War On Terrorism - You people are against it. What do you th

[Ho Chi Minh]

From reading past posts I have learned that most of you are against the War on terrorism. What do you think the U.S. should do in response to 9-11? I'm confused why you people are against putting a end to the most dangerous religious-fascist terrorist group in the world.

[Xvall]

We're not against putting a fascist group out. You have to look at what they're doing. They are blowing this out of proportion. Not only are they bombing innocent civilians to achieve their goals, but they are just using the word 'terrorist' to label countries they dislike, such as North Korea. They just want the middle east for oil. They don't care about Al Quieda and the Taliban. They were the ones who funded them in the first place.

[Dhul Fiqar]

As for what the United States should do, the phrase "go fuck themselves" comes to mind, but I guess that's not terribly constructive.

As for the War Against Isla... eh... Terror, or whatever. I think it singles out ethnic and religious groups to a totally unacceptable degree. How would the US react if most young jews in some Muslim country were being detained and asked for information, held without charges and generally have their rights violated? They'd raise a royal shitstorm, because the darkie muslim weirdos are the bad guys and everyone else is a potential collaborator.

--- G. Raven

[j]

You also need to understand motivations here. If Osama bin Laden and Al Quaeda plotted and carried out the 9/11 terrorist attacks, why would they do that? The answer is not as simple as "because they hate our freedoms." And it is not as simple as they hate american policy in the middle east.

Well, Osama himself does hate american policy in the middle east. But he is also pissed that american troops are in saudi arabia--his home country and the holiest of lands to muslims. If the US were to be attacked then they would surely retailiate. These attacks by the US would enrage the people of the middle east. This would then drive them to adopt stricter, more facist rule. The US could be demonized. Hopefully, the people under strict, facist rule would mobilize and drive the US out of saudi arabia (and perhaps israel--but I don't think Osama much cares about israel).

Osama is not out to rule the world. If he can get the people of the middle-east to believe in the evil of US and accept his brand of facism, then he can mobilize the people to attack and finally win back saudi arabia. Osama could probably care less if the US exists--in fact, I'm sure he might like it to sell oil to. He just wants them OUT of saudi arabia.

Another theory goes like this:

The attack on 9/11 was done by the US government itself. It is a well known fact that the majority of americans are "non-interventionists" they prefer to stay out of the world's business. Before Pearl Harbor in WWII, 80% of americans were against getting into the war. It is rumored that the US could have stopped pearl harbor but wanted to enter the war anyway. Now, could the US strike the middle east, unprovoked and have the people and its allies in support? Probably not. So enter 9/11--another "pearl harbor." Now people are waving flags and yelling "get the rag-heads!!!" We know have made an enemy that we can all hate with our propaganda. Because the US is a Corporate Dictatorship that is governed by the almighty dollar then the news will only report in support of the war. (You'll never see Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, or Noam Chomsky debating on CNN). So we now have a right to bomb the hell out of afganistan and the rest of the middle east, ensuring our right to oil. There have been plans of a pipeline running from afganistan to the indian ocean--perfect for the US.

That is why I am against the war. It is killing civilians--women and children. It is being done in the name of $$$$. It is corporate imperialism. It is evil.

j

[Radikkal Rebel]

im not a real bg amrica fan, i m actually quite anti america but as much as i hate america i hate war and death even more. therehas to be a peaceful solution but if not some deaths may have to occur for the better of the people as a whole. i beleive its more important to focus on the peole as a community rather tan certain individuals" though u may die today la resistance lives on"-south park

[j]

"but if not some deaths may have to occur for the better of the people as a whole"-radical rebel

that is the same logic that people who fly airlines into buildings think. That is the logic that Hitler used.

What are "some deaths." If another country bombed the US as the US bombs Afghanistan we would be outraged. But you see, "they" want us to believe that one arab is not equal to one american. Can you imagine a wedding in the US getting bombed??!!!

For evil like what happened on 9/11 to be eradicated, we can not blindly bomb a nation. We can merely gather evidence and try that person in a world court. Violence begets violence. It is a cycle. It won't end. Killing innocents kills more innocents. The only war that is just is one fought among willing soldiers.

j

[MJM]

I'm still confused, how many Afghanis were on those planes? None wasn't it?
I'm with Dhul Fiqar- they can go fuck themselves.

