Anti-School [Archive]

The Feral Underclass

2nd February 2005, 14:23

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 03:00 PM
wot kind of stupid bullshit is this
The kind that creates an atmosphere and generation of defiance against forms of domination which are perpetrated by a capitalist system.

i ahte skool but wots the point of droppin out

I don't think this group is saying: "just drop out."

School is an oppressive and conditioning institution which stifles freedom and instils fear and discipline in young people. What they are advocating is that young people take control of their lives and refuse to participate in a place which does this to them.

It is calling on people to change their lives in a way that benefits them and allows their independence to govern their decisions rather than people you neither like nor respect.

if we get good education we maybe able to get high jobs in the system an sway things towards socailism

This doesn't work. You will either become apart of the system or be isolated within it. You cannot achieve socialism this way.

u tellin kids to drop out is basically tellin them to fuck ne chance of them havin a good life

I think telling people to take control of their lives and do what they want is a very positive message. Creating your own space, your own activities and your own education is far more rewarding and is a step in changing the system as a whole.

Life isn't about being successful, it is about being alive.

Anarchist Freedom

2nd February 2005, 15:36

I personally find this a bit fucking ridiculous the whole point of going to school is to go to college now and EXPAND your knowledge. Do you all hate your school because of dumbasses? Do you hate the teachers? I hate my fucking school hell im in the fucking place as I type this but im not dropping out anytime soon. If you drop out your going to be doomed to having to live with a bunch of people you hate forever. But hey dropping out would sure as hell be nice until you had to get a job and provide for yourself.

The Feral Underclass

2nd February 2005, 15:43

Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 2 2005, 04:36 PM
I personally find this a bit fucking ridiculous the whole point of going to school is to go to college now and EXPAND your knowledge. Do you all hate your school because of dumbasses? Do you hate the teachers? I hate my fucking school hell im in the fucking place as I type this but im not dropping out anytime soon. If you drop out your going to be doomed to having to live with a bunch of people you hate forever. But hey dropping out would sure as hell be nice until you had to get a job and provide for yourself.
Read what has been fucking written! If anyone's a dumbass here it's you!

Dyst

2nd February 2005, 15:58

I agree with AT. This is a good experiment. I actually co-made something similar (a norwegian student/school rights group) but it went down because of lack of interest from our side. However, of course I do support a group such as this, at least if it gets alitte big. Good luck.

Cal

3rd February 2005, 01:42

Looks like you did drop out!!

wot kind of stupid bullshit is this sure i ahte skool but wots the point of droppin out its just quitin an if we get good education we maybe able to get high jobs in the system an sway things towards socailism...u tellin kids to drop out is basically tellin them to fuck ne chance of them havin a good life

brainwashing is a strong term, if you've anything about you you can make up your own mind about things.

Lost Avenger

4th February 2005, 01:39

I'm stuck under the "No Child Left Behind" Act right now. I could drop out of school right now and skip all of my senior year of high school, but I am not about to put those past 11 years of work to waste. Also, if I get a good education and continue to college, i could possible get a respectable position that would leave me with more powerful influence.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

4th February 2005, 02:01

Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 2 2005, 04:36 PM
I personally find this a bit fucking ridiculous the whole point of going to school is to go to college now and EXPAND your knowledge. Do you all hate your school because of dumbasses? Do you hate the teachers? I hate my fucking school hell im in the fucking place as I type this but im not dropping out anytime soon. If you drop out your going to be doomed to having to live with a bunch of people you hate forever. But hey dropping out would sure as hell be nice until you had to get a job and provide for yourself.
Explain to me how your post complies with anarcho-syndicalism.

Anarchist Freedom

4th February 2005, 02:42

CHeck bottom post

Anarchist Freedom

4th February 2005, 02:51

I agree with everything they say after further readin the site. But im not dropping out of high school anytime soon.

pockets6794

4th February 2005, 14:28

thank u lost avenger thats wot i sed

The Feral Underclass

4th February 2005, 15:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 03:28 PM
thank u lost avenger thats wot i sed
U isn't a word.

He may have said what you said, but you would still be wrong. Can you read what I wrote and respond to the points please?

redstar2000

5th February 2005, 17:23

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension
I think this project is absolutely fantastic and I commend you all for your defiance.

I could not agree more! The site is exhilarating to read; it breathes rebellion!

I have bookmarked it and will re-post the url whenever school crap comes up on this board.

The last two years I was in high school (at least!) were a total fucking waste of time and energy...in a period when I could have learned far more with a library card and the free time.

And here's something I didn't know at the time: colleges don't give a shit if you've graduated from high school, only have a GED, or just walk in off the street. If you rack up decent numbers on the SATs/College Board tests and have the money to pay the tuition, you're in!

I sat through two years of bullshit because I thought I "had to graduate from high school" in order to get into college.

That was 45 years ago and it still pisses me off!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

RASH chris

6th February 2005, 17:16

I'm a dropout. I haven't looked at the posted site yet, but I will after typing this. From what you have said about it, it seems pretty cool. For everybody who says school is vital to your future-What kind of bullshit hypocrisy is that? You have to stay in school to go to college? (no you don't I was accepted to a local community college w/o ever even taking my SATs after dropping out) And why do you need to go to college? To get a good job? Make lots of money? I thought this was a forum for radical leftists. You can't make changes within the system, if you could it would've already been done. Not to mention the fact that I have learned far more valuable information on my own than I ever did in school.

FatFreeMilk

7th February 2005, 05:09

And here's something I didn't know at the time: colleges don't give a shit if you've graduated from high school, only have a GED, or just walk in off the street. If you rack up decent numbers on the SATs/College Board tests and have the money to pay the tuition, you're in!
That's bullshit RedStar. Admission into good schools depends on a lot of things not just a couple of test scores and pocket full of cash. That would be awesome if it was that easy but it's not.

I'm stuck under the "No Child Left Behind" Act right now. You're stuck? That act seems to be one of the only positive things going for this place.

I could drop out of school right now and skip all of my senior year of high school, but I am not about to put those past 11 years of work to waste. Also, if I get a good education and continue to college, i could possible get a respectable position that would leave me with more powerful influence. I just hope you use your influence for good. Good for you, and hopefully for the rest of the world.

I really don't like the advocation of dropping out of school. Education is one fo the most important things a person could have so to try to get people to voluntarily miss out on that is absurd. People have gone through way too much in the US for a bunch of rebelious wannabe badasses to go and slap them in the face.

People like me have been repeatedly been denied the right to a decent education in the past and for me to have a "fuck that" attitude would be a disgrace.

RASH chris

7th February 2005, 14:04

Fatfree-Your point about "good schools" is far to subjective. What do you mean by "good school"? Sorry, it doesn't matter if I did stay in school, I wasn't going to Harvard anytime. My local community college would've excepted me, before I took my GED or SAT's. I know this because I went there, signed up for classes, and was accepted. I do not attend because I chose not too, felt it was a waste of money. And I consider that school to be plenty good, and if it wasn't after two years there I could've easily gone to a "good school" if I could afford it.

Do you honestly believe no child left behind is good? You must be a fucking idiot. NCLB is dumbing this country down. It's about teaching kids to pass tests, not learn things. I know because I've experienced it, and I've seen a number of outstanding teachers quit before I left because of the bill.

Your point about education is not valid in any way. Just because I quit school doesn't mean I quit learning. I was in high school for 2 and a 1/2 years, didn't learn anything new. Might've been taught new things but I sure as shit don't remember them. Cause school isn't about an education, it's about grades.

Being out of school has given me the opportunity to learn far, far more than I ever did/could in school.

Pawn Power

7th February 2005, 17:40

Great site, wish I found it while I was in high school.
This is one of the few youth rebelion sits that I have read that really makes sense and is productive towards revolution.

The Feral Underclass

7th February 2005, 17:53

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 06:09 AM
I really don't like the advocation of dropping out of school.
I don't see how difficult it is to see the point. The website is very clear, as have I and others in this thread been about this subject.

It isn't about simply "dropping" out of school and giving up education. It is advocating that young people take their education into their own hands by creating different ways to educate themselves and each other, away from the oppressive and stifling institution that school is.

Education is one of the most important things a person could have

The education you receive at school is, generally speaking, irrelevant to you as an individual.

I watched an episode of the Simpson’s last night, the one where Bart swaps his aptitude test results with Martin's and gets sent to "genius" school. In this school the children where allowed to organise and follow their own academic agenda in a way that made them feel they were learning.

In a communist society, education will be about expression and creativity and about doing what you feel is right, why should we not start now!

In fact there are schools called Steiner schools which advocate such teaching methods.

We want our children to be independent, creative, expressive and confident about who they are. Not conformed, processed, inexpressive, submissive and trained to be servents of capitalism.

to try to get people to voluntarily miss out on that is absurd.

No. Denying the alternative to present day school structures is absurd.

People have gone through way too much in the US for a bunch of rebellious wannabe badasses to go and slap them in the face.

I think it's very easy to label these people "badass wannabes" and I think it is extremely patronising and very, very wrong to do so.

The information, theory and advice that is on the website proves that these people are not just wannabes or that they are attempting to look badass.

They are seriously attempting to create a better way for young people to express themselves and learn. It is a massive challenge and they should be commended for it.

Teen_Communist

7th February 2005, 21:44

This is a great thread, I've been looking for something like this for quite a while. As a politically aware 15 year old Anarcho-Communist who often shares his ideas with teachers and not exactly in the most friendly way, this convo and the link give me so much support and material to think about. Thanks :)

redstar2000

8th February 2005, 02:53

It is indeed a great thread.

Stickied! :D

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FatFreeMilk

9th February 2005, 05:54

I don't see how difficult it is to see the point. The website is very clear, as have I and others in this thread been about this subject. To be quite honest this website didn't present any inspiring new information to me. I wouldn't be surprised if this website was made by a bunch of antagonistic reactionaries trying to get a bunch of kids that have the potential of spreading "radical" ideas in the current educational setting, to get the fuck out so in the end they don't have any choices at all.

I watched an episode of the Simpson’s last night, the one where Bart swaps his aptitude test results with Martin's and gets sent to "genius" school. In this school the children where allowed to organise and follow their own academic agenda in a way that made them feel they were learning. Uh huh, yeah. I saw that episode too. Very funny cartoon Fox has.

In a communist society, education will be about expression and creativity and about doing what you feel is right, why should we not start now! Umm maybe because we're not in a communist society yet?

No. Denying the alternative to present day school structures is absurd.Yeah, this alternative is wack.

They are seriously attempting to create a better way for young people to express themselves and learn. It is a massive challenge and they should be commended for it. Seriously? How far have they gotten so far? Ofcourse it's a challege to try to get through life without a fucking GED.

The public shool system has it's flaws, there is no denying that.However, obviously many of the people on here didn't turn out so bad. After all, I go to an American high school and it's not as bad as you think it is. There is room to explore new ideas. You'd be surprised.

redstar2000

9th February 2005, 16:57

Originally posted by FatFreeMilk
After all, I go to an American high school and it's not as bad as you think it is. There is room to explore new ideas. You'd be surprised.

Some are not as bad as others; perhaps you are lucky enough to get to go to one of the good ones.

From the posts on this board over the years, it looks like a lot of kids are not so lucky.

The "bottom line" is that no one is saying "drop out of school" as a "benchmark" of "revolutionary commitment".

What is being said is that if you're tired of the taste of shit, stop eating it.

And that's clearly a revolutionary message.

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Intifada

9th February 2005, 18:52

Don't drop out of school.

Just keep getting detentions and write about how fucked up our world is.

That is what I do.

Funny thing is, a few of the teachers actually agree with what I write.

bolshevik butcher

13th February 2005, 15:28

Modern Studies is actaully reasnobly balanced or even tipped in our favour in my year becasue there's me and another commie who contribute the most in class.

The Feral Underclass

13th February 2005, 15:50

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 06:54 AM
To be quite honest this website didn't present any inspiring new information to me.
it isn't supposed to be doing that. It's supposed to be offering people an alternative to their present day school structure.

I wouldn't be surprised if this website was made by a bunch of antagonistic reactionaries trying to get a bunch of kids that have the potential of spreading "radical" ideas in the current educational setting, to get the fuck out so in the end they don't have any choices at all.

I think that's a very prejudiced attitude to have. Show me what makes you think this?

Uh huh, yeah. I saw that episode too. Very funny cartoon Fox has.

I never realised how viciously sarcastic you are. Do you do this as a substitute for an argument?

Are you saying that organising an alternative to the oppression of school is a fantasy? Why? I suppose organising an alternative to Capitalism is also a fantasy?

Umm maybe because we're not in a communist society yet?

Interesting? So communist principles are only acceptable within a communist society?

I don't agree. I think defying capitalism and its domination is a step in the right direction. Encouraging young people to be liberated from the oppression of the school system and showing them that they can organise their own education is also a step in the right direction.

Yeah, this alternative is wack.

I think you're deliberately refusing to see the point.

Seriously? How far have they gotten so far?

You're judging this based on a definition of success. Life isn't about being successful.

Are they doctors? Teachers? Probation officers? Probably not, but what they are is liberated and attempting to live independently. It isn't always easy. I have and continue to experience what it is like trying to "free" from certain things.

I have absolutely no qualifications at all. Most people, including the older members of my family see this as a wasted opportunity and think it will encroach on the success of my life, as if they understood what my definition of success was.

There are many opportunities for radical alternatives within society, including housing co-operatives, business collectives and also humanitarian work. In terms of building an alternative to capitalism fighting for those things is better than attaining your GED.

Please understand that I am not at all saying that my lifestyle is any better than someone elses. If someone wants to be a teacher or doctor [which we need] that is perfectly acceptable.

For those however, who feel constricted, uninspired and submissive, this website and group of people say quite definatly: there is an alternative. Like redstar2000 said. I wish I knew about this when I was forced to go to school.

[b]The public shool system has it's flaws, there is no denying that.

The education system is fundamentally wrong.

RevolutionaryLeftist

14th February 2005, 20:58

public education is irrelevant and not useful. if you want a real education, go to a library.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

17th February 2005, 20:25

Can't we host the site? The poor bastards are on .tk.

I absolutly love the idea. I have to admit though that I am kinda chickening out, I have only 2 months to go and I don't want to give my parents a heartattack. (They really really care about school, they were university teachers once.)

