This highly dogmatic ideologue movement often propagandizes capitalism and neo conservatism with the writings of Bill O'Rielly, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh while trying to force this type of thought on others.

[rightsaidtom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 06:01 PM
Replying to Capitalist and Neo-Conservative Ideologue Movement

Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Rand, Mises, and Keynes' writings (and often little more), this movement rarely acknowledges the dismal failures of capitalism and neo conservative philosophies when instituted in practice. Often claiming "True Laissez-Faire capitalism has never really been instituted" and insisting that if it were, it would work, the ideologue movement often follows utopian dreams rather than recognizing the flaws of reality. Numerous ideologue web sites promising a better society while claiming to sympathize with the workers in an effort to make everything fair and just have sprung up recently with links to this movement. This ideologue movement is often too deluded to realize flaws exist in the neo-conservative and capitalist economic theory and therefore it speaks of a utopia physically unattainable due to inherent flaws and simple impossibility. This highly dogmatic ideologue movement often propagandizes capitalism and neo conservatism with the writings of Bill O'Rielly, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh while trying to force this type of thought on others.

Typically comprised of those who have extensively studied Rand, Mises, and Keynes' writings (and often little more), this movement rarely acknowledges the dismal failures of capitalism and neo conservative philosophies when instituted in practice.

Nope, I do acknowledge the failures of capitalism, it’s just that the failures of capitalism don't include gulags and state sponsored starving. Instead our failures include not being able to afford the XXL hot tub.


Often claiming "True Laissez-Faire capitalism has never really been instituted" and insisting that if it were, it would work, the ideologue movement often follows utopian dreams rather than recognizing the flaws of reality.

Sorry, we're not for complete Laissez-Faire. No capitalist has ever claimed we could form a utopian society; that’s your deal bud.



This ideologue movement is often too deluded to realize flaws exist in the neo-conservative and capitalist economic theory and therefore it speaks of a utopia physically unattainable due to inherent flaws and simple impossibility. This highly dogmatic ideologue movement often propagandizes capitalism and neo conservatism with the writings of Bill O'Rielly, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh while trying to force this type of thought on others.
I'm libertarian (mostly), not neo-con. Again, your attempt at witty retort has failed with the utopian part of my original post; again the utopia thing is your deal.

Bill O'Rielly-nope
Ann Coulter-nope
Limbaugh-occasionally :D

[Sabocat]

Nope, I do acknowledge the failures of capitalism, it’s just that the failures of capitalism don't include gulags and state sponsored starving. Instead our failures include not being able to afford the XXL hot tub.

Oh I disagree... capitalism does have gulags.


On December 31, 2003, there were 2,085,331 people in U.S. prisons and jails. That's a rise of 2.6% during the 12 previous months. Federal prisons are growing almost 5 times faster than state prison populations.

Out of that somewhat dated figure, how many of those do you think are able to consider themselves wealthy?

This guy sure looks like he has problems other than not being able to afford the XXL hot tub.

[Sirion]

"Nope, I do acknowledge the failures of capitalism, it’s just that the failures of capitalism don't include gulags and state sponsored starving. Instead our failures include not being able to afford the XXL hot tub."

Once again, the capitalists fail to see the world outside their own bathroom, and is not afraid to admit it! :P

1. The Soviet Union was not communist. China was not communist etc. None of those nations could even create a socialist state, because the capitalist economy wasn't well enough developed.

2. Starvation may not be state sponsored, but 30000 children die of diseases related to starvation EVERY day, while mountains of crop is burned in the USA because it is not profitable to sell it. Not state sponsored starving, but indirect homicide.

By trying to use flaws in a system we do not support (stalinism), you not only proove your ignorance on that specific field, but also of capitalist economy and living conditions outside your own neightbourhood.

[Raisa]

Stop talking about " they claim communism never existed"

It never has!
You would know that if you knew what the hell communism was, but you dont....

Which makes me wonder, how are you so sure you like capitalism, if you dont even know what communism is?

[rightsaidtom]

First off the XXL hot tub quote was a joke, I know there are homeless people/starving children in the U.S. but how many of those homeless people/parents of the children are drunks and drug addicts? Answer: most. The point is most of the homelessness in this country is preventable. Don’t get addicted to heroine and you won't spend every dime you get on it. And no, it isn't the children’s fault that they don't have any food to eat' however it's the parents fault for buying the rock (we can thank Cuba for that) instead of the bread.

Secondly, Our prisons are full because of the simple fact that we don't want thieves, pedophiles, murderers, and drug dealers living in our neighborhoods...I'm so sorry. Perhaps legalizing some drugs (pot ect. ect.) will lower the amount of drug addicts and dealers in jail but until then they’ll be at the same capacity as they are now. Plus comparing our jails to the gulags is ridiculous. Our jails would be considered a vacation in most parts of the world; access to gyms, TV, 3 meals in a day, counseling, musical equipment, and intramural sports doesn’t sound very bad to me.