[ComradeJunichi]

War on Terror? If they keep going on with it and try to erradicate all TERROR they'll eradicate themselves. Which I think is a good thing.
The 9/11 attacks are nothing compared to all the murders that the United States has committed. Plus, Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda were funded by the US, just a little terrorist attacking the daddy terrorist. "Family Matters". Now 'Big Daddy' spanks little terrorist, and steals his oil??? heh...

[Sasafrás]

Why do you refer to the people here as "you people," Ho? (I didn't mean "Ho" in a bad way, if that's what you think)

Yeah, I agree with Drake. There is absolutely nothing wrong with eradicating a right-wing, religious fundamentalist group but there is something wrong with labeling an entire religious or ethnic group and in turn, attempting to eradicate the people who belong to it. It’s getting ridiculous and they’re going bananas, killing civilians (blowing the daylights out of what should have been a peaceful wedding party), and then creating bullshit excuses. Like Dhul said, it has become a sort of war on Islam. Everyone looks the same; why not just kill ‘em all? Insanity.

That was like a rant. Sorry.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Like so many of my comrades have already explained, there are several reasons why one should oppose the current "war on terrorism."

1. The US government is using the atrocities of 9/11 as an excuse to pursue their personal agendas against its perpetual enemies such as Iran, North Korea, Cuba and many more. One can note that non of these countries have any links whatsoever to the activities of Al Qaeda Network nor have they ever attempted to terrorise US citizens. On the contrary, countries such as Cuba, Nicaragua and Iran have been on the recieving end of american hostility for several decades for simply refusing to exploit their own people for the benefit of corporate america.

2. I believe that those who committed the atrocities of 9/11 should be tried in court of justice and given the opportunity to defend themselves just as any criminal (Timothy McVeigh comes to mind) would in the United States. However, no one even dared to raise this option within the government, instead they opted for the gung ho method of the summary execution of those "suspects" in Afghanistan as well as any poor civilians whop happen to live anywhere within a 500 miles radius of those suspects. As it stands, the number of those killed in the twin towers is less than 3,000. The number of civilians killed in Afghanistan alone stands at over 5,000.

3. The simple US analogy of evil does wishing to destroy the civilised west is nothing but utter nonsense. I do not deny that there are many people around the world who are angry and resentful towards america, but nor can I claim that they carry these feeling unjustfiably. Many people such as the Palestinians, Nicaraguans, and Cubans have been first hand victims of the short sighted american foreign policy of 'self-benefit'. Thus, it is more than undserstandable that many amongst those oppressed people do not have a picture of George W. Bush at home nor do they pray for the well-being of the civilised American government everynight before going to bed.

[Xvall]

In addition Ho Chi Mihn. You like Vietnam, don't you? Well thanks the the 'War on Terrorism', it might be included on the next 'axis of evil'.

[bluerev002]

I totally agree with j on the US planning the whole thing.
infact i just posted a reply on that same thing on another article. when the US is at war the president has the power to do any thing he wants, he can change the laws, take all the money he says he needs, and other stuff.

The rumor that Bush himself planned the 9/11 has a very high possibility of being true. he had people helping him doing it. bush wrote letters to each of them, the people who helped him that is. in those letters it said everything.
when it was all over bush sent for the people (that he gave the letters to) to be killed. the man that was in france found out that he was being targeted he fled to canada were he gave the letter to the court and turned himself in.
now the people of the US are running around supporting bush, giving him their tax money and blindingly surving him.

As for bin laden. if it was him who did that then i like it. US not getting their troops off his peoples land, he fought for what he thought was right. he fought for his freedom to live his life american free. he is a classic example of the wimp hitting the bully, a revolution of a little guy going against he big guys rules.
Bin laden fights for his right, therefor bin laden is my hero. "fuck bush! fuck the US!"