Me and Elect Marx were talking about this recently. Think about this:

A lot of youngsters are quite radical in their "careless" years, but as they age they compromise with the system and eventually become reactionary and another dull "brick in the wall".

But if they are drop-outs, it becomes much more difficult for them to compromise with the system. As a diplomaless person, you are pretty much "doomed" to be/stay workingclass. Thus their radicalness out of their youth remains and we will be able to built up a movement with some consistency.

To encourage dropping out, we should built up alternatives for schools; "education centres". Where people learn out of curiousity and not fear of low grades or consequences for their economic status. Even set up networks between unions and youngsters, so that they can easily experiment with working.

Bit suprised that nobody has posted it yet, but they are still fuckin great:

We don’t need no education.
We don’t need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teacher, leave those kids alone.
Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!
All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.
All in all you’re just another brick in the wall.

waltersm

19th February 2005, 22:30

if you drop you will be doing 2 things

1.giving up on a lot of youth that could be converted to communism
2. giving up an education, whos going to folow a kid with a juinor high diploma

redstar2000

20th February 2005, 02:05

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 05:30 PM
if you drop you will be doing 2 things

1.giving up on a lot of youth that could be converted to communism
2. giving up an education, whos going to folow a kid with a juinor high diploma
1. If you are a student in an especially conscious & rebellious high school, you'd probably not even think about dropping out...there'd be too much going on. (Berkeley High School?)

But that's not the case in most places, to say the least. Is it "better" for a young commie or anarchist to beat her head against a wall of mall-rats...or to move on to environments in which she may meet more sympathetic listeners?

2. The point of resistance to the despotism of capital is not to "win followers"...it's to teach people how to lead themselves to revolution.

A diploma is not required for this position. :D

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dev/null

20th February 2005, 04:21

I think a serious point that many of you have missed throughout this discussion is that school does not teach you anything beyond basic reading/writing and arithmetic skills. Beyond about fourth grade, you learn very few new things. The simple truth of the matter is that anything beyond that does not concern most people. If you plan to become a mathematician or a rocket scientist, then yeah, maybe, but even then you could just as easily learn on your own for the most part. What school really does is systematically condition you to follow the rules of society. That little piece of paper, that diploma, doesn’t say anything about your knowledge or learning abilities, what it’s really saying to the world is “Look, I passed my brainwashing sessions; I’m a productive member of society!”.

Is simply dropping out a good suggestion for kids? Probably not in the grand scheme of things, but simply going through the motions is not a great idea either. Personally, I attend an online academy where I can do general assignments at my own pace. This usually means that I can have an entire semester worth of work completed within a month or two because I am not held back by the dominion of some quasi parental figure, nor burdened with unneeded stress from lower forms of life such as bullies and my generally arrogant and pigheaded peers that make up a large majority of student bodies. So long as we live in the societies that we do, merely dropping out is practically suicide unless you wish to live as a bum. While some may support such an ideology, claiming to forsake material need and whatnot, I really don’t believe that the majority of us are ready or willing to go through with anything that drastic and life altering while everyone else is living a seemingly happy existence.

What many have done as a tolerable medium is “unschool”. It’s mainly an offshoot of home schooling, but instead of a parent giving his or her child the exact lessons that they would receive in a public school, they do nothing. The child is allowed to live, learn and grow on their own. The idea is that children know what is best for themselves in many cases, and being naturally curious beings they will learn on their own. It is school itself that robs us of our desire to learn and explore, something that I can personally vouch for. To unschool and still be successful within life, one must still obtain some kind of certificate that acknowledges the completion of what society deems necessary to know. To get around this, there are unschooling friendly evaluators that will let a child slide, so to speak. As long as they are learning something, it’s fine. The child, when ready, obtains a GED (and/or takes the SATs) which is already easy as pie, and then goes on to pursue whatever path they prefer in life. This could very well mean college. Of course, if college is the choice, the child will finally find themselves imprisoned within the clutches of society’s whim.

I don’t condone any of these methods personally, as I think the pursuit of knowledge is largely a matter of personally preference. But if more people were introduced to the alternatives of highly government regulated schooling, I believe we’d have a much different society.

Raisa

20th February 2005, 07:26

if school is a brainwashing camp, we need people in school to subvert that shit with the truth. If you drop out whats that gonna do?

Stay in school?

dev/null

20th February 2005, 09:26

Students that go against the grain are ostracized for being different. The Prep Army, in their Abercrombie & Finch uniforms, will make damn sure of that. There is no education to be found within the Ministry of Love (oops, I mean school), only social hierarchies where fashionable fascists with a taste for conformity reside and rule. Teachers that look outside of their lesson books in search of the truth are likewise often times quickly dealt with by administration, because free thought certainly cannot be present within a state of cerebral nullification. In many cases, the idea of destroying from within is great. Knowledge is power, but those in power do not want you to become knowledgeable. They will treat us like worms that deserve to be crushed under their boots. Sure, you could become that worm—you could infiltrate the fruits of their labor and eat away at it from the inside until it finally collapses into itself. This is a slow and largely ineffective process though. Patience may get the pieces into place, but a drastic move is required to achieve checkmate.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

20th February 2005, 15:16

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 08:26 AM
if school is a brainwashing camp, we need people in school to subvert that shit with the truth. If you drop out whats that gonna do?

Stay in school?
Oh boy. Let's all run for president - that could really change the system!

Obviously instead of all staying in school and talking "dangerously". We should get out and put what we mean in practice. This will attract more people and contribute to a social/revolutionary movement with continuity.

redstar2000

20th February 2005, 18:24

When people say (as they sometimes do) that American high schools are "not so bad"...well, it depends.

Teacher caught on tape pulling chair from under student refusing to stand for national anthem

A student named Jay (who wants his last name to be withheld) at Brick Township High School in New Jersey, had his chair pulled out from under him after he refused to stand for the national anthem. The class started out that morning with Mantel yelling "I don't want to hear a sound! Not a sound! Morning exercises will come on, you will stand, you will stand quietly, you will pay attention! Any Questions!?...Now stand up and keep your mouths shut!" Students stood up as the national anthem began playing.

In the middle of the anthem, Mantel walked over to Jay and demanded that he stand up. Jay silently refused, and Mantel yelled again, "Stand up!". Jay then said "I don't have to stand up". To which Mantel insisted "You have to stand." Jay said "No I don't". Mantel then reached over and pulled Jay's chair out from under him. Jay responded to Stuart Mantel's outrageous behavior by asking Mantel "Are you serious?", to which Mantel yelled "I am damn well serious."

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/142004/index.php

(additional links to audio & video at the site.)

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Intifada

20th February 2005, 19:34

Well done Jay.

;)

Anarchist Freedom

5th March 2005, 04:01

Sigh I want to shoot myself every moment im in school.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

5th March 2005, 14:43

Justice:

The school suspended one student for filming the incident, but has yet to punish the teacher.

Long live the Empire!

Anarchist Freedom

22nd March 2005, 16:54

Non Sect We should talk to malte into hosting getfreedropout.tk Because I would like to help them.

xkate

22nd March 2005, 17:49

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Feb 17 2005, 08:25 PM

To encourage dropping out, we should built up alternatives for schools; "education centres". Where people learn out of curiousity and not fear of low grades or consequences for their economic status. Even set up networks between unions and youngsters, so that they can easily experiment with working.
I agree with you. This site and post have both opened me up to an idea that was dead to me before... but still I have some doubts.
The majority of kids (or the ones in my area anyway) are complacent and lazy. Telling them to drop out is like telling them to sit at home and do nothing. They won't take advantage of free time to educate themselves. Even if school is redundant and a fucked up system, they're atleast doing something. To me, apathy seems worse than getting up and out of the house. Atleast this way everyone is active, thinking, and somewhat productive.

Opening up alternative schools would be a great idea. I think this is more reasonable to a lot of kids who aren't about to drop out of school and become a part of the revolution. It's too radical an idea for the majority of students.

codyvo

22nd March 2005, 21:58

Mybe instead of dropping out the people supporting dropouts should get together and try to start new progressive schools as an alternate.

Snitza

25th March 2005, 19:22

Christ, I remember a couple of assemblies at school...Star Spangled Banner would be sung by a student, everyone would stand, of course(at a command, mind you). I would remain seated, and most times no teacher would even notice, but I've had a female faculty member march over to me and pull me up my the arm.

"Land of the free"? Doesn't feel like it.

-Snitz

Shevek

1st May 2005, 05:48

I hate school. That is the major reason that I became an anarchist. I can't stand being stuck in a fucking nuthouse on a semi-regular basis, learning things that I don't care about or don't particularly want to know. I hate the idiots there, some of these shitheads wouldn't care if they were flipping burgers or some other menial job, they just stay and school and annoy every body, never learning anything, because the omnipresent, semi-ominipotent (yes I do realize it's an oxymoron) LAW say's that they have to stay in school, in the vain hope that the idiots there will actually care about anything but thier social status.

That being said, I can't quit school. I have lived my entire life waiting for college, I've come too far to give it up now. Besides, if I don't get a good education (even if it is pointless giving a general education for a specialized economy) I'll end up unable to afford a house. I may be an anarchist, but in spite of my sympathies for the poor, I'd rather be a middle-class anarchist then a poor one. I'm not so commited to anarchy that I would put myself under the heal of society to learn just how crushing it was. School has already given me a small sample :lol: .

DoomedOne

1st May 2005, 19:10

I'm currently in Highschool, and my freshmen year I wouldn't stopa rguing, never did any homework that didn't seem relevant, and had no motivation to do well. Here's the funny thing, school is not a brainwash camp, you[re blowing it out of proportion. Sure, they try to brainwash you a little, and teach you to be an automaton to an extent, but it's not like you're being strapped to a chair and hypnotized. They're not preaching Capitalistic Ideals. The only class that seems biased at all is history.

I changed schools to a small alternative school with no homework, a lot of art classes, an off-the-charts-liberal social-studies teacher and progressive science teacher. It's school that allows students to choose themselves what they want to do so they're motivated to do it. It let's you find yourself and understand what you want to do with the rest of your life.

Even in Public school as long as you're critical of your cirriculum then you can get educated, get to college, get your piece of paper that declares you a "have" and gain some credibility.

bushdog

3rd May 2005, 14:43

If you realize that school is brainwashing then why should you drop out? If you know it's brainwashing, then dont believe it. if you dont get and education then you will be no better than the idiotic right wing hicks. other than on the subjects of history and social sciences, school teaches valuable knowledge. If your such a badass and know everything you should correct them when they try to present false information.

getfreedropout

3rd May 2005, 18:29

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 01:43 PM
If you realize that school is brainwashing then why should you drop out?
Because school is a waste of time. Rather than wasting hours every week going to an institution that had nothing to offer me, I dropped out and sought out a worthwhile and interesting education. Dropping out of school gave me more time to pursue radical projects (like the get free drop out website) and really develop a coherent critique of capitalism.

Anyway, thanks for all of the comments about the site! We're putting together a lot of new features that will hopefully take the project to the next level.

Things we need help with:
Copying and distributing our zine - if you can hook us up with copies to send back to us or can at least copy and distro it where you live, please get in touch.

Outreach and promotion - we need help spreading the word about this project. if you're good with images and can make us web-banners, link to our site, put an ad for us in your zine, or just tell your friends about it, it'd be really helpful.

Interviews - we've done one interview (with Liberation Zine), and we want to do more. if you want to interview us for your zine, website, or whatever, drop us a line.

Domain name - while the free domain from .tk is alright, a real domain (getfreedropout.org or youthliberation.info or something similar) would be even better.

Most importantly, we want to hear about what youth liberation activities you're up to! This project is all about publicizing and spreading the word about what youth are up to. In order to do this, we need you to let us know what's going down where you live. Send us communiques, action reports, new stories, and prisoner/repression info. We have a ton of great contacts, so if you're doing something and need help with it, we might be able to hook you up with someone doing something similar.

bushdog

3rd May 2005, 18:40

Dropping out of school not further the ideas of the left but just create a mass of ignorant jackasses. Are you actully suggesting that dropping out of school will advance our cause?

bunk

3rd May 2005, 18:43

We can get a better education outside of school. We can also focus it more on politics and leftist campaigns.

Nirvus System

3rd May 2005, 23:20

Maybe at a highschool level, but you get a better education and connections from University and highschool is part of getting there.

Most of our problems today is because the kids that are in school aren't being educated well enough. I have little respect for people who don't put effort into their schooling and I definitly wouldn't listen to some little extreme, hard-x-core punk kid who drops out of school because he doesn't like people giving him flak for his political beliefs. If you truely believe in what you are saying, people won't get to you. Running away from the people that flak you is the same as saying "I have no confidence in what I say - you win...Ill just go away" Those people you dislike will pick up on this and their stance will just be reinforced.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

4th May 2005, 00:07

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 05:48 AM
I may be an anarchist, but in spite of my sympathies for the poor, I'd rather be a middle-class anarchist then a poor one. I'm not so commited to anarchy that I would put myself under the heal of society to learn just how crushing it was. School has already given me a small sample :lol: .
Bit hypocrit isn't? To call up the workers overthrow their oppressors, while you are part of the oppressors.

getfreedropout

4th May 2005, 04:49

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 05:40 PM
Dropping out of school not further the ideas of the left but just create a mass of ignorant jackasses. Are you actully suggesting that dropping out of school will advance our cause?
Schools, as they exist now, crush the natural urge to learn and stifle creativity. To use your words, schools churn out "ignorant jackasses" by the millions.

I don't know what "our" cause is, but dropping out is definitely a potentially liberating option that works for a lot of people. Of course, it's not the only option. There are a million ways to resist while staying in school, and our project focuses on those as well.

Youth, for the most part, aren't interested in leftist causes (and quite frankly, neither am I). Youth are concerned with their everyday lives and the institutions and individuals that make their lives alienating, boring, and violent. Attacks against capitalism by youth are going to be against targets that affect them the most directly (school, police, psych wards, etc).

We are not proposing the abolition of schools in a vacuum. We acknowledge that anti-school and youth liberation struggles are part of a larger collective refusal of capitalism. In place of schools, we seek to create voluntary, co-operative, and open places of learning.

