Nazi Socialism?

[brotherinexile]

delete post

[Stancel]

Nazis were right-wing fascists. NOT socialists. Hope that clears it up for ya.

[American_Trotskyist]

Yes the National "Socialists" claimed that to gain support from the moblized class, the proletariate, they used this because no one considered themselves to be supporters of capitalism in Germany after the revolution, not even the capitalist themselves. Trotsky wrote a very good piece on fascism, here is the link to it,
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/wo...44/1944-fas.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm)
I hope this helps you.

[October Revolution]

Clearly an evil guise to rally support. Damn Fascists

I doubt anyone will call you a Nazi if you say you are socialist, generally not that many people know what Nazi stands for so your safe. Anyway just tell them the differnce unless they've made up their mind im sure you could persuade them.

[FeArANDLoAtHiNg]

I have had this problem with ignorant people, claiming Hitler as a leftist because of the "Socialist" name.-

But those are the type of people you ignore.

[Lauren]

Yeah not many people know what Nazi stands for and the ones that do wont think you're a nazi.

[Iepilei]

The Nazi's gained the support eventually by passing them off as a party for the people. Instead of the people of Germany standing up for themselves, they just sorta fell under Hitler's spell.

He brought good things for Germany; at very gruesome costs.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

So, how about we all call ourselves Conservatives, but keep advocating the overthrow of capital and bourgeoisie governments?
It'll be snazzy . . .

The Nazis rounded up and imprisoned or killed the German left (socialists, communists, anarchists, trade unionists, etc.), and instituted a disturbing corporatism, or "crony capitalism". Pointing this out should be enough to convince people that the label is deceiving.

[Iso-Socialist]

Well economically Nazi's (Real nazis, not rednecks pretending to be german) are socialists, Hitler ran a socialist economy as socialism is a economic Ideal... Not a political. Mainly but socialism (if you ever read marx) has 'some' philosophy and political attributes to it.

Then comes the "nationalism" of Nazism. Nationalism is the political part of nazism: Defenition - : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism] 2: the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other [ant: multiculturalism, internationalism] 3: the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination 4: the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals.

Socialism - Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Socialism is basicly the idea of the state (what ever the current government might be) controls all or most of the contries wealth, then divides it amoung the population equally. Socialism might even allow *some* forms of privatisation in the economy.

[monkeydust]

I am a Soclialist, but I was lookin on the internet and found put that Nazis call themselves National Socialists. WTF?! Now I'm concered if I tell people I'm a Socialist, they will think that I am a Nazi. Or am I mistaken? Please help me clear this up.

No, the Nazis were not socialists. If anyone calls you, for being a Socialist, a Nazi, they are wrong.

There's a number of reasons why the Nazi party's proper name was, and remained, the "National Socialist German Workers' Party":

1.The name was actually assumed before Hitler was the central definitive power within the party (1921?). Some people in the party at this time genuinely were socialists. The name wasn't simply Hitler's invention.

2. Changing the name after this may well have fractured the party. Earlier on, at least - certainly before 1934 - there were some genuine, if misguided, socialists or pseudo-socialists within the party.

3.The name had rhetorical appeal. Declaring the party "Socialist" allowed Hitler to better gain the support of German workers. Some workers came to support the Nazi party because they genuinely believed it would pursue socialist policies. They were wrong. The name helped in getting the party a broad base of support.

4. Some aspects of Nazism ostensibly supported "Socialism" - but only by twisting the definition of socialism itself beyond the traditional use of the term. For example, some Nazis would have argued that censoring textbooks and making membership of Nazi youth organizations compulsory might have increased the sense of "community" within the Reich. Their definition of Socialism bears no relation to Marxist Socialism whatever.

[LSD]

Socialism - Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Socialism is basicly the idea of the state (what ever the current government might be) controls all or most of the contries wealth, then divides it amoung the population equally. Socialism might even allow *some* forms of privatisation in the economy.

Yes an no, it gets a little more complex than that, but I'll accept that as a loose defition for now.


Well economically Nazi's (Real nazis, not rednecks pretending to be german) are socialists, Hitler ran a socialist economy as socialism is a economic Ideal...

No... he didn't.

The myth of a socialist "National Socialism" is just that.

I suggest you read the following:

German Corporate Profits: 1926-1938, by Maxine Yaple Sweezy, The Quarterly Journal of Economics © 1940 The MIT Press

Hitler's War and the German Economy: A Reinterpretation, R. J. Overy
The Economic History Review New Series, Vol. 35, No. 2

Not Politicians but Sound Businessmen: Norton Company and the Third Reich,
Charles Cheape The Business History Review, Vol. 62, No. 3

Big Business and Private Property Under the Nazis, Arthur Schweitzer
The Journal of Business of the University of Chicago, Vol. 19, No. 2

Nazi Germany was an economic marvel, and an astonishing financial turnaround, but it was not socialist.

[LSD]

There's a number of reasons why the Nazi party's proper name was, and remained, the "National Socialist German Workers' Party":

True.


1.The name was actually assumed before Hitler was the central definitive power within the party (1921?). Some people in the party at this time genuinely were socialists. The name wasn't simply Hitler's invention.

False.

Very false, in fact.