[elCHEvive]

I do not agree with the theory that Bush planned it himself, but that it was all bin laden. But as previous posted messages say, i give good compliments to Osama! way to wake up america! they needed it. Its strange how we can randomly bomb Iraq, remember? there were like 2 times [at least] when we just started bombing them with no real reason! and thats ok? the people support the US on that. but when someone attacks us, OH MY GOD! STOP! WHO WOULD DO SUCH A HORRIBLE THING. c'mon americans, dont be ignorant [like theyd listen. isnt ignorance an original american quality?]. you think its ok for US to kills thousands of innocent civilians with barely a legitimate reason? but its NOT okay for someone who has a legit reason to kill civilians? im not saying killing people is right, im all for peace, but if i had to choose it makes so much more sense to say the person with the excuse, is more excusable! Th US has always meddled in other countries business, and although the citizens of the US believe we are just being helpful world police, we only care about ourselves. Why did we defend a random country like Kuwait [no offense to Kuwait] from Iraq? to DEFEND AN INNOCENT COUNTRY MY ASS! the US recieves TONS of oil from there. With iraq in control we wouldnt recieve our oil! way to think of yourself US. The american people need to wake up and see how awful the government is. if only the news would tell us what really is happening, not just what the gov't wants its peopel to see!

HASTA LA MUERTE POR LA LIBERTAD!

[bluerev002]

im new and i accidentally posted three of the same so this is why im writing this. i am editing my mistake.........^_^()

(Edited by bluerev002 at 1:50 am on July 23, 2002)

[bluerev002]

man im dumb!

(Edited by bluerev002 at 1:48 am on July 23, 2002)

[bluerev002]

you are right. the US needed to wake up. everyone needs to wake up and see things the way they are not the way they want to see them. we live in a country that is supposibly free. is freedom is not knowing what our goverment is doing? is freedom is not being able to say what we want because we are scared of the goverment will do to us. thats not free, the american people need to wake up! the mexicans need to wake up! every body wake up! see what people, not just the goverment, are doing to you! they are robing you blind, taking your lives, your land! not everybody is good in the world and they are not (we do this all the time) as good or bad as we make them seem! they are as bad as they are hands down!
and there can be someone so evil that he would turn hid back on his country to be popular. someone who would be so evil as to kill inocent civilians wether they are in his country or not. this man does crap to get money.
this man has done evil things to this world so fast that
some are bareley beggining to unfold the truth just now! while some have always known and done something about it. this evil man is the president of the US, the president of mexico and all the other men who have the power to change a nation for the good and do it for the bad.
zapata, che and all the others are great people. they will never die, they will live in us wether we know their names or not! and they will come out when we can take no more and rebel. Revoution is near.............................
.......cant you hear? (^_^() heh heh dumb quote)

[bluerev002]

bin laden is one of my heroes and i think im not alone in saying that.

[Xvall]

WTF? He's not your hero. In case you didn't know. Bin Laden is a SEXIST. In addition, he HATES Socialists and Communists!

[stick person]

The problem is the definition of terror. To state that the US will eradicate terror is as much a cover for capitalist aggression as the earlier statement, in 1917, that the US would eradicate war.

War, by its very nature, includes terror. An act of violence is no less terrifying for being perpetrated by uniformed agents of a recognized state. The real goal of the "war on terror" is to eliminate the recourse of sub-state groups to military action in pursuit of their specific goals. To get the people to accept the "necessity" of disarmament, it was first necessary to find a target that is so loathesome that few on the left can come up with a good personal defense. As a CIA toy, a beneficiary of gender and class privilege, an antagonist of liberty and democracy, bin Laden is an ideal target.

However, you may have noticed that while bin Laden is the target, the people being hit have nothing to do with him. In the Middle East and south Asia, they are collateral damage in the hot war on "terror." The clear message being sent is that the global power brokers have no qualms about employing the full extent of their might against even their weakest enemies, and that everyone else should be extremely careful not to get their attention lest bad things start to happen to them too.

[Fires of History]

Ho Chi Minh,

It's a good question, and I think everyone here has said it all.

But, in a tagline, why?

Because when McVeigh bombed the government they didn't declare war on Michigan.

This 'war on terror' is opportunism at its worst. To root out the terrorists they want to kill so desperately, they have to sack an entire country and convert it into a puppet American government.