[email protected] if you want to help out

codyvo

4th May 2005, 23:36

Like I said before instead of dropping out we should try to start some progressive private schools, their are two in my area i'll tell more about them if you want to learn.
If the kids drop out entirely then we will have to ask "is our children learning?"

Jersey Devil

5th May 2005, 00:40

Wow......this is the funniest thread I have ever read in here and there is considerable opposition. Indeed guys, throw you chances of ever attaining Bachelor's or even advanced degrees away because you don't like being picked on by the bourgeoisie i.e., the jocks. I use to go to school with imbeciles and mediocre at best teachers. Yes it is infuriating to listen to lectures from teachers who you think are your intellectual inferiors. But, guess what, it's only for 4 years and once your done you may have the opportunity to work with professors and peers, although not all, who are interested in the same things you are interested in. Be it politics or a certain academic field. I don't know why I am even pleading with any of you, it makes no difference as the vast majority who say they will "drop out" never will since their "fascist" parents will never let them anyway.

Ferran

5th May 2005, 02:43

I have to wonder how many people here cling to the title of "anarchist" because they think school is what real life is like. Here are two questions that would fascinate me to see the answers to.

1) Who here is 18 or above?
2) Who here supports themselves financially?

So many of you have mentioned how it's the schools that stifle creativity, or the schools that brainwash you one way or another or force you to learn about something that's menial and worthless. On the contrary, I daresay that it isn't the schools but some societal notion that's developed which says, "go to school, get as good of grades as you can, and work yourself to death to get to college to make as much money as you can."

It's not the school's fault this concept exists -- believe it or not, most schools that I know of have Art programs, or Creative Writing classes, or foreign languages. Mine even has ROP courses, which is pretty much 2 periods of on-the-job training in all sorts of fields (Sports medicine, Fire Science, Automotives, beauticians).

The only thing holding a chunk of generation back, I think, is a general sense of apathy. Kids say "Oh, school sucks -- why bother with it when I have better things to do?" And when they see a website about dropping out of school because it's so "oppressive" and stifles one's ability to express one's political views, all they'll see is someone excusing their apathy and laziness. They won't care about the website's logic; hell, they'll probably forget that the website existed in a few months anyhow once the next "anti-society" fad comes along. I pity those who jump on board this one, simply because they will ahve lost an opportunity at a free education.

Some of you rail about the quality of public education, so I have to wonder what you're doing to change it. Or, some of you complain that you don't learn anything useful, so I have to wonder how many schools DON'T teach English, lower and higher Math (it's not just about crunching numbers -- it's about being able to solve complex problems and making your brain work), foreign languages, have choir and music programs, sports, and so on. Yes, schools have certain courses that are required -- but they also have electives! You say you can't learn anything useful in high school? Ask an engineer how important geometry is. Or, do what I did and take 4 years of a foreign language (I'm to the point where I can speak spanish near-fluently, and working on spanish has made me interested in linguistics in general, which has made it so that I can understand french, german, and italian simply becasue I want to).

You talk about how schools brainwash kids? So does the media. So do politicians. So does ANYONE with an agenda, even the well-flaunted anarchists and communists -- get over it.

Basically, I'm somewhat fired up over this because I fully intend on teaching high school because I want to teach. No, I don't want to brainwash them; for my senior project, I've been teaching an Accelerated English class a unit on individuality. But when I see someone encouraging today's and tomorrow's youth to drop out and explore by themselves, it hurts. You might not like a teacher, but ALL teachers are in it to help, not hinder. It all depends on YOUR attitude.

<_< </rant>

DoomedOne

5th May 2005, 04:13

Thank you, that was what I was trying to say but really couldn't. School is a means to an end. You take it, get through it and believe it or not you do get out of it with the skills necessary to achieve a lot. They're not perfect by a long shot, and many teachers are very anal retentive, much of the homework automotizes you, but it's not an asylum.

Pimpin'Princip

5th May 2005, 19:10

I love the idea of learning freely, and i hope that one day that is the process we will use. Things like trade guilds and apprenticeships. A relationship where masterteaches student untill there is simply an understanding that the craft/trade has been learned. But irealize that this is unlikely to occur. I have only a few weeks of high school left and then i am entering kutztown university. Although there have been negative experiences with school, the main idea is to find the teachers that are smart and somewhat leftist if possible, often you can learn extra, coo lthings from them. Research what you care about after school, read books. Have a class you cant stand? Read about something you like during that class and use a friends notes later so all you do is memorize the shit for the test. don't sweat school ,its really not so bad, jst learn what you want and simply memorize the rest jsut good enough to pass. you won't get into a really great university, but you can go to a decent one. this way you don't loose the chance to have a good career later in life, but you also dont have to try too hard in school.

getfreedropout

9th May 2005, 16:39

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:36 PM
Like I said before instead of dropping out we should try to start some progressive private schools, their are two in my area i'll tell more about them if you want to learn.
If the kids drop out entirely then we will have to ask "is our children learning?"
"Progressive private schools" are expensive and only serve to create (at best) a dormant leftist intelligentsia and at worst the 'hip' technocrats, advertising execs, and politicians of tomorrow.

If the kids stay in school, we have to ask: "what things are our children learning?" In inner city schools, they're learning what jail is like and being prepared for a life of shit jobs and/or inprisonment. In private schools and nicer public schools, they're learning how to to be a part of the capitalist economy. They're being trained to become (depending on the status of their parents) white collar workers, blue collar workers, or prison inmates.

Learning should always be voluntary. School doesn't allow for this. Any decent education one gets in highschool happens in spite of the highschool. The best highschool students would be able to learn even more in an environment where they choose the path their education takes. Youth are capable of learning on their own. If adult allies want to help out and act as guides or mentors (and many adults do, it's wonderful), that's great. In the meantime, youth are taking their lives into their own hands and attacking the authoritarian capitalist institutions that are force-feeding them shit.

Public school is essentially one giant cerebral hemmorage that deprives your brain of anything usefel and kills your spirit. I got the fuck out, and many others are doing the same. Youth still in school are keeping up the resistance as well.

The elitist, ageist attitudes in this thread are alarming. If you're really interested in revolution, you should not be defending capitalist institutions (be they school, the courts, or the health-care system).

To tell youth that school is "only 4 years, so you should just suck it up and go to college" is stupid on so many levels and reveals just how elitist the Left is. First, the majority of this country's population doesn't go to college. Second, for many of us, intellectual masturbation and sitting around talking theory with leftist professors isn't our idea of revolutionary action. The leftist educational establishment is false opposition and is complicit in perpetuating this system.

codyvo

10th May 2005, 01:58

I agree that the school system is fucked up but I don't think everyone should just drop out. Think about it, if you had the choice wouldn't you have dropped out in second grade. Then the people that would become the working class would become the idiot class and the rich would just increase their power control.

bunk

10th May 2005, 08:24

Dropping out doesn't mean to end your education.

codyvo

11th May 2005, 02:28

Originally posted by Josh of [email protected] 10 2005, 07:24 AM
Dropping out doesn't mean to end your education.
No dropping out is only what you make it. If you spend your time researching, reading and learning new things then it is fine, what I am saying is that most people would simply assume that they know enough to get by or don't need to learn anything new which would be even worse than the current school system.

getfreedropout

11th May 2005, 04:11

Originally posted by codyvo+May 11 2005, 01:28 AM--> (codyvo @ May 11 2005, 01:28 AM)
Josh of [email protected] 10 2005, 07:24 AM
Dropping out doesn't mean to end your education.
No dropping out is only what you make it. If you spend your time researching, reading and learning new things then it is fine, what I am saying is that most people would simply assume that they know enough to get by or don't need to learn anything new which would be even worse than the current school system. [/b]
Going to school is only what you make it as well. Most people who attend public school don't learn shit and come away from the experience with a lot of built up intolerance towards things like reading and researching.

Dropping out is taking education into your own hands. What you do with it is up to you. As radicals, we should be searching out these kind of situations where folks can opt out of capitalist institutions and make decisions for themselves. Of course, it is impossible to "drop out" of capitalism, but getting out of the boring waste of time that is school is a good way to deepen one's own resistance.

Zecharya

14th May 2005, 04:17

Personally, I think school is fine for me. Now granted they teach me some pointless bullshit that I desire not to learn but have to take because they haven't
gotten a class that I have the requirements to take or that it simply does not exist.

I am pretty much happy with the school I currently attend because I just don't give much of a shit to care. I do the work, I am quiet and that keeps the teachers off my back. The shit they teach us is the shit they have to teach us most of the time.

But, I am growing irritated the way they try to install into kids 'Drop out and you become the man living in the box in the abandoned subway.' And also the way they try to force kids to go to school or suffer the consequences. I ditched school alot earlier this year and had a threatend that if I didn't come to school anymore that they would get a CHINS petetion signed against me and send me to juvi. <_<

But, all in all I am happy with schools to a degree. But there should be some changes. Like the ability for self-learning and the ability to choose any classes you want to take.

Commie Rat

14th May 2005, 04:51

i hate school but. .

stay in school learn as much as you can outside and inside, get both sides and always question

El_Revolucionario

16th May 2005, 18:31

I think this is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have ever heard. Everyone needs to get an education and go to college. You need to expand your horizons and learn more about life and the world. You know, it's pretty hard to get into college if you don't have a diploma or if you've dropped out. And there are universities that offer "marxist theory & practice" classes believe it or not. Don't drop out, by dropping out you will be failing yourself. Revolutionaries should be intelligent, thoughtful, and passionate people, and college will help you develop that kind of persona by enhancing your mind and knowledge.

There are people in third-world countries that would literally risk their lives to get an education, and there are many who would love to go to school but their parents are too poor to send them, because in many places education is not a guaranteed right like it is here. In places like China or India dropping out of school would essentially be equivalent to suicide.

codyvo

16th May 2005, 22:43

I agree, but in certain situations, only a few, it is beneficial for the person to drop out and get an education on their own. But we shouldn't be advocating widespread dropout amongst youth.

getfreedropout

17th May 2005, 01:27

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 05:31 PM
I think this is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have ever heard. Everyone needs to get an education and go to college. You need to expand your horizons and learn more about life and the world. You know, it's pretty hard to get into college if you don't have a diploma or if you've dropped out. And there are universities that offer "marxist theory & practice" classes believe it or not. Don't drop out, by dropping out you will be failing yourself.
What arrogant, elitist bullshit!

If you think that you're exapnding your horizons and learning more about life by sitting in a classroom listening to an academic lecture about marxist theory, then by all means go for it. But to declar that "EVERYONE needs to go to college" is ridiculous. From your position you might not be aware that most people in this country do not go to college.

I prefer to develop my marxist theory and practice by actually being involved in class struggle and not hiding in a bourgeois university.

By the way, it's actually pretty easy to go to college after dropping out. One can get a GED and then attend a State college. After a year or semester with good grades, it's not that hard to transfer into any college in the country. Of course, you have to be wealthy enough to pay for (fuck the rich, let them rot in the university lecture halls) or willing to be shackled down with student loans for the next 20 years of your life.

El_Revolucionario

17th May 2005, 14:26

Haha :lol:

Colleges are "bourgeois", eh?

Marx ---> University of Bonn, University of Humboldt
Ernesto "Che" Guevara ---> University of Buenos Aires
Rosa Luxemburg ---> Zurich University
Fidel Castro ---> University of Havana

El_Revolucionario

17th May 2005, 14:34

I prefer to develop my marxist theory and practice by actually being involved in class struggle and not hiding in a bourgeois university.
What are you going to do until then as a high school dropout? play video games in your mother's basement? :lol:

By the way, it's actually pretty easy to go to college after dropping out. One can get a GED and then attend a State college. After a year or semester with good grades, it's not that hard to transfer into any college in the country. Of course, you have to be wealthy enough to pay for (fuck the rich, let them rot in the university lecture halls) or willing to be shackled down with student loans for the next 20 years of your life.
Most of the people in public state universities are not "rich".

getfreedropout

17th May 2005, 16:37

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 01:34 PM

What are you going to do until then as a high school dropout? play video games in your mother's basement? :lol:
More ageist garbage.

I dropped out of highschool to work in childcare and put a time into prisoner support, animal defense, and other projects. Currently, I put out two zines, organize a weekly 'outdoor infoshop', and run www.impassionedinsurrection.info (in addition to helping with the get free - drop out! project).

While you may not be able to comprehend youth doing interesting radical things on their own, it's happening all over the world. Action is in the streets, in the workplace, and in the neighborhood, NOT in the university!

Commie Rat

18th May 2005, 08:55

i dont like school but i live with it

in Social Studies now we are doing a Unit on South East Asia

this is the text book defintion of Communism:

A Social system where the state owns all and indivudals are powerless, all political action is dominated by one party

Guerrilla22

18th May 2005, 10:38

High school did suck. Its a lot better in college though. Come to the University of Colorado and take classes with American Indian Movement activists Ward Churchill and Glenn Morris.

getfreedropout

19th May 2005, 16:55

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg+May 18 2005, 08:06 AM--> (Blitzkrieg @ May 18 2005, 08:06 AM)
Commie [email protected] 18 2005, 07:55 AM
Anyway, no school? Sure we all hate it but it's absolutely nessacary, well if you ever wanna earn money anyway... [/b]
That just isn't true.

I dropped out of highscool, started doing independent study, got my GED, and got a job. Not that hard to do. We're taught all of our lives that dropouts are destined to be bums, but that is not how things work in reality.

And since when is our goal earning money?

DaCuBaN

20th May 2005, 16:17

I'll say this now, I haven't read this thread all the way through...

I must say, this is one of the most refreshing sites I've ever seen - It was not so many years ago that I was trying to persuade my peers that their final years of school were a waste of their time - Now, I'm watching as my peers leave university education to spend a year or more looking for work, and eventually accepting something that is not only below their ability, but is quite frankly insulting to the level of commitment they've shown.

I'm sure some of you in the UK have experienced the same thing - four, five even six years of university education and you end up earning £14,000/year working as a "manager" in a supermarket, or spinning shit for some marketing company...

