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View Full Version : Judging Homosexual Marriage With Help From Marxism



RedStarOverChina
1st February 2005, 00:12
This article is written based on my understanding of Marxist interpretation of marriage. It stems from my readings way-back-when; and they were written in Chinese. So I might have problem expressing them in English or even make a false statement or two. Thus, both encouragements and criticisms are welcomed.

Friedrich Engels (y'all know who that is, I hope) wrote a book on the concept of marriage. In his book, he suggested that, the defination of marriage is not absolute. It is a product of the economocal environment of which the people lived in. Thus, the idea of marriage is an invention by men, not God, or any other natural order.

He went on, saying that because there is nothing "holy" about marriage, the system of marriage constantly changes. We had monogamy and polygamy(one female, multiple males; then one male, multiple females), for example. Moreoever, the roles of male and female in a marriage changes as their economical or social condition changes. For example: women's social status imporves as they are able to gain access to more financial income.

Now we have shattered the myth about marriage, I can't help but wonder, what is there to be feared about homosexual marriage? We are so heavily binded by the chains of tradition and custom, that is it so easy to dismiss or even persecute new ideas.

Some of you might know, that Marxism does not believe in marriage at all. Marx (or Engels, I dont remember) referred to marriage as "legalised long term prostitution (again, this is translated from Chinese from German, which inevitably lead to inaccuracy, but u get the meaning)."

To those new to the idea, it makes perfect sense if you think about it. Both parties gives sex, and in return gets financial aid or aid in other ways--which is a loose defination of prostitution. Of course, to come to that conclusion, we have already dismissed the concept of "love", which is the natural thing for us materialists to do.

I support the basic idea of marriage for now, because it is so generally accepted, that it wouldnt be completely dissolved for considerablly long time. Also it's because that I'm sort of a Freudian thinker, meaning that i still believe that, for now, people need to find comfort in marriages.

By the way, I'm not homosexual, just so you know that i'm looking at it in a more subjective point of view. And please ignore the grammar errors, for God's sake.

Nick Yves
1st February 2005, 00:37
Debating over this is pretty much a lost cause, the liberal point of view has way more pros, and can easily be proven more fair, accurate, rational, etc... The reason so many people are against it, as the saying goes, "people fear what they don't understand."

apathy maybe
1st February 2005, 05:24
As far as I can tell from talking to capitalists who oppose homosexual marriage, marriage is between a man and a women. No reasons why, just is.

Judging any marriage from an anarchist pov, if it can't be left by either or any party whenever they want, it shouldn't be allowed.

amusing foibles
1st February 2005, 05:30
I somehow doubt that the majority of those who oppose homosexual marriage are Marxists, unless Rick Santorum has a hidden secret...

RedStarOverChina
1st February 2005, 05:43
"I somehow doubt that the majority of those who oppose homosexual marriage are Marxists"
?sorry but wht do u mean? i just spent halve an hour explaining that Marxists are suppose to support homosexual marriage....lol

amusing foibles
1st February 2005, 05:46
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 05:43 AM
"I somehow doubt that the majority of those who oppose homosexual marriage are Marxists"
?sorry but wht do u mean? i just spent halve an hour explaining that Marxists are suppose to support homosexual marriage....lol
I mean that arguments for homosexual marriage are only effective if they target the people who oppose homosexual marriage. I think the majority of people who oppose it, when told that "Marxism says you should", would just call you a godless commie and pray for your soul.

RedStarOverChina
1st February 2005, 05:51
LOL well said. Thats exactly my Christian friends' reaction when I explained to them Marxist belief regarding family and marriage. They are so binded by the chains of tradition and custom, that it's almost sad.

NovelGentry
1st February 2005, 06:14
I'm not so sure materialists would dismiss the idea of love. The problem is that marriage under previous systems has rarely been based on love for the majority of people. It is a socio-economic relation above and beyond it is a love relation because so long as we are not free from the socio-economic ups and downs of the given system, they are a primary worry, as they are a material worry. These material aspects are primary considerations because of the system we live under, not because of any inherent existence they have in relationship. Marriage is a formal institution recognized by the state, it has monetary implications, and always has in the past, even when recognized only by the church.

I think Marx would agree that under the freedom of a communist society such formal institution need not exist. Thus it is not marriage, I don't think for a minute he would deny the idea of love. I would say he loved his wife and his children very much.

RedStarOverChina
1st February 2005, 12:10
Oh…I knew that! LOL sorry I made a mistake. I always think of Freud whenever there’s a discussion about “love”. Freud believes that “love” is only the camouflage of a deeper instinct: sex. How would a Marxist define “love”(specifically between a man and a woman)?

amusing foibles
1st February 2005, 19:26
WWMD?

bolshevik butcher
1st February 2005, 19:40
Isn't marridge leagally basically a contract? I don't really believe in marridge either, an homsexuals should have the same right sas everyone else.