The name of the party that Drexler (and others) founded was the DAP, or "German Worker's Party".

The Idea was to contain both nationalistic "German" and socialistic "Workers" elements.

But the idea to actually say "National Socialist" was Hitler's himself. It was he who renamed the party to the NSDAP and it was he who concieved of the name.


2. Changing the name after this may well have fractured the party. Earlier on, at least - certainly before 1934 - there were some genuine, if misguided, socialists or pseudo-socialists within the party.

False.

See above.

The name of the party was in fact changed ... to "National Socialist.


3.The name had rhetorical appeal. Declaring the party "Socialist" allowed Hitler to better gain the support of German workers. Some workers came to support the Nazi party because they genuinely believed it would pursue socialist policies. They were wrong. The name helped in getting the party a broad base of support.

True.

Absolutely correct.

This was the genius of Hitler's idea. He managed to appeal to every base, even condradicting ones!


4. Some aspects of Nazism ostensibly supported "Socialism" - but only by twisting the definition of socialism itself beyond the traditional use of the term. For example, some Nazis would have argued that censoring textbooks and making membership of Nazi youth organizations compulsory might have increased the sense of "community" within the Reich. Their definition of Socialism bears no relation to Marxist Socialism whatever.

True and false.

Hitler's "Folk comrade" idea certainly had communalistic overtones, but nothing in his economic policies did.

[Domingo]

Originally posted by October [email protected] 9 2005, 09:47 PM

I doubt anyone will call you a Nazi if you say you are socialist, generally not that many people know what Nazi stands for so your safe. Anyway just tell them the differnce unless they've made up their mind im sure you could persuade them.
No one in America would probably understand the complex system and differences. I find no reason to fear the ignorant.

[monkeydust]

LSD

Forgive my pedanticism, but......


False.

Very false, in fact.

The name of the party that Drexler (and others) founded was the DAP, or "German Worker's Party".

The Idea was to contain both nationalistic "German" and socialistic "Workers" elements.

But the idea to actually say "National Socialist" was Hitler's himself. It was he who renamed the party to the NSDAP and it was he who concieved of the name.


I stand by my statement.

To my knowledge the name was changed in February 1920; Hitler only assumed leadership in August 1921.

So my statement that that name was assumed before Hitler was the definitive power in the party and that it wasn't simply his invention, remains, I feel, at least partially true.

It's certainly not "very false".


False.

See above.

The name of the party was in fact changed ... to "National Socialist.


Yes, I know that.

I was referring to the fact that the name could have conceivably been changed again after Hitler assumed leadership, or, more plausibly, after the ostensible Socialism of the party had been done away with.

It wasn't, partly, because it wasn't "worth it".


Hitler's "Folk comrade" idea certainly had communalistic overtones, but nothing in his economic policies did.

Agreed.

[LSD]

I stand by my statement.

To my knowledge the name was changed in February 1920; Hitler only assumed leadership in August 1921.

Hitler joined the party as member 555 in 1920.

It was indeed his idea to rename the DAP:

"In April, 1920, Hitler advocated that the party should change its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War. This was reflected in the growth in the German Social Democrat Party (SDP), the largest political party in Germany.
The NSDAP (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERnazi.htm)

"At this early stage, Hitler brought up the idea of renaming the party, and he proposed the name "Social Revolutionary Party" (4). However, Rudolf Jung insisted that the party should follow the pattern of Austria's Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei. As a consequence, the DAP was shortly renamed the NSDAP.
Wikkipedia article on the NSDAP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSDAP)

"The commandant of the Reichswehr, Franz von Epp, his chief of staff, Erst Röhm, and the Munich chief of police, Erst Pöhner, were eager to overthrow the Republic and openly encouraged and protected all effective ultra-nationalist movements in their jurisdictional areas. Hitler's new style of propaganda soon attracted their attention to the party, which sometime in 1920 began to call itself the NSDAP, probably to give greater credibility to the "socialist" content of its propaganda line."
Adolf Hitler Online (http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/docs/nsdap.html)

[Roses in the Hospital]

In 1933 Hitler declared May 1st (World Labour Day) a public holiday, the workers of Germany rejoiced. The next day Trade Unions were absorbed into the DAF and their offices offices occupied by the SS. Effectivly they were outlawed...
The NSDAP were definately not Socialists.
In fact the urban working classes were one of the few areas of society they did not get votes from...

[comradesteele]

hitler was actually the 55th member i heard as the party added a 5 to make thier numbers seem bigger.

[Che1990]

The nazis said they were socialist to gain support then turned into the most right-wing group we've ever seen.

[El_Revolucionario]

They called themselves "national socialists" to try to gain support but then once they had power they turned it into a right-wing fascist dictatorship. same thing happened in italy.

[apathy maybe]

As has been mentioned the socialism that the Nazi Party proposed was nothing like the socialism of equality that is more commonly thought of. Rather it is meant as social. The society mattered, only trouble is that the society did not include gays, Jews, gypsies, and lots of others. It also kept classes (something that true socialism wouldn't do).

While I guess it might be possible to have a democratic socialist society that was racist* I doubt that it would emerge except in some completely wacky circumstances.

* All of the people were the same race, the society was organised along socialist lines, but only for people of that race. No one else would be allowed in the county.