As one who took the "rebellion" line myself, I do feel however that I must recommend against it - Whilst I do not feel I missed anything if great importance, I feel somewhat like a traitor to my peers for abandoning them in the mire of high school education. A far better - and more empathic - approach to this would be to continue your education within the establishment, but to take education on your terms. Show up for what classes you see relevance to, tell your tutors your opinions not only of their subject matter, but of them and their methods. If disciplined, walk away - you'd be surprised (in the UK at least) how little can be done to repremand(sp?) you if you have the confidence. Beware however, that direct confrontation will serve to hasten your departure - and not in a good way.

Schools are meant to be there for you to learn, but in truth they turn into yet another tool of the "Have's" over the "Have-Not's". Don't abandon it - take what you need from it and help to turn it back into that which it was intended. Such establishments are the ideal breeding ground for thought and dissent from the status quo - if the seeds of doubt can be sewn.

In short, don't turn down a free meal because it came with a side you don't like. Simply take the bits you like, and leave the rest for the dogs...

bunk

20th May 2005, 16:43

That's a good idea but i was in a private school which was hell and they disciplined hard. Needless to say i've dropped out now.

beyondgoodandevil

27th May 2005, 13:23

:angry: i hate my school the sociolist ethics are completly fucked up. they say we are equal but in fact we still are rigoureslly tortured at the hands of our diktat headmaster!
why have a democratic republic when it sucks? i agree that you should drop out.

slim

27th May 2005, 18:44

I go to a catholic school in England and i can say that our headmistress is a nazi.

A few weeks ago she tried to expell my cousin because he printed off words on the internet from a translation website saying she was a nazi in german among other things. She took it personally. I had to argue with her about it and she threatened to expell me too but i had to laugh. The head of year witnessed it and laughed too.

My cousin escaped the noose because of a legend of a maths teacher intervening and outwitting the ***** in a leadership council meeting.

getfreedropout

29th May 2005, 16:38

There's a forum specifically for youth liberation/anti-school type things here: http://xliberationx.proboards29.com/index.cgi

CEWS

30th May 2005, 04:39

Fuck "school!" Educate yourself.

So, ther is a school where kids have no curriculum, no classes are even offered by staff members. Yet, 90% of kids graduating there went to college and out of that group 4 out of 5 got into their first choice of college. :cool:

In a communist society, education will be about expression and creativity and about doing what you feel is right, why should we not start now!

In fact there are schools called Steiner schools which advocate such teaching methods.

Steiner schools are horrible! They are just as compulsory as public schools.

(unschooling is) mainly an offshoot of home schooling

Not really. They are two separate things.

Mybe instead of dropping out the people supporting dropouts should get together and try to start new progressive schools as an alternate.

Already happening. www.hudsonvalleyschool.org

So many of you have mentioned how it's the schools that stifle creativity, or the schools that brainwash you one way or another or force you to learn about something that's menial and worthless. On the contrary, I daresay that it isn't the schools but some societal notion that's developed which says, "go to school, get as good of grades as you can, and work yourself to death to get to college to make as much money as you can."

Well, schools actually do stiffle you from doing most things.

And when they see a website about dropping out of school because it's so "oppressive" and stifles one's ability to express one's political views, all they'll see is someone excusing their apathy and laziness.

Cumpulsory education creates apathy and laziness by taking away initiative.

I pity those who jump on board this one, simply because they will ahve lost an opportunity at a free education.

Public (compulsory) schools are not free. They drain you mentally and physically. Droping out would freer monetarily.

:cool: Don't let school get in the way of your education and life!

Hegemonicretribution

2nd June 2005, 15:04

I know the boat has kind of sailed in this thread, but I am annoyed I didn't see this earlier. I am a high-school dropout. I have had a year of working a menial job and subsistance dodgy-dealing, and am about to finish what I started at the local college. Perhaps education is different here to the U.S. but I found time to educate myself whilst nodding and smiling to what the school taught me. In the U.K. it seems to be far more accepted that it is only a sysstem, and many teachers agree that everything is a joke. (Many of them have left since I gave up school)

I do feel that university is an oppurtunity here, not for reasons of future employment, or anything along those lines, but simply for the social life and resources. Plus I get a free scholarship and a living grant because of where I live. I did well at school without doing homework, attending classes I didn't want to or one iota of revision. I spent that time learning. I realise if many blagged their way through as I did people would know something was up, but it was too easy.

If I had dropped out earlier there would be about 600 less fairtrade customers(in a school of 1000), no fair trade or organic menu options.

Dropping out was what happened when I couldn't stand it anymore. I will say though that if I lived in America I would advocate that site 110% as I don't I can only do it 99%. Absolutely fantastic. One of the best reads in a long time. Although I will still take my free university education, not because I nedd it, just for novelty's sake when I do whatever it is I do.

zshzn

3rd June 2005, 02:31

I dislike school. I view with harsh criticism the information given, and strive hard to educate myself on my own. I stay in high school so that I can enter university, which I think will be a great improvement to my life. Any argument with that?

Simply because I'm in the public education system does not mean I think any less intelligently or am any less open to ideas. Education is essential, and not everyone can or will educate themselves. Often social pressures and strong parental opinions can be just as biased, limiting, and corrupt as school, if not much more so.

C_Rasmussen

3rd June 2005, 03:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 01:31 AM
I dislike school. I view with harsh criticism the information given, and strive hard to educate myself on my own. I stay in high school so that I can enter university, which I think will be a great improvement to my life. Any argument with that?

Simply because I'm in the public education system does not mean I think any less intelligently or am any less open to ideas. Education is essential, and not everyone can or will educate themselves. Often social pressures and strong parental opinions can be just as biased, limiting, and corrupt as school, if not much more so.
Exactly what I was thinking. I graduated high school last year and got my diploma but I never fell for any of their fucking bullshit. I just sucked it up and acted like I agreed. Its a case of getting a good job that made me want to stay in school no matter how much shit they TRIED to fill me with. You guys get what I'm saying?

The American Bolshevik

3rd June 2005, 21:12

I find it ironic that the school drop-out site has a pharmaceutical (sp?) company advertising on it...

getfreedropout

5th June 2005, 23:15

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 02:21 AM
I just sucked it up and acted like I agreed. Its a case of getting a good job that made me want to stay in school no matter how much shit they TRIED to fill me with. You guys get what I'm saying?
As a revolutionary and a human being, there is no way I can advocate "sucking it up and acting like you agree." I refused to suck it up and take that bullshit, and I hope others refuse to as well.

There are no "good jobs" for most of us and striving for a "good job" is not my idea of radical praxis.

As for the advertisement, that's what happens when you get a free domain name instead of paying for one. Sorry, we can't get rid of it.

Jersey Devil

6th June 2005, 00:11

We get it, your cool.

Down with Calculus

Down with Econometrics!

Down with Civil Engineering!

Down with Neurology!

Let's all wear Che shirts and ***** about how the world is going to shit without contributing anything to it.

anomaly

6th June 2005, 04:58

Originally posted by Jersey [email protected] 5 2005, 11:11 PM
We get it, your cool.

Down with Calculus

Down with Econometrics!

Down with Civil Engineering!

Down with Neurology!

Let's all wear Che shirts and ***** about how the world is going to shit without contributing anything to it.
Perhaps instead of *****ing about how the world is, we should change the world. Che himself didn't ***** about the world only, rather he got out there and changed the world. There are revolutionary movements taking place in many countries thoughout the world, so why don't we revolutionaries living in a 1st world country leaving to go aid these movements? I have actually flirted with the idea of a massive socialist migration to one of these countries where a revolutionary movement is taking place.

As for education, I plan to not drop out but rather stay in school and attend college. I plan to major in both economics and political science in order to better understand the workings of the movement. After college, I plan on leaving the USA and either going to Europe or to a country like Venezuela where the revolutionary movement is strong.

bed_of_nails

6th June 2005, 05:39

Originally posted by anomaly+Jun 6 2005, 03:58 AM--> (anomaly @ Jun 6 2005, 03:58 AM)
Jersey [email protected] 5 2005, 11:11 PM
We get it, your cool.

Down with Calculus

Down with Econometrics!

Down with Civil Engineering!

Down with Neurology!

Let's all wear Che shirts and ***** about how the world is going to shit without contributing anything to it.
Perhaps instead of *****ing about how the world is, we should change the world. Che himself didn't ***** about the world only, rather he got out there and changed the world. There are revolutionary movements taking place in many countries thoughout the world, so why don't we revolutionaries living in a 1st world country leaving to go aid these movements? I have actually flirted with the idea of a massive socialist migration to one of these countries where a revolutionary movement is taking place.

As for education, I plan to not drop out but rather stay in school and attend college. I plan to major in both economics and political science in order to better understand the workings of the movement. After college, I plan on leaving the USA and either going to Europe or to a country like Venezuela where the revolutionary movement is strong. [/b]
Che didnt drop out either.

I believe that one must milk the system to understand how to beat it. I will attend school and I plan on going to college somewhere.

danny android

9th June 2005, 22:45

education is our greatest weapon.

bunk

9th June 2005, 22:52

Once again, leaving school isn't the end of education, it's the beginning of a far greater education; if you want.

danny android

9th June 2005, 23:02

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 09:52 PM
Once again, leaving school isn't the end of education, it's the beginning of a far greater education; if you want.
true. but i prefer to use a system that is already established to get the education that i want. I can't particularly go to a university if i don't go to highschool. pluss i believe in free education so i like to go to school to support that ideal.

Holocaustpulp

10th June 2005, 00:23

Why not fight the establishment from inside it, i.e., from inside the school? Why not rid of such persecution by utilizing the bourgeois establishment against itself by forcing them to recognize biased laws? The school system is a very important thing for people, and quitting it is just stupid.

- HP

novemba

10th June 2005, 00:28

Heres what I'm doing. I'm a rising Junior in High School, and much like you all I can't stand it. So, I enrolled at a local community college in a pre-major program, I'm taking a GED course so I can earn a diploma in 1 semester, and then once I have all the required courses for college out of my way, and if I have a good SAT score (which I do) and keep good grades, I can transfer to any school that will accept me, and then I'm free to go for my graduate if I want, two years saved!

getfreedropout

12th June 2005, 19:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 11:23 PM
Why not fight the establishment from inside it, i.e., from inside the school? Why not rid of such persecution by utilizing the bourgeois establishment against itself by forcing them to recognize biased laws?
I definitely support youth who fight the establishment while in school. Check out this article about that: http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/yo...ryapproach.html (http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/youthliberation/insurrectionaryapproach.html)

However, I think it's important to realize that staying in school is not the only option and not the best option for everyone. For many, dropping out is the best thing they ever do.

Your suggestion of "getting rid of persecution" by "utilizing the bourgeois establishment" is reformist and naive. Neither the bourgeois establisment nor its laws have anything to do with liberation. Never have and never will.

Organic Revolution

12th June 2005, 19:16

Originally posted by danny [email protected] 9 2005, 03:45 PM
education is our greatest weapon.
education is our greatest weapon, not state run schools. why stay in highschool when the state controls what we hear and see and do for eight hours a day.

Guess...t

13th June 2005, 20:04

It was through University that I developed my taste for leftism. Universities usually don't take sides on issues, but take about issues in open debate settings. Sound pretty oppressive I know. If you make it that far, I think you'll be glad you did. But I don't lose respect for anyone who decides to drop out for political activism.

'Discourse Unlimited'

13th June 2005, 23:06

I wish I'd seen this thread sooner! *Idiot* My thoughts on the matter:

Education is invaluable. It is so unbelievably important, both to individual development and to the future of the Leftist movement, that I'd almost consider it a crime to voluntarily abandon any schooling whatsoever!

The focus of school should not be "exam grades". Nor should it be an attempt to prepare students for the "real world" of paid employment. Primary and Secondary-school education ought to teach children how to think. By this I do not mean 'indoctrination'. Rather, teachers ought to encourage children to think for themselves - and whether one is puzzling over physics or maths calculations, 'interrogating sources' (this was a favourite phrase of one of the humanities overlords at my school) in a history class, or coming to grips with the fundamentals of Chemistry and Biology - there is the potential to increase one's ability to reason, to question, and ultimately, to comprehend the world around us. Isn't this a laudable goal?

I fully realise that teachers can be overbearing, even oppressive... And that it can be difficult to try to assume an identity of one's own in a school environment... (I have personal experience! :P ) Furthermore, I do not wish to put down anyone who HAS left school in order that they may try to educate themselves... But in my opinion, the school environment (I'll include the university environment, too) is the best opportunity we EVER have to learn. Don't waste it!

C_Rasmussen

14th June 2005, 05:22

Originally posted by getfreedropout+Jun 5 2005, 10:15 PM--> (getfreedropout @ Jun 5 2005, 10:15 PM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 02:21 AM
I just sucked it up and acted like I agreed. Its a case of getting a good job that made me want to stay in school no matter how much shit they TRIED to fill me with. You guys get what I'm saying?
As a revolutionary and a human being, there is no way I can advocate "sucking it up and acting like you agree." I refused to suck it up and take that bullshit, and I hope others refuse to as well.

There are no "good jobs" for most of us and striving for a "good job" is not my idea of radical praxis.

As for the advertisement, that's what happens when you get a free domain name instead of paying for one. Sorry, we can't get rid of it. [/b]
I know this is a few days old from when it was first posted but what the fuck are you on? Whats wrong with getting a job? How are you going to make it in life if you don't have money. Eventually you' move out of your parents house and your going to have to get a place. Homes are not cheap and rent on apartments is rather fucking expensive. Even if you move in with friends they're probably going to expect you to pay for a small amount of the payments. What do you mean also "as a human being, you can't just suck it up and act like you agree"? That made no fucking sense whatsoever.

Noah

18th June 2005, 16:05

I want to be a doctor when I'm older. So I'm not dropping out of school, your system is intelligent but I dont understand how it works. So I can choose what I learn? I don't believe that will work because most of the 'gangsta's' who live in the 'ghetto' will drop out, sit at home and start mugging us for money because they don't have any qualifications. Many of the brainwashed teenager girls, will become prostitutes.

Im being a doctor because I enjoy helping people, you could cut the pay and id still take the position and yes 90% school is a waste of time but I don't want to risk my future on something that might not work. I only have 1 life, I want to make sure I become a doctor. As long as capitalism is in power, they will not accept this system (correct me if i'm wrong)?