Here's the first printing of the New Afghan Dollar, lol...
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/AdNewAfghanMoney.jpg

[bluerev002]

over look the fact that bin laden is sexist and all that. he still did something that most of us would never even dare think of. he hit the most powerful country in the world. all to protect his right, his home his country. i like that because it is something that anyone can do but not everyone can dare. i hate people that are sexist and as for him hating socialist and communist, well duh he hates this whole country, he was raised in a place were he was taught to hate these things. im sure if you and i were born there we would be just the same. so blame his parents. i really admire what he did

[ILL EAGLE]

This war is a joke. No body has any proof that Osma had any thing to do with the 11th. This war hungry Pres is just looking for some one to take it out on. I understand why Al Quida didnt give him up. If he was inocent then why should they give him up to be killed. I wouldn't have given him up either. This is such a laughable affair, the guys who did it are out some where havin a ball while they look for some one else...........and why the FUCK is he goin after Saddam what the FUCK did he do to us for us to want to go to war I say what the FUCK

[bluerev002]

oil oil oil. thats what this war is mainly about really, the president is using bin laden as an excuse to bombard the middle east. the US has put a new president in afganistan or pakistan, not sure which, supposibly to make the place better. but they really did it cuz they made a deal. "we make you president and you give us oil" simple as that. and as for you not beliving it was bin laden, i think your right about that, and the person laughing and having a ball is bush. thats what i think anyways.

[Xvall]

Quote: from bluerev002 on 4:29 am on July 23, 2002
over look the fact that bin laden is sexist and all that. he still did something that most of us would never even dare think of. he hit the most powerful country in the world. all to protect his right, his home his country. i like that because it is something that anyone can do but not everyone can dare. i hate people that are sexist and as for him hating socialist and communist, well duh he hates this whole country, he was raised in a place were he was taught to hate these things. im sure if you and i were born there we would be just the same. so blame his parents. i really admire what he did


No! No! You still don't get it! What kind of leftist are you!? Despite popular belief he did NOT kill a bunch of Capitalists, but instead destroyed an area where 90% of the people are the proletariot! Yes, I know he was raised in a screwed up country but he is ALSO a capitalist. He owns his own businesses and doesn't care for the common person!

[bluerev002]

wow, i really didnt think of that. i guess he really doenst care for the common people does he?
sexist, communist, you make all the right points. i just like what he did, bombing us defending the right of his people. but thats it. i guess if you cancel the positive from the negatives there are more negatives left over.

[bluerev002]

AND I think i went too far saying hes my heroe,

[Pepo]

First of all I want to thanks the person that started this thema.
I will not hide that in fact I'm an Anti-Americanism, yes I am... and why? Why is the question that the American people and politicians should put to them selfs. Why there is so many Anti-Americanism in the World? Why this feeling is growing?
The problem of the War against terrorism and the American problem is that people ever there insist in not looking at themselfs, people don't think about why such thing as the 09.11 happens to America. From where cames all that American hate?

Very simple , look at the American politics, Egocentric and absolut Imperialist. Years ago U.S. use to support Iraq in the war against Iran. Today Iraq is consider an enemy. The same happen in Afganistan when the people there were fighting the Russians and today....??
The problem is that U.S. change there policy according only to their own interest and nothing else. Where is the moral so proclamed by all the American presidents. How can I have respect for a country that behaves in such way. How can I like the people of a country that support this kind of politic?

You also mention the religious fanatism. Well, explain me about that because I really don't understand. Everytime I listen Presindent Bush speeking he talks about Good.
"Good Bless America", in the Dollar is printed "Good Bless America"... Can you explain me that? Is that No fanatism? Where is the difference?

I believe that if someone is making bad is creating a negative energy that sooner or later will strike back direct in the source of that negative energy. It's clear to me that U.S. will suffer much more if people overthere keep behaving the way they do.
I would be happy to see other actitude from the U.S. but unfortunately they insist in being stupid and to blame the world for what happen...

Well, did you get the picture?

[Xvall]

Ya, I wouldn't have really cared as much if he had attacked some sort of military target, or assasinated the president, or something like that.