By the way, we really get a kick out of the "communism has never existed" deal you guys have going. Keep it up.

[Raisa]

Communism never existed.

Why do you think it has?

Or do you want to believe it because youre lazy and dont want to re evaluate your thinking !

[rightsaidtom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 07:09 PM
Communism never existed.

Why do you think it has?

Or do you want to believe it because youre lazy and dont want to be brainwashed!
fixed

[Sirion]

Who said we were talking about the USA? Once again, another proof that capitalists usually are unable to see the world outside their own bathroom! :-P

Solving the problems in USA will not make matters much, if any, better in the rest of the world. In fact, from a american point of view, it might not be desireable, because there are no way the current standard of living can be upheld without acess to cheap labour, non-existing pollution control, illegalizing of labour unions (and you claim Chine is communist?) etc. in the third world. Scary indeed...

[Sirion]

rightsaidtom: Just now, you made your own title here on the board: Voluntary for brainwashing (my apologies if there are any typos. Not sure if I got voluntary right)

[Sabocat]

And no, it isn't the children’s fault that they don't have any food to eat' however it's the parents fault for buying the rock (we can thank Cuba for that) instead of the bread.

If you're going to make outrageous baseless arguments, you should at least check your facts more carefully Mr. Limbaugh. It was really quite easy. There was a little website put out by the Department of Justice you might have checked.

Curiously, they claim that there just isn't any real drug trafficing going on from Cuba to the U.S.

Apparently, the DOJ is also part of the Communist Conspiracy.


http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/03014/03014.html#cuba

[Raisa]

Originally posted by rightsaidtom+Feb 3 2005, 07:10 PM--> (rightsaidtom @ Feb 3 2005, 07:10 PM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 07:09 PM
Communism never existed.

Why do you think it has?

Or do you want to believe it because youre lazy and dont want to be brainwashed!
fixed [/b]
You still never respected my question

If you dont know what something is, and you want to have a real opinion, you better learn what the hell it is before you open up your mouth and want to debate about it.

[encephalon]

nonono.. the right is right even when the right is dead fucking wrong.

[rightsaidtom]

Originally posted by Raisa+Feb 3 2005, 07:30 PM--> (Raisa @ Feb 3 2005, 07:30 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 07:10 PM

[email protected] 3 2005, 07:09 PM
Communism never existed.

Why do you think it has?

Or do you want to believe it because youre lazy and dont want to be brainwashed!
fixed
You still never respected my question

If you dont know what something is, and you want to have a real opinion, you better learn what the hell it is before you open up your mouth and want to debate about it. [/b]
If you're wondering if I’ve ever read the Communist Manifesto the answer is yes.
Don't assume too much ickle commie "revolutionary".

[Lee Harvey Oswald]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 07:09 PM
Communism never existed.

Why do you think it has?

Or do you want to believe it because youre lazy and dont want to re evaluate your thinking !
So what does Cuba practice, economically?

[rightsaidtom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 07:26 PM

And no, it isn't the children’s fault that they don't have any food to eat' however it's the parents fault for buying the rock (we can thank Cuba for that) instead of the bread.

If you're going to make outrageous baseless arguments, you should at least check your facts more carefully Mr. Limbaugh. It was really quite easy. There was a little website put out by the Department of Justice you might have checked.

Curiously, they claim that there just isn't any real drug trafficing going on from Cuba to the U.S.

Apparently, the DOJ is also part of the Communist Conspiracy.


http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/03014/03014.html#cuba
It was making fun of the Cuban stereotyp.

I'll be sure to point out jokes to you in the future.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by Lee Harvey [email protected] 3 2005, 03:58 PM
So what does Cuba practice, economically?
They're not communist.
Communism is classless and stateless. This has never occured.
Cuba is arguably socialist.

[NovelGentry]

Cuba is a form of state capitalism, with some accepted instances of unregulated capitalism. The state capitalism uses what little it can gain (due to embargo, but also do to the previously underdeveloped means of production in Cuba) to ration necessities. What people are paid above and beyond that (maximized at 800 Cuban Dollars *not sure what they're called* a month) allows them to afford whatever luxuries they so choose. The needs, instituted by their welfare state come first. Production itself cannot be considered socialized, although it does have some socialized aspects, but lacks the overall control of the means of production in the hands of the workers, and instead keeps it in the hands of a state, who is increasingly alienated from those workers as they only have partial say in determining that state's leadership.

[encephalon]

I was going to reply capitalism, but NovelGentry put it much more eloquently than I would have.



If you're wondering if I’ve ever read the Communist Manifesto the answer is yes.
Don't assume too much ickle commie "revolutionary".


You've read the manifesto? Whew.. and here I was thinking you were one of those people that reads one short document and then thinks they know everything about the subject..

The Marxist Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org)

have fun.