Yours,
Noah.

bunk

18th June 2005, 16:18

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:22 AM

I know this is a few days old from when it was first posted but what the fuck are you on? Whats wrong with getting a job? How are you going to make it in life if you don't have money. Eventually you' move out of your parents house and your going to have to get a place. Homes are not cheap and rent on apartments is rather fucking expensive. Even if you move in with friends they're probably going to expect you to pay for a small amount of the payments. What do you mean also "as a human being, you can't just suck it up and act like you agree"? That made no fucking sense whatsoever.
Housing collectives?

C_Rasmussen

19th June 2005, 15:45

Originally posted by Josh+Jun 18 2005, 03:18 PM--> (Josh @ Jun 18 2005, 03:18 PM)
[email protected] 14 2005, 04:22 AM

I know this is a few days old from when it was first posted but what the fuck are you on? Whats wrong with getting a job? How are you going to make it in life if you don't have money. Eventually you' move out of your parents house and your going to have to get a place. Homes are not cheap and rent on apartments is rather fucking expensive. Even if you move in with friends they're probably going to expect you to pay for a small amount of the payments. What do you mean also "as a human being, you can't just suck it up and act like you agree"? That made no fucking sense whatsoever.
Housing collectives? [/b]
What are housing collectives? None the less I stand by what I said.

bunk

19th June 2005, 18:13

Squats or bought houses to live in. Where you grow stuff and try and become as self-sufficient as possible, it is a co-operative

rage master

23rd June 2005, 03:56

:che: in order to revolt you must have under standing of what you are revolting against don’t drop out just fight back at school and get others to join you :hammer: :ph34r:

C_Rasmussen

23rd June 2005, 20:31

Originally posted by rage [email protected] 23 2005, 02:56 AM
:che: in order to revolt you must have under standing of what you are revolting against don’t drop out just fight back at school and get others to join you :hammer: :ph34r:
Yeah that sounds like it makes sense seeing as if you drop out then how can you use what they teach you against them?

Invader Zim

23rd June 2005, 21:12

People who drop out of school are idiot, ignorant children, who have no clue about life.

You may hate school, but I gurantee that you would perfer it to living on jiro packets, doing a dead end job getting paid minimum wage or cleaning toilets in the military. Especially when the bills start rolling in.

Rent, Insurance, Coincil tax, water rates, electricity and sewage. These are just some of the basics.

You may drop out of school and you then get something like £5.50 if your lucky working at Tesco's, you may think its a lot, but as soon as you move out into the real world, you will struggle. If you lose your job and end up queing for jiro, then you are going to be fucking desperate. You will look back on your school days, and realise that no matter what shit you went through, life can and does get a whole lot worse.

Personally, I stayed at school. I study at university, but I work with people like I am describing. Aged over 45 still getting paid minimum wage, and only just got off the dole. They do back breaking menial labour for next to nothing, yet they don't mind, simply because its better than jiro, which is the alternative. Its a shit state of affairs to be in, but that is what happens but that is what happens in a world with competition for employment. You have to have something to give, if you drop out of school, you have nothing.

You naive people.

The Feral Underclass

29th June 2005, 16:35

Ive unsticked this and added a link in the political campaigns thread.

Pawn Power

29th June 2005, 16:58

doing a dead end job getting paid minimum wage

ALL jobs are dead ends.

Organic Revolution

29th June 2005, 18:22

so do you want to get a fucking 6 figure job... any job you get you are going to be a wage slave.

Led Zeppelin

29th June 2005, 20:02

People who drop out of school are idiot, ignorant children, who have no clue about life.

This is petty emotionalism, it has no place in a mature discussion.

getting paid minimum wage or cleaning toilets in the military. Especially when the bills start rolling in.

Rent, Insurance, Coincil tax, water rates, electricity and sewage. These are just some of the basics.

You may drop out of school and you then get something like £5.50 if your lucky working at Tesco's, you may think its a lot, but as soon as you move out into the real world, you will struggle. If you lose your job and end up queing for jiro, then you are going to be fucking desperate. You will look back on your school days, and realise that no matter what shit you went through, life can and does get a whole lot worse.

So you only care about money? I didn't.

Personally, I stayed at school. I study at university, but I work with people like I am describing. Aged over 45 still getting paid minimum wage, and only just got off the dole. They do back breaking menial labour for next to nothing, yet they don't mind, simply because its better than jiro, which is the alternative. Its a shit state of affairs to be in, but that is what happens but that is what happens in a world with competition for employment. You have to have something to give, if you drop out of school, you have nothing.

You naive people.

Actually i still plan on going to university, but only to increase my overall intellect, and to stimulate it.

Now i will work for one year, and then study for two years, if all goes well i will acquire my diploma and be accepted at a foreign university, i plan on going to the Moscow university at the moment.

After that i will refuse to become a wage slave again, i will conduct revolutionary activity and become a professional revolutionary.

JC1

29th June 2005, 22:04

After that i will refuse to become a wage slave again, i will conduct revolutionary activity and become a professional revolutionary.

Being a profesinol Reveloutionary just means using youre non-working time in the struggle. I thinkthat being " Just a reveloutionary" leads to one being Divorced from the masses.

Led Zeppelin

30th June 2005, 12:17

Being a profesinol Reveloutionary just means using youre non-working time in the struggle.

Not true.

A few examples: Lenin, Luxembourg, Marx, Bukharin, Stalin etc.

Invader Zim

30th June 2005, 20:30

ALL jobs are dead ends.

Wrong, and if you get a job you enjoy then it doesn't matter if its dead end. But I guarantee you are not going to easily get a job you are going to enjoy if you have no qualifications.

This is petty emotionalism, it has no place in a mature discussion.

You mistake this for a debate, I am telling you the way the world works and is, I am not debating it. This is not a discussion it is a lecture, the fact taht you take issue with what I am telling youshows only how naive you are about the flaws of capitalism, which bind people inexorably to poverty.

so do you want to get a fucking 6 figure job...

We live in a capitalist society, not a socialist one. I want to change it, but while I live in it I will try to do so comfortably. I would rather do a dead end job, than do a dead end job and wonder where my next meal is coming from, or try and live off jiro. if I could get a 6 figure job which i enjoy then I would do it. Rather than do a 4 figure job I certainly wont enjoy.

any job you get you are going to be a wage slave.

You are absolutly correct, but I would rather be a wage slave living comftably on £30,000 PA than a wage slave on £9,000, or even worse not a wage slave, but living off jiro money.

So you only care about money?

No, I want to survive in comfort, which is a right everyone should be entitle to, and capitalism denies.

After that i will refuse to become a wage slave again,

You have no choice.

i will conduct revolutionary activity and become a professional revolutionary.

And where are you going to do that?

But the point is, despite your ridiculous ambitions, that if you leave school with nothing, then your state of living will reflect that fact.

Led Zeppelin

30th June 2005, 21:26

And where are you going to do that?

In Iran. (if it is too dangerous for me to be there i will work for an Iranian party outside Iran, probably in Russia)

Invader Zim

30th June 2005, 21:39

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 30 2005, 09:26 PM

And where are you going to do that?

In Iran. (if it is too dangerous for me to be there i will work for an Iranian party outside Iran, probably in Russia)
Then you are doomed to failure, if anything it seams that Iran is set to become even more reactionary, the people do not want, nor are ready for revolutionary change.

Led Zeppelin

30th June 2005, 21:59

Your knowledge of Iran is close to nil.

The Communist movement of Iran is popular, it was the Communists who first started the attack against the Sjah's regime.

The Communist parties combined had millions of members in 1979 (during the revolution).

The Communist party that i support, the Fedaian, has about 500 to 1000 members. They have departments in over 20 countries. The Communists are the most powerfull political force at the moment.

I have been to Iran, and spoken to many people, most of them respected the Communists, but disliked the "democrats" and liberals for betraying them.

Western media (and Iranian media as well) like to portray an image of Iran as a fully islamic nation, a nation in which the people are backward religious idiots. Far from the truth, the majority of Iranians support secularism, the majority of Iranians oppose the current regime.

In fact i believe a revolution would have already happened in Iran if there was a strong political opponent to the current regime.

nor are ready for revolutionary change.

You are right, the people are not ready for revolutionary change, but why? Because there is not a political leader or party which is strong enough to take on the current regime.

Iranian politics needs a Lenin, and i would be happy to be that Lenin.

Sure i can be arrested, tortured, mutilated, but my life is of no importance, only the lives of the proletariat matter to me.

Entrails Konfetti

30th June 2005, 23:15

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 2 2005, 02:23 PM

Life isn't about being successful, it is about being alive.
Nice quote,you don't mind if I use that in my signature do you ?

I support what they are doing,I had problems in highschool too.I remember at one parent-staff meeting, they asked why don't you do your work or follow rules and I told them that whats the point,its my youth why I can't I enjoy it ?

I clashed many times with the staff during highschool and they were looking to provoke me,so finally at my 3rd year there,I decided to do homeschool.And I got 4 years of highschool done in 18 months. I was able to examine more closey the one-sidedness of the public systems history books, you know it was so fucked up about how something like the Monroe Doctrine which was created to protect NORTH American people against invasions was twisted around to protect anywhere near North America against those who threaten our corporate interested.The only way the book I read that looked to justify it claimed "times are a-changing!".

Invader Zim

1st July 2005, 23:46

Your knowledge of Iran is close to nil.

Actually, I think with a bit of research you will find that I am correct. But I doubt anyone will ever convince you, you are beyond help and advice.

You are right, the people are not ready for revolutionary change, but why? Because there is not a political leader or party which is strong enough to take on the current regime.

Well done, and if you realise that and the reasons behind this fact, then you will understand that it will take a lot more that the intervention of a few western youths to change that.

Led Zeppelin

2nd July 2005, 01:12

&nsbp;&nsbp;

Why do some members post this?

Actually, I think with a bit of research you will find that I am correct. But I doubt anyone will ever convince you, you are beyond help and advice.

Ok, tell me what you want me to do with my life.

Go back to school, finish school, get a job, get a house, get a car,marry some ugly women/female, have 2 children..... sorry, thats not the life for me.

Well done, and if you realise that and the reasons behind this fact, then you will understand that it will take a lot more that the intervention of a few western youths to change that.

You belong to that group of people who think that Marx, Engels, Lenin etc. were gods instead of normal human beings.

Sure, they were far ahead of their time, but every Communist is far ahead of his or her time. I could be the next Lenin, or i could be one of those thousands of revolutionaries who lost their lives before they gained fame, either way this is my duty as a Communist.

But

If i were in your shoes i would do the same as you are doing, i could be of no help in the US or Holland. (where i live) So i don't blame you for your rather ridiculous views.

Invader Zim

2nd July 2005, 13:58

Why do some members post this?

I assume its an error.

Ok, tell me what you want me to do with my life.

Not throw it away.

sorry, thats not the life for me.

What ever, but becoming a revolutionary in a hopeless attempt at revolution will simply mean that you have no life.

You belong to that group of people who think that Marx, Engels, Lenin etc. were gods instead of normal human beings.

No.

Sure, they were far ahead of their time, but every Communist is far ahead of his or her time.

No.

I could be the next Lenin, or i could be one of those thousands of revolutionaries who lost their lives before they gained fame, either way this is my duty as a Communist.

No.

Nobody has the right to go to a foreign country and try and enforce a revolution. Even Ernesto Guevara found out this was a mistake, to his cost.

So i don't blame you for your rather ridiculous views.

Ridiculous? I'm not the one with fanaticise of revolution in third world countries.

bunk

2nd July 2005, 15:00

Nobody has the right to go to a foreign country and try and enforce a revolution

Cuba was foreign to Ernesto, every country he attempted a revolution in was not his his birthplace

Hiero

2nd July 2005, 15:24

This thread has gone on for awhile, longer then i expected.

All i can say is that school can be really fun.

Face it, you have to go to school if you want to recognised as being educated. So you might as well cut the teachers some slack (they have a pretty stressfull job), have fun while your there and learn a thing or to.

School is not that bad, and when you get older you will find some of you teachers are your friends. You people are going way over the top.

Do you really want your memories of school as being some stuck up snooby prick who thinks he has got the whole system set out?

Also tell me this, what have you got to loss if you stay at school?

Led Zeppelin

2nd July 2005, 19:49

Also tell me this, what have you got to loss if you stay at school?

Valuable time.

Nobody has the right to go to a foreign country and try and enforce a revolution.

You misunderstand me, i dont want to go there like a retard and start shooting people.

I want to work for the party, organize strikes, spread papers, better known as party building. After that i will probably end up writing books, articles etc. become a Marxist theoretician. My parents were both Iranian, i can speak Iranian, so it is not a "foreign nation" for me. I thought Communists did not believe in imaginary borders?

[EDIT]

I assume its an error.

I have seen this error again in some other threads, can an admin please fix it.

Invader Zim

3rd July 2005, 00:24

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 03:00 PM

Nobody has the right to go to a foreign country and try and enforce a revolution

Cuba was foreign to Ernesto, every country he attempted a revolution in was not his his birthplace
And look what happened to him, i rather think he found out the hard way.

Nor did Ernesto force a revolution, he joined one.

Foreign nationals travelling to foreign countries unready for revolution, and trying to start one are clearly in the wrong, and more to the point signing a death warrent.

Hiero

3rd July 2005, 03:38

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 3 2005, 05:49 AM

Also tell me this, what have you got to loss if you stay at school?

Valuable time.

School doesn't take up that much time.

Organic Revolution

3rd July 2005, 06:40

Originally posted by Hiero+Jul 2 2005, 08:38 PM--> (Hiero @ Jul 2 2005, 08:38 PM)
Marxism-[email protected] 3 2005, 05:49 AM

Also tell me this, what have you got to loss if you stay at school?

Valuable time.

School doesn't take up that much time. [/b]
8 hours a day for 5 days a week.... for like 8 or 9 months is a long time to me.

redstar2000

4th July 2005, 03:51

&nsbp;&nsbp;

It's probably some obscure bug in the bowels of MySQL.

But if it shows up in your post, you can edit it out.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

JazzRemington

4th July 2005, 06:13

Wasn't this originally a sticky?

redstar2000

4th July 2005, 16:21

Yes, it was. We've been trying to "clean out" some of the old stickies lately. But if this particular thread stays popular for a few more weeks, we'll probably re-sticky it.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

getfreedropout

4th July 2005, 16:58

I'd rather have dignity than comfort.

getfreedropout

4th July 2005, 17:08

It's interesting how defensive many people get when youth start talking about deciding things for themselves and creating their own lives. I think they get defensive because most so-called revolutionaries really have no intention of resisting in the here and now, in everyday life. Most so-called revolutionaries are really just pushing some ideological racket or another and are not really down for destroying this system (though they would love jobs in some future leftist bureaucracy!).

I dare you to have more fun, to live more fully, and to strike deeper into the heart of this alienated world than me. If you're interested in burning this vile system to the ground and playing in the wreckage, please get in touch. If you're interested in defending schools, wage-labor, and reformism, fear for your way of living.

Jersey Devil

4th July 2005, 17:52

No, we get this way because your a 12 year old pretending to know things about life.

novemba

4th July 2005, 19:04

I'm so sick of your internet yapping.

Look, follow whatever you think is in your heart. That's the best way to go through life. And those who disagree, fine, if you want to go through life differently, then please do so, but one thing is for sure, yapping about how your life should be on the internet is just wasting it, so get off your asses and do something. please.

Led Zeppelin

4th July 2005, 19:19

yapping about how your life should be on the internet is just wasting it

Yeah, your right.

Typing something on a internet message board, which takes about 5 minutes is indeed wasting your life. :rolleyes:

novemba

4th July 2005, 19:33

I wish your smart ass would make half as much effort advancing the revolution as you do pissing people off on this board.

Organic Revolution

4th July 2005, 19:41

Originally posted by Jersey [email protected] 4 2005, 10:52 AM
No, we get this way because your a 12 year old pretending to know things about life.
why dont you shut up and take in what other people have to say.

novemba

4th July 2005, 19:44

Agreed. <_<

getfreedropout

4th July 2005, 19:45

Originally posted by Jersey [email protected] 4 2005, 04:52 PM
No, we get this way because your a 12 year old pretending to know things about life.
"You're" not "Your"

I am not 12 years old, and being a highschool dropout myself, I'm writing directly from experience. If you actually want to present a critique of my ideas instead of sending stupid insults, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

novemba

4th July 2005, 19:49

getfreedropout, IM sometime >>> STREETasmyCanvas, I'd like to discuss a project I'm planning with you if you're interested.

novemba

4th July 2005, 19:51

you too rise up.

Led Zeppelin

4th July 2005, 19:56

I wish your smart ass would make half as much effort advancing the revolution as you do pissing people off on this board.

The only person i have "pissed off" on this board is you. Do you call that making an effort? I don't. :lol:

Organic Revolution

4th July 2005, 19:59

necro hit me up on yahoo IM at youthliberationcrew. i would be happy to discuss anything with you.

Invader Zim

5th July 2005, 19:17

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 04:58 PM
I'd rather have dignity than comfort.
If you really were writing from experience, you would know that you are chatting shit.

There is no dignity living on minimum wage, or queuing up for jiro packets.

Organic Revolution

5th July 2005, 19:38

there is dignity in saying 'enough is enough' and living life and not having a a system or state tell you what to do.

Invader Zim

5th July 2005, 20:11

Originally posted by rise [email protected] 5 2005, 07:38 PM
there is dignity in saying 'enough is enough' and living life and not having a a system or state tell you what to do.
How very naive, either way you are doing what the state or society wants you to do. You can either do it more comftably, or less. Only an idiot would choose the later, and think its anything to do with dignity.

Organic Revolution

5th July 2005, 21:14

Originally posted by Enigma+Jul 5 2005, 01:11 PM--> (Enigma @ Jul 5 2005, 01:11 PM)
rise [email protected] 5 2005, 07:38 PM
there is dignity in saying 'enough is enough' and living life and not having a a system or state tell you what to do.
How very naive, either way you are doing what the state or society wants you to do. You can either do it more comftably, or less. Only an idiot would choose the later, and think its anything to do with dignity. [/b]
not true. you dont have to act how the state wants you to, we do it every day, by opposing capitalism. it is naive to think that we are not engaging in active resistance.

Invader Zim

5th July 2005, 22:01

Originally posted by rise up+Jul 5 2005, 09:14 PM--> (rise up @ Jul 5 2005, 09:14 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 01:11 PM

rise [email protected] 5 2005, 07:38 PM
there is dignity in saying 'enough is enough' and living life and not having a a system or state tell you what to do.
How very naive, either way you are doing what the state or society wants you to do. You can either do it more comftably, or less. Only an idiot would choose the later, and think its anything to do with dignity.
not true. you dont have to act how the state wants you to, we do it every day, by opposing capitalism. it is naive to think that we are not engaging in active resistance. [/b]
By dropping out of school, how are you resisting capitalism? if anything you are supporting it, as Capitalism relies upon the basis of cheep labour and exploitation.

In fact, how are you resisting captalism, period?

Organic Revolution

5th July 2005, 22:16

dropping out of school is only one part of resistance. going to a public school, they are paid to teach there state indocturinated bullshit.

novemba

6th July 2005, 05:01

I love this thread cause it shows which ones of you bastards are the real leftists and which ones are the reactionaries who still slave over a system they secretly love.

By dropping out of school, how are you resisting capitalism? if anything you are supporting it, as Capitalism relies upon the basis of cheep labour and exploitation.

In fact, how are you resisting captalism, period?

They fucking brainswash us my friend. They fucking brainwash us. Have you read A Peoples History of the United States? Or what about Everything Your Teachers Didn't Want You to Know? They are fucking brainwashing us so we feel comfortable living in their system, and we live our lives the way that want us to, most benefical to them. This isn't just in our society. Any 'communist' country that has every existed in the world as of yet has done the same thing. Taught the kids to except the system. We'll we don't wanna learn that anymore. We wanna learn toleration and co-operation, not whos wrong and whos right, and if history is gonna spend so much time on the past, THERE SHOULD BE MAJOR EMPHASIS ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE FUTURE BECAUSE OF IT.

getfreedropout

7th July 2005, 23:19

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:17 PM
There is no dignity living on minimum wage, or queuing up for jiro packets.
There is no dignity in going to school for hours everyday to be force-fed shit.

I don't want to get in a pissing match with you, but I live on $7.50 an hour, working 40 hour weeks. As I move forward, I work on making a more and more decisive break from this world.

Pawn Power

7th July 2005, 23:56

By dropping out of school, how are you resisting capitalism? if anything you are supporting it, as Capitalism relies upon the basis of cheep labour and exploitation.

In fact, how are you resisting captalism, period?

Schools, in the US, are designed to produce ‘proper’ participants for its capitalistic society. This is done by teaching students to submit to authority and obey the rules. American schools first priority is to generate conformity, education comes second. This is done with common practices such as; the rehearsed pledge of allegiance, hall passes, and strict schedules enforced with bells, and detentions for disobedience. This creates well behaved drones ready to work in the capitalist system.

How very naive, either way you are doing what the state or society wants you to do. You can either do it more comftably, or less. Only an idiot would choose the later, and think its anything to do with dignity.
If you relate dignity with comfort then you are very oblivious. People chose different lives for different reasons and I do not think you are in a position to judge what is dignified and what is not. I would not have expected a statement like this from you. It that type of view that plays into the capitalist method of society.

novemba

8th July 2005, 02:03

education comes second

I wasn't aware it was on the agenda at all!

Pawn Power

8th July 2005, 04:40

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 08:03 PM

education comes second

I wasn't aware it was on the agenda at all!
haha yeah, you might be right.

Thomas

8th July 2005, 04:44

Education serves to educate and help our developement, there's no problem with us getting educated. Because we know to question and disbelieve various parts of our schools/colleges agenda's.

It's the people who willingly submit to and believe the education who need to remove themselves from it, but they have no reason to do this. This is why we must remain at education, to inform these people of the choices they have, and when we do manage to make them question the text books, they can continue their education with the awareness to "question everything".

Organic Revolution

8th July 2005, 18:51

Ending Compulsory Education
Some observations about schools

The current school system cannot be reformed. It must be abolished
The teachers aren't necessarily your enemy Yeah, some teachers can suck big time, but most of them are as much prisoners of the system as you are. Some of them were very idealistic when they started out as teachers, but they changed as they became sucked into the WAY THINGS ARE ALWAYS DONE.
There is no need for principals and administrators
Even if you were interested in reforming the system, they aren't needed. The management of the school could be done by a collective of teachers whose membership changed every year and students would have representation. Of course, do we really need SCHOOLS to learn?
Exams, class periods, tardiness, and clocks have nothing to do with the learning process
This is something that every student knows in their gut. The educational system's fascination with clocks and schedules and grades exists for one reason: to break the wills of kids so that they can be inserted into the modern workplace. Spending years of your young life in flourescent-lit classrooms only prepares you for life in office cubicles, where you have no free speech, you have to ask to go to the potty, and the boss rules by whim.
There ARE alternatives to the current system and they've existed for almost a century

Invader Zim

9th July 2005, 00:16

Originally posted by getfreedropout+Jul 7 2005, 11:19 PM--> (getfreedropout @ Jul 7 2005, 11:19 PM)
[email protected] 5 2005, 06:17 PM
There is no dignity living on minimum wage, or queuing up for jiro packets.
There is no dignity in going to school for hours everyday to be force-fed shit.

I don't want to get in a pissing match with you, but I live on $7.50 an hour, working 40 hour weeks. As I move forward, I work on making a more and more decisive break from this world. [/b]
There is no dignity in going to school for hours everyday to be force-fed shit.

You are not being force fed anything, you don't have to accept anything you are told. By the way, for someone who claims to be doing a shitty job, then you would know that school is a complete party compared to actual work.

dropping out of school is only one part of resistance.

Wrong, its not part of any resistance, its allowing your self to be fucked over by people who are out to rip you off. If you are unequipped to deal with the way capitalist life is, you will fall further victim to the system you proclaim to be trying to resist.

Have you read A Peoples History of the United States? Or what about Everything Your Teachers Didn't Want You to Know?

I don't need too, nobody with even the intellectual capability of a goldfish needs to have it explained that certain pertinent facts are ignored in education.

If you relate dignity with comfort then you are very oblivious.

If you relate dignity to working a shit, difficult, monotonous, backbreaking job for next too no money, on principal, then you are the one oblivious to reality.

People chose different lives for different reasons and I do not think you are in a position to judge what is dignified and what is not.

Tell me, have you ever done a job with little pay and a high level of physical labour? Have you met or worked with people who have spent years on the dole? I am more than justified in explaining a few home truths to people, who clearly have no idea what you life is really life when you leave school.

Again, there is no more dignity in minimum wage or the dole than there is dignity in working a 9 to 5 behind a computer. But the pay is damn better with the latter.

I would not have expected a statement like this from you.

Why's that? I have seen the unfairness of capitalism first hand and I'm going to be damned if I let my self be any more of a victim than I need to be.

But if you care so much more about dignity than money, then move to Sub-Saharan Africa and live in a shanty town, and witness the real bottom rung of capitalism, if you don’t you are exactly the same dignity as the business analyst on £300,000 P.A., just less money.

novemba

9th July 2005, 00:34

Organic Revolution

10th July 2005, 20:38

Modern day schooling is an inherently oppressive system used to keep the youth from working towards any real change. From an early age we are all taught uniformity and obedience and the concepts are drilled in our heads for years afterwards. As we progress into the capitalist “real world,” we have already been ingrained with the skills necessary to make profit and live under managers. The school system uses many tools in order to keep down the natural tendencies of children.
For twelve years kids are stuck in small chairs bolted to even smaller desks. Everyone has one, and there is rarely ever an empty seat anywhere. They can’t sit on the floor or anywhere else for fear of being punished. Assigned seats are a must during the first few years of school, but after awhile the rule fades away. They will still sit down in the seats that they chose in the beginning because they’ve become comfortable with the same chair, the same view, and the same two butt cracks from either side. When a trainer wants to train a young elephant, he clamps a strong chain to the elephants leg and stakes that into the ground so that the elephant can only walk in a small circle. He struggles and fights against the chain, but eventually learns to accept it. Even when the elephant can easily rip the stake out of the ground, he continues to walk in the same circle that he grew up with. In the rigid positions set by their teachers, children feel trapped within their seats. When sitting in their chairs, they are no longer being lectured to; they’re being lectured at. A student that cannot move his legs or stretch his arms will struggle to move out, paying less attention to the lesson and more attention to his left leg bobbing up and down. Is it impossible to replace the chairs and hard tile with soft carpeting so that the kids can sit down? Better yet, the outdoors provide us with all the seating arrangements we need. These sterile indoor environments create too much of a dent in a child’s natural progress to be used in the way it is today.
Students are slaves to the bell. A time to enter, a time to leave, a time to eat, and a time to rush to class. They follow the same routine day after day. The system has gotten to the point that kids see periods as blocks of time; when they finish their first class, they are that much closer to getting to the last class. The modern education system has been brought down to children waiting for the next period to come, so that they can wait for the next period in that room. Teachers are forced to cram an entire lesson into one short period when it would normally take a whole week. Some teachers stretch short lesson plans into entire periods with unnecessary busy work. If the teacher could dismiss the children when the class ended, there would be no pressure to stretch a class and waste time that could be spent on real education. Students cannot stay longer with their teachers after class, even if it is needed; they might miss a little bit of their gym class or lunch time. In many parts around the world, where their education has not been tainted by our system, students come and go as they please. Teachers set a date and time that they are going to be somewhere, and the students gather around him and listen. He goes on as long as he needs to, and the audience pays attention to all of it and takes notes diligently. It may be far less efficient than our system, but having less classes where the students give all their attention is far more positive than an institution where people pay more attention to the clock than the teacher. The current grading system is an inefficient way of showing a students progress and of encouraging education. In the modern education system grades have far more importance than education. As long as a student passes his class with a D, he is fine to move on to his next class.
Teachers, parents, and students are all pressured to keep the student going from one grade to the next, with no pauses in between. If a teacher cannot get a student through his course in the allotted time, he will get a bad review from his superiors and the parents. If the parent can’t force the child through to the next grade, it is extremely shameful on his part. Students force their way to the next grade so that they aren’t considered ’slow’ by their peers and parents. We rush children through the public education system so quickly that they learn far less than they could. A kid that earns a D in his elementary math class will move on, but he won’t know what he is doing in his Algebra, Geometry, and Calculus classes later on. The grading system encourages cheating and plagiarism, which is very counter-progressive in the modern education system. Aside from the few over achievers, the grading scale doesn’t encourage students to work any harder. A slacker can pass the class just as well as the valedictorian, but with much less effort. The less effort that they put into the class and the less attention they have to pay means that the student will get far less education. Anyone, given the time and motivation, can write an ‘A’ paper. We encourage people to work hard on papers instead of to show what they know. A student can write a five page paper on nothing at all and get his grade, or he could stretch his mind and write on something that he enjoys writing about with no limit. Nobody wants to work for hours only to receive a single letter on an arbitrary scale. A letter cannot tell a student what he needs to improve, only that his paper was either high on a scale or low on a scale. This completely takes away from a student’s sense of achievement, getting him used to receiving ridiculous rewards for difficult tasks.
Modern education is a huge drain on today’s society. It cannot be reformed or changed; it can only be destroyed and then replaced by something different. The problems that have turned modern education into an oppressive system are things which are necessary for the social control and obedience needed in the capitalist world.

figured i would just throw this in here.. not to take up space.

redstar2000

11th July 2005, 05:53

Originally posted by rise up
Is it impossible to replace the chairs and hard tile with soft carpeting so that the kids can sit down? Better yet, the outdoors provide us with all the seating arrangements we need. These sterile indoor environments create too much of a dent in a child’s natural progress to be used in the way it is today.

I often wondered during my school years if physical discomfort was just an accidental by-product of a crappy system or if it was, in some sense, deliberate.

School desks are atrociously uncomfortable to sit in for more than a few moments...one squirms from one position to another in a hopeless effort to relieve the pressures of sitting on a small slab of wood. Even ordinary tables and chairs would be an improvement.

Was this to "keep us awake" for lessons that would otherwise put us to sleep?

I remember schoolrooms that were freezing cold or stiflingly hot...could no one figure out how to use the thermostats properly? Or was this to get us used to the modern office/factory/warehouse, etc.?

Are school "lunchrooms" still as bad as they were in my day? Inedible "food", a horrible stench, and hideous cacophony? To make the employee cafeteria seem like paradise by comparison?

Were the persons responsible just hopeless incompetents? Did they imagine that kids would not prefer a pleasant environment to something closer to a prison?

Or did they think that physical discomfort was a good "learning tool"?

More than 40 years afterwards, I still don't know the answer to that one.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

violencia.Proletariat

11th July 2005, 06:02

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 11:53 PM

I remember schoolrooms that were freezing cold or stiflingly hot...could no one figure out how to use the thermostats properly? Or was this to get us used to the modern office/factory/warehouse, etc.?

the teachers dont usually have control over the thermestat, its all controlled in the office

Organic Revolution

11th July 2005, 16:22

Originally posted by nate+Jul 10 2005, 11:02 PM--> (nate @ Jul 10 2005, 11:02 PM)
[email protected] 10 2005, 11:53 PM

I remember schoolrooms that were freezing cold or stiflingly hot...could no one figure out how to use the thermostats properly? Or was this to get us used to the modern office/factory/warehouse, etc.?

the teachers dont usually have control over the thermestat, its all controlled in the office [/b]
and the folks in the office know that they got to keep the kids awake.

novemba

11th July 2005, 21:05

and the worst part is all the nice private/alternative schools cost money, so I could never go...

I don't need too, nobody with even the intellectual capability of a goldfish needs to have it explained that certain pertinent facts are ignored in education.

So you know they feed you bullshit, don't you wanna know what really happened? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when someones lying to me, and I know theyre lying, I wanna find out the truth....or maybe thats just me....or better yet maybe I don't even have the 'intellectual capability of a goldfish'...

Hiero

12th July 2005, 10:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:34 AM

Ending Compulsory Education
Some observations about schools

The current school system cannot be reformed. It must be abolished
The teachers aren't necessarily your enemy Yeah, some teachers can suck big time, but most of them are as much prisoners of the system as you are. Some of them were very idealistic when they started out as teachers, but they changed as they became sucked into the WAY THINGS ARE ALWAYS DONE.
There is no need for principals and administrators
Even if you were interested in reforming the system, they aren't needed. The management of the school could be done by a collective of teachers whose membership changed every year and students would have representation. Of course, do we really need SCHOOLS to learn?
Exams, class periods, tardiness, and clocks have nothing to do with the learning process
This is something that every student knows in their gut. The educational system's fascination with clocks and schedules and grades exists for one reason: to break the wills of kids so that they can be inserted into the modern workplace. Spending years of your young life in flourescent-lit classrooms only prepares you for life in office cubicles, where you have no free speech, you have to ask to go to the potty, and the boss rules by whim.
There ARE alternatives to the current system and they've existed for almost a century

Karl Marx would be proud. Sounds like the manifesto applied to everyday thought, or in this situation our school system...thats exactly the type of thinking i like

bump to rise up
What would you know.

Karl Marx went all the way through school up to Universtiy level.

dropping out of school is only one part of resistance. going to a public school, they are paid to teach there state indocturinated bullshit.

You didn't answer the question. You do know there will be school in a socialist society?

I love this thread cause it shows which ones of you bastards are the real leftists and which ones are the reactionaries who still slave over a system they secretly love.

Or thoose who want to be pathetic revolutionaries and claim how liberated they are because they are a 14-16 year old who droped out of high school because the teachers were brainwashing them, and thoose who are being realsitic about the whole situation.

This whole thread is bullshit, the whole idea is bullshit and petty bourgioese.

Led Zeppelin

12th July 2005, 10:34

the whole idea is bullshit and petty bourgioese.

Actually it is well known that people of the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois class almost always go to school or have had an education at a school.

People of the working class on the other hand, historically have been the ones who did not go to school.

People like Kalinin had no time to go to school, instead they had to work for a living.

Anyway, this whole issue is stupid, here it is not necessary to go to school to receive your diploma. You can study at home to get it, actually i think in the US you can also study at home.

Obviously you have to study capitalist idiocy in history and economy classes, but you should cope with it for the sake of a diploma.

redstar2000

12th July 2005, 14:26

Originally posted by Hiero
You do know there will be school in a socialist society?

Education in a Communist Society (http://redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082767212&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Hiero

13th July 2005, 02:41

People of the working class on the other hand, historically have been the ones who did not go to school.

Yeah but these people want to leave so they can rebel.

You can study at home to get it, actually i think in the US you can also study at home.

You still study the same thing, the only difference you dont get the interaction experince. This is of course where alot of behavior is taught for future life.

Redstar that doesn't really prove anything.

The same way we would smash the captialist state to replace it with the transient socialist, we would replace the capitalist school system with a socialist one. I can't see any reason why we would not have classes, principals, adminstration etc the only different we would teach rather then individual success, what the individual can offer to the collective society. Something based much on schools in Maoist China.

Marx said that in Communist the highest stage, people would move from job to job and learn the trades. This requires higher levels of study like colleges and University.

Anarchist Freedom

13th July 2005, 02:57

You know in all my years of schooling. The more years I spend in school the easier it is to fucking sleep and do nothing. Just like the lessons get more repetetive the students are still taking it all. I always fail in school because I never do my homework because Of the little time I have off school. But I do well on the tests. Fucking teachers. <_<

novemba

13th July 2005, 03:23

I think school should be more of an inner voyage than them teaching you things they need you to know...if you wanna study whatever, they should let you study whatever, and when you turn 16 or 18 you have to start studying/apprenticing with someone in a field youre looking into...with a few requirements so people will actually learn, but i see school more as a library with optional workshop/classroom environments rather than a place youre bused to every day for 180 days a year....

Led Zeppelin

13th July 2005, 03:54

Yeah but these people want to leave so they can rebel.

I don't go to school because i dislike it, does that mean that i am also "rebelling"?

BTW, i still have to go to school for another year, but since i am obliged to go i will, even though i hate it.

This is of course where alot of behavior is taught for future life.

I think you already know how to "behave" at the age of 16.

black magick hustla

16th July 2005, 21:46

You see, most of you live in FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES, where dropping out doesn't necessarily starves you to death. 6 dollars per hour is a pretty damn good salary here.

Here in Mexico, dropping out means having a wage of 4 dollars PER DAY. Even here, four dollars per day is fucking nothing, especially when you have a family to support. Four dollars per day means living off tortillas and beans through all your life. I don't find ANYTHING revolutionary in it. Sure you can have your own PROLETARIAN dignity, but I assure you, when you live in that status, most of the time you would not care alot of rebelling.

Don't misinterpret me, I fucking hate schools. I hate how they try to convert me into a MINDLESS DRONE and suck out of me anything radical that I have. However I do live in a capitalist society, and the only way to comform there norms, in order to have a quality life, is studying at school. Even with all their reactionary bullshit they spout, they teach me MATHS, BIOLOGY AND LINGUISTICS. So yeah, they are not that useless at all.

While I would adore AN OPEN SCHOOL, lead by students, I wouldn't be very entuthiastic of sending my kids there unless they show some type of love for learning. I live under the capitalist yolk, So I do want my children to get a degree and have quality lives, so I need to comply to the capitalist norms right now.

I do believe that "LMAO OUR FASCIST PARENTS" need to be a bit authoriitarian with us. I remember that once at school CHAOS SUDDENLY EMERGED because some faggots were pissed off because we didn't celebrate a holiday. I don't really believe that THEY WOULD STUDY BY THEMSELVES if given the chance. I am all for our parents having relative control on us, until we are of sufficient age to actually taste the real world.

I am an anarchist though, If capitalism would suddenly be abolished, I would be all for ths type of school system to be abolished. I wouldn't worry for my kids not studying, because they wouldn't starve in such an egalitarian society. I am also for everyone having an equal "wage" (I don't believe in wage slavery, but you know what I mean) regardless of them being janitors or ENGINEERS IN MECHATRONICS. However, I do live in the capitalist system right now, so I can only hope.

getfreedropout

17th August 2005, 04:52

As schools open up again around the US, I think this is a good time to 'bump' this thread.

I hope more youth and students can find www.getfreedropout.tk and other sites like it to start finding alternatives and resistance to the school system.

KrazyRabidSheep

17th August 2005, 05:15

Don't take this personaly, but how does this anti-school campaign differ from the Khmer Rouge?

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

17th August 2005, 22:46

:o

Could you like even name a resemblance?

Organic Revolution

17th August 2005, 22:50

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 10:33 PM
Don't take this personaly, but how does this anti-school campaign differ from the Khmer Rouge?
how would it be the same?

getfreedropout

18th August 2005, 00:34

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 04:33 AM
Don't take this personaly, but how does this anti-school campaign differ from the Khmer Rouge?
Well, we weren't planning on killing half the population and forcing those remaining to wear black robes and grow rice, but now that you mention it we might just go ahead and do that. We'll make sure to kill you first.

Organic Revolution

18th August 2005, 05:00

woo... then lets destroy all technology.

Ultra-Violence

18th August 2005, 05:06

i believe we should stay in school talking to all comies be cause we have to be ready to defend our selves from cappies all the time and we can defend our selves with our greates tool KNOWLEDGE!

:hammer:

Organic Revolution

18th August 2005, 05:07

Originally posted by Ultra-[email protected] 17 2005, 10:24 PM
i believe we should stay in school talking to all comies be cause we have to be ready to defend our selves from cappies all the time and we can defend our selves with our greates tool KNOWLEDGE!

:hammer:
knowledge? what is calculus gonna do for you when your trying to feed your kids?

red_orchestra

18th August 2005, 08:13

I completely disagree. Giving up is stupid... just because your school is right-wing doesn't mean you can't learn from boneheads and then come up with your own theories dude. Remember, knowledge is freedom...and it can be used ANYWAY you want. Droping out of school won't do shit for you!

Organic Revolution

18th August 2005, 14:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 01:31 AM
I completely disagree. Giving up is stupid... just because your school is right-wing doesn't mean you can't learn from boneheads and then come up with your own theories dude. Remember, knowledge is freedom...and it can be used ANYWAY you want. Droping out of school won't do shit for you!
so being institutionalised for 12 years, without choice, is a good idea. no its not. you can drop out get out on your own and learn things you need to survive.

red_orchestra

19th August 2005, 08:02

I'm not antischool...i'll never be. I believe education is something you make of it. Sure,, some people learn better on their own but without certificates and grad papers the world won't open the doors for you. Its that whole "status" thing, again. Well educated Communists can perforate even the toughest institutions... as I said knowledge is a weapons as it is a constructive tool.

Organic Revolution

19th August 2005, 15:56

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 01:20 AM
I'm not antischool...i'll never be. I believe education is something you make of it. Sure,, some people learn better on their own but without certificates and grad papers the world won't open the doors for you. Its that whole "status" thing, again. Well educated Communists can perforate even the toughest institutions... as I said knowledge is a weapons as it is a constructive tool.
but if you live your life, you dont need fancy jobs with fancy papers that proclaim your status in the world.

Ultra-Violence

19th August 2005, 20:43

knowledge? what is calculus gonna do for you when your trying to feed your kids?

calculus can do a lot of things thier are a number of careers in math and i think that ansers your qeustion!

come buddy school is very important you just cant through away an opurtunity givin to you like that look at countries around the world were they dont have public schools the kids wanna learn cause thats thier only future!

Stay in school kids! :hammer:

guerillablack

19th August 2005, 21:09

Hey, if they wanna drop out let them. They romanticize the revolution so much so that they aren't going to be an important element in its manifestation.

Eastside Revolt

19th August 2005, 23:40

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 08:27 PM
Hey, if they wanna drop out let them. They romanticize the revolution so much so that they aren't going to be an important element in its manifestation.
How is it romanticisng to not want to edure propaganda classes, and being babysat?

May I remind you that they still advise people to get their GED's.

TheReadMenace

22nd August 2005, 03:05

Originally posted by Revolution is the [email protected] 7 2005, 05:58 PM
Great site, wish I found it while I was in high school.
Man, I couldn't agree more.

Andrew

Organic Revolution

22nd August 2005, 03:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 02:27 PM
Hey, if they wanna drop out let them. They romanticize the revolution so much so that they aren't going to be an important element in its manifestation.
important part of the revolution? everyone is important in the revolution. or are you talking about being a overlord vanguardist leader.

RandomRival

25th August 2005, 03:06

I keep trying to debate wether My comrades here our intelligent but threads like this make me question if you guys are really as smart as I try to credit you with.

If it was not for school, I would have never taken goverment and learned about communism and that Anarchy is silly and for gothic kids.

Face it man, Humans are to uneducated as it is, and Anarchy along with it? HA!

Camarada

25th August 2005, 03:15

IMO I don't think anyone on this board should drop out.

Decolonize The Left

25th August 2005, 03:16

I haven't read anything other than the last post of this thread which I wish to comment on:

If it was not for school, I would have never taken goverment and learned about communism and that Anarchy is silly and for gothic kids.

But you claiming anarchy is "silly and for gothic kids" shows that you learned little to nothing about anarchism at all. It also refutes any statement that you learned anything in school as it is totally ignorant and simplistic.

Face it man, Humans are to uneducated as it is, and Anarchy along with it? HA!

Whoa, nice grammar there pal, and spelling too... man you must have been a real scholar!

-- August

Organic Revolution

25th August 2005, 03:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 08:24 PM
If it was not for school, I would have never taken goverment and learned about communism and that Anarchy is silly and for gothic kids.
god isnt it wonderful what school will teach you?.. what a great communist we have here.

Ownthink

25th August 2005, 03:30

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 10:24 PM
I keep trying to debate wether My comrades here our intelligent but threads like this make me question if you guys are really as smart as I try to credit you with.

If it was not for school, I would have never taken goverment and learned about communism and that Anarchy is silly and for gothic kids.

Face it man, Humans are to uneducated as it is, and Anarchy along with it? HA!
You've GOT to be shitting me. This is your 3rd retarded ass post in a day. First, you explain you're religious CATHOLIC OF ALL RELIGIONS and that you are also somehow a Communist. Then, you say that the person questioning capitalist laws regulating something as natural as sex is a "fascist and should be shot", and now you say anarchy is for "silly goth kids"?

I stand by my original claim that you're a fucking idiot.

Organic Revolution

25th August 2005, 03:39

im not a goth.

novemba

25th August 2005, 03:45

^^^I beg to differ :lol:

anomaly

25th August 2005, 04:03

School started today for me, and my economics teacher handed us a pretest that contained two very large lies about communism and socialism (you probably know thel ies I'm referring to...the usual ones...USSR was communist, communism equals tyranny, etc.). Should I say anything about this blatant lying? Or should I simply accept that this is a capitalist economics course?

Ownthink

25th August 2005, 04:07

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:21 PM
School started today for me, and my economics teacher handed us a pretest that contained two very large lies about communism and socialism (you probably know thel ies I'm referring to...the usual ones...USSR was communist, communism equals tyranny, etc.). Should I say anything about this blatant lying? Or should I simply accept that this is a capitalist economics course?
You're shitting me? What a surprise, heh. No, you SHOULD say something. Challenge your teacher on what THEY think. See how stupid they are.

novemba

25th August 2005, 04:16

But don't make yourself be an enemy of the people, or the class. Make good strong points and simply say that when stalin took power the USSR was already well on its way of being a bueracratic state. Explain that it wasn't an example of communism and explain to them what real communism is in actuality. Also make sure to get the point across that the USSR became state-capitalized, in other words the people made money for the state instead of themselves. Tell them about the Paris Commune and that it was the only short-lived example of true communism.

...and then tell your teacher to shut the fuck up if she doesn't know what shes/hes talking about. :angry: :lol: :P

Decolonize The Left

25th August 2005, 07:40

Well put.

Be clear and concise.
Don't go overboard.
Stay to the point and be confident (after all you are correct).
And then say politely that you don't appreciate someone who claims to be a teacher of economics to advocate lying as a school policy and that it is detrimental to student's health. :)

Good luck.
In solidarity,
-- August

Hiero

25th August 2005, 10:31

Tell them about the Paris Commune and that it was the only short-lived example of true communism.

It wasn't an example of Communism. They still had class and so still had a state. It was rather a proleteriat state, but it failed. The Paris commune is an example of what to do and what not to do with the revolution.

novemba

25th August 2005, 18:25

can you please elaborate? maybe in a new thread in history?

anomaly

26th August 2005, 02:49

Eh, you needn't worry. The teacher himself hasn't said anything remotely similar to what was on the CRT test. It's a standardized test, so we can all see that this is simply the school corporation protecting capitalism.

Kez

26th August 2005, 10:25

This really isnt a productive idea.

So you drop out of school and....start teaching yourself. Great.

First Off, you lose the amount of time your in contact with other students, this means they will listen to radical views less, and more to the teachers who are misinforming us on a daily basis. 1-0 to the capitalists

Secondly, how do you expect to learn everything they learn in school which isnt politically related. Do you intend to steal bunsen burners and electrolysis machines to take to the woods in your commune? How are you going to use it?

Thirdly, how do you expect to get a job without qualifications? We live in a capitalist society, you cannot isolate yourself, and build a revolution from outside the capitalist society, one day jumping out from the woods and going "weeey, check this, lets revolt man". People will tell you to fuck off, and rightly so. We need to be working side by side with workers to be able to intervene against the capitalists in strikes, in protests, in discussions. Everything doesnt work through the internet you know comrade.

This is quite a secterian approach, not only because you avoid the mass organisations of people (such as Student Unions, Trade Unions), but you avoid mankind as a whole. Not the best approach for building a revolution.

Led Zeppelin

26th August 2005, 10:32

The people who argue in favor of school in this thread are probably all part of the "popular" clique at their school.

novemba

26th August 2005, 22:55

hahahahahhahaha.

moskvax

27th August 2005, 11:26

I was in my final year of high school this year and I dropped out in May (where I live, the school year starts at the start of February and ends half way through December). I dropped out for a few reasons, but a big one was that I was forced to learn things that are completely irrelevant to my interests, and this was limiting my education. Why should I learn what the government sees fit for me to learn when I know there are just so many things more worthwhile in the world?

I'm fascinated with both computer science and philosophy. A few weeks before I dropped out I had a huge list of textbooks on both topics on my Amazon.com wishlist, initially believing that there was no other way to read these books short of begging my parents to buy a few or getting a crappy job somewhere to earn enough to buy them. After I had the list of books I wanted to read, I told my mum about it, and she suggested to me that I check out the library of the only university in this town. At first I thought there was no chance it would have anything I wanted (this university has a pretty bad reputation), but I went there and was totally shocked. It had almost everything off my list and heaps more that I'd never read or even heard of but as soon as I examined them I wanted to read them. I started reading the first volume of Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming and couldn't put it down, until the point he explains Euclid's algorithm in set theoretic terms, at which point I put it down and started reading a book on set theory ^_^. I left that day with Paul Halmos' Naive Set Theory, and Heidegger's Being and Time. The next day after school, I started reading Heidegger, and that was the end; I lost whatever scrap of motivation I still had to go to school so I could dedicate my life to decoding Heidegger's metaphysics and the world of set theory. I never finished either of those books (<_<) but I did get through about 200 pages of Heidegger in two weeks before I had to return it. Ever since then I have been almost a hermit at that library, just reading and studying things that I am interested in.

What is in these books is just so far removed from the painstakingly tedious bullshit of what I was going through at school. At the point I dropped out I felt like it was just wrong to go through the system with my mediocre grades and end up being refused admission to all the universities I wanted to enter, when there was stuff like this sitting around begging to be read. I suppose the bottom line was that I couldn't willingly deprive myself of an education that I know is so much better for me than what I was being offered at school.

However, now I have a different opinion, and I plan to finish my final year next year at a different school. I suppose my visions for my own education were unrealistic for me to carry out by myself, and I now see more value in going to university. I don't regret dropping out, and I hope I won't regret going back next year.

I'm a relative newbie to real left wing politics and socialist theory/practice (but I want to learn more =D), so I don't have a point tailored for their specific agendas; my point was that I fucking hated school, so I dropped out, and my life somehow isn't completely fucked. I know that there must be a better system though, for school, but also for the whole of society, and this is where I start to take interest in socialism. I never had an interest in left wing politics (or politics at all for that matter) before I left school, but after spending time out of it, I am now haunted by the spectre of communism. ;)

So I would say in my case, 1-0 to the socialists :D

guerillablack

27th August 2005, 16:01

Your life isn't completly fucked because you still live with your mom. How long you expect to live there?Until the revolution!?ERU$*

Organic Revolution

27th August 2005, 16:09

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 09:19 AM
Your life isn't completly fucked because you still live with your mom. How long you expect to live there?Until the revolution!?ERU$*
where does it say he lives with his mom?

EnragÃ©

27th August 2005, 16:12

Originally posted by organic [email protected] 1 2005, 08:08 PM
Chances are, if you are young and politically active, then you are harrased at school. what is the solution? ignore, or fight back? i say fight back and drop out of the brain wash camp your a forced into every day 5 days a week. for more info on this go to
Getfreedropout.tk (http://Getfreedropout.tk)
im not harrassed. I have actually had quite interesting discussions regarding marxism/revolution etc with both my history teacher ("capitalism certainly doesnt work, communism doesnt either, we should think of something new") as well as my philosophy teacher ("im not so convinced of that argument "man is inherently evil and thus communism cannot exist", perhaps communism would work").

Organic Revolution

27th August 2005, 16:17

Originally posted by NewKindOfSoldier+Aug 27 2005, 09:30 AM--> (NewKindOfSoldier @ Aug 27 2005, 09:30 AM)
organic [email protected] 1 2005, 08:08 PM
Chances are, if you are young and politically active, then you are harrased at school. what is the solution? ignore, or fight back? i say fight back and drop out of the brain wash camp your a forced into every day 5 days a week. for more info on this go to
Getfreedropout.tk (http://Getfreedropout.tk)
im not harrassed. I have actually had quite interesting discussions regarding marxism/revolution etc with both my history teacher ("capitalism certainly doesnt work, communism doesnt either, we should think of something new") as well as my philosophy teacher ("im not so convinced of that argument "man is inherently evil and thus communism cannot exist", perhaps communism would work"). [/b]
they speak on the same level with you, yet they control you.

moskvax

27th August 2005, 16:29

Originally posted by organic revolution+Aug 27 2005, 03:27 PM--> (organic revolution @ Aug 27 2005, 03:27 PM)
[email protected] 27 2005, 09:19 AM
Your life isn't completly fucked because you still live with your mom. How long you expect to live there?Until the revolution!?ERU$*
where does it say he lives with his mom? [/b]
He is right though, I still do live with my mum, and I would be a lot worse off if I had to live by myself. I'm fortunate in a way to not be forced out when I'm 16; my family can and will still give me a place to live. One reason for me going back to school is so I can go off and live independantly once I've finished. If I wasn't going back, I would have to try and get into university without finishing school and with hardly any money, or work indefinately on whatever job I can find here, and I would rather go back than have to do either of them. Admittedly, I am going to be employed (at a primary school) starting pretty soon and until the end of the year, but it's not the sort of job I have any career interest in (computer maintenance <_<).

Because I plan on starting again, I guess you couldn't call me a drop out any more, but at the time I stopped going to school I had no plans to ever go back, so I left as a drop out.

EnragÃ©

27th August 2005, 16:35

Originally posted by organic revolution+Aug 27 2005, 03:35 PM--> (organic revolution @ Aug 27 2005, 03:35 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 09:30 AM

organic [email protected] 1 2005, 08:08 PM
Chances are, if you are young and politically active, then you are harrased at school. what is the solution? ignore, or fight back? i say fight back and drop out of the brain wash camp your a forced into every day 5 days a week. for more info on this go to
Getfreedropout.tk (http://Getfreedropout.tk)
im not harrassed. I have actually had quite interesting discussions regarding marxism/revolution etc with both my history teacher ("capitalism certainly doesnt work, communism doesnt either, we should think of something new") as well as my philosophy teacher ("im not so convinced of that argument "man is inherently evil and thus communism cannot exist", perhaps communism would work").
they speak on the same level with you, yet they control you. [/b]
no they dont control me, they discuss with me the same way you and i would discuss things.

yes there are teachers who are like that, but there are some who are just good teachers.

HamishFTW

28th January 2010, 06:14

Yea everybody that decides to take their own path through life instead of that prescribed by twattish semi-teachers at post 16 colleges has no idea about life and the world at all.

Liberateeducate

29th January 2010, 14:27

“Every society organized of winners and losers must persuade the losers that this state of affairs is necessary, and that its way of picking winners and losers is just, that the losers deserve to lose” (Holt,162). This choosing of winners and losers and indoctrination is largely done by schools in America, “but the people who control society naturally want the schools to pick winners in such a way that the existing social order is not change, in short, most of the winners are children of winners and losers children of losers” (Holt, 162). Thus, we see that public schools of America train people in a coercive manner and have a very specific task of teaching children to accept their position in society.
The public schools job is to, “train another generation every time which will be prepared to make the same decisions as the ones that came before: proud of its country, unquestioning of its motives, antagonistic to all foreign ideologies, well-protected against ethical considerations other than those of an attractive and self-depreciating kind which serve to decorate overall self- interest” (Kozol, 183). It does not exist to foster critical thought, ethics, or upheaval; instead it protects the status quo and the racial, gender, and class hierarchies that exist in this country.

that's an excerpt from a paper I wrote last semester, i think it accurately shows you what the education system in america serves to do, I don't advocate dropping out. I urge students to learn the hoops/tricks to get ahead in school, but remember thats all they are "hoops/tricks". Never let the systems bullshit overwhelm you, always remain critical and know whats happening and attempt to find ways to explain the systems true nature to others be it students or teachers. I have this idea that all people are naturally learners and explorers we all love learning, but hate the current type of "education" we are given because it combats with out own natural ability to learn.
I say also search for ways to subvert the system, by attempting to create open dialogue in the classroom with the teacher/classmates, if the teacher is teaching you something you aren't familiar with or don't believe matters ask him to make it relevant to your life and the current world. And not just some face value adaptation bullshit like "Well every NEEDS to know this in america" say "Give me specific reasons as to why this is relevant to my life and the rest of my classmates life, we deserve how this history/math/science whatever class is relevant to our lives."

The sources I used were
"Instead of Education:ways to help people do things better" By John Holt
"The night is Dark and I am Far from Home" -Jonathan Kozol