Ancient Egypt

[T_SP]

I just really started getting into it, infact I'm becoming fanatical even to the point that I'm learning heiroglyphics!
Does anyone else have any thoughts or feelings or knowledge on Ancient Egypt particularly about the political system of that time, which I can't agree with, but interesting all the same?
TIA T_SP

[Intifada]

I went to Egypt last Summer, specifically Luxor, as the Westerners call it, and Cairo.

It is a fantastic place and truly beautiful, the people in particular are very friendly.

Tutankhamun's gold mask is incredible, and the pyramids are awe-inspiring. If you ever have the chance to go, then go.

The Valley of the Kings is another fascinating place to visit.

So much history.

I also heard that some of Egypt's treausures are going to be displayed in Britain.

[SpeCtrE]

I used to enjoy egyptology, I still find it so intresting... But what really intrests me about this civilization is that it existed long before, and had some answers to some questions we don't even know how to answer now!

[SpeCtrE]

You want an Example, Ok

The Egyptians were able to unlock the secret of the pyramid, why it has different behavior.

[SpeCtrE]

BTW, Did you know that a blade increases its sharpness when placed in a pyramid container.

[RedLenin]

Yes the Egyptians were quite something. I became interested in Egypt because of the pyramids. It amazes me how they built them. Too bad they were forced to do it through brutal slavery.

[amusing foibles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 11:39 PM
Yes the Egyptians were quite something. I became interested in Egypt because of the pyramids. It amazes me how they built them. Too bad they were forced to do it through brutal slavery.
The idea that the pyramids were constructed using slave labor has been largely discredited (I think, It's been a while since I was into this shit)- most likely they used contracted labor.

My personal favorite tidbit about the pyramids is how they all line up almost exactly with the main stars in the constellation Orian (sp?). That's just neat.

What's all this crap about pyramid shaped containers?

[RedComrade]

I've heard odd stuff like that before too.... Like I read somewhere that food placed inside a pyramid shaped container will stay preserved. I don't know if i buy into it though because if the shape of a pyramid really did have that power there would be pyramid tupper-ware, and pyramid knife cases... etc.

[UtopicImperium]

es the Egyptians were quite something. I became interested in Egypt because of the pyramids. It amazes me how they built them. Too bad they were forced to do it through brutal slavery.

The idea of Egyptians using slaves to construct pyramids is a misconception. First of all you have to understand that back then, these people truly believed that the pharaohs were divine rulers chosen by their Gods. These people really believed and they worked HARD to please the Gods.

Second, The government gave them these jobs when there were floods in the land, making people go unemployd. The government gave building jobs to the unemployd.

[cormacobear]

For the best perspective on Acient Egyptian society, I would recommend the author Pauline Gedge.

I've read dozens of textbooks on Ancient Egypt and can find no innacuracy in her books.

[October Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 05:12 AM
The government gave them these jobs when there were floods in the land, making people go unemployd. The government gave building jobs to the unemployd.
Yeh thats right no slaves were used to build the pyramids they were all working men. The misconception seems to come across because even though the men wern't slaves they were treated rather badly so people come to believe that they were slaves.

Ancient Egypt is very fascinating to me the way they managed to make these immense monuments with such limited rescources and technology was amazing.

i hope to go someday but it won't be for awhile yet since i'm still at college. :(

[October Revolution]

Has anyone heard about the pyramids magical powers or their allignment to the stars and such like?

I was just wondering what you all think about it...

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

Allignment with Orion's belt yes! I have over 60 books on Egypt. I wouldnt want to go there today tho, its not the same with all the tourists! it sux! Ive always been interested in the murder of Tutankamun. Especial as his father Akhenaten is my fav Pharaoh. Also the Embalming aspect as i am a qualified Embalmer :)

[October Revolution]

So the pyramids are just alligned with Orions belt oh ok then. Theres all kinds of theories that its alligned with other stars and planets and things but there just prattle.

Yeh the murder of Tutankamun is pretty fascinating but hasn't it been solved now as to who did it and why? not sure if it's true like. i spose though that it's just got lost in time like everything does.

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

His grandfather Aye. yes! For power over egypt.

[guerillablack]

The misconception of slaves isn't derrived from treatment of slaves. It's just zionist plot to make you feel sorry for jews. They tried to say jewish slaves labored on the pyramids, which is untrue.

[ComradeChris]

I took an Ancient Greece course last semester and it was discussing the profound influence Egypt had on Greece and even further West. But I find it more intriguing that most of the Egyptian's influence was even derived from further east in most cases (ie. cultural, religious, etc. artifacts and evidence were found predating some of the things we thought originated in Egypt and Greece, were found in places like Persia, India or China).

[redstar2000]

The first strike in recorded history...

Records of the strike at Deir el Medina under Ramses III (http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/turin_strike_papyrus.htm)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Paradox]

What do you guys make of the debate over whether or not the Egyptians were black? I remember reading some openly racist pieces by whites saying that it wasn't til just before Egyptian society collapsed that the blacks became pharohs and such. Those pieces also blamed the blacks for the fall of Eygpt. :rolleyes: Bunch of crazy racists. Anyway, didn't they find cocoa and tabacco in some of the Egyptian tombs? And this suggests that either the Natives went to Egypt, or the Egyptians went to the Americas. I've heard and seen a couple of books about the Africans coming to the Americas and influencing the Natives, such as the Olmecs. What do guys make of this?

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 04:01 AM
The misconception of slaves isn't derrived from treatment of slaves. It's just zionist plot to make you feel sorry for jews. They tried to say jewish slaves labored on the pyramids, which is untrue.
What are you trying to say? That there is a worldwide Jewish conspiracy? Are you a nazi, because you certainly are making yourself out to be. Normally, I don't cry anti-semitism, but that remark crossed the line. What if i said that the African-Americans didn't really work in the cotton fields, that it was a lie put together by the Black Panthers?

[Vallegrande]

It may well have been Africa's ancient kingdoms that influenced the creation of Egypt. Imhotep was chief adviser to the first great ruler of the Third Dynasty, Djoser. Imhotep was known for his profound wisdom in medicine. He could understand illness by just looking at the complexion of the person. He was sage, scribe, architect, medicine man. And he was black.

The Buddha was black too, and so was Jesus.

[comrade_mufasa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 11:01 PM
The misconception of slaves isn't derrived from treatment of slaves. It's just zionist plot to make you feel sorry for jews. They tried to say jewish slaves labored on the pyramids, which is untrue.
:blink: that sounds very Nazi to me.

There were Jewish slaves, but they had resrictions on what they were allowed to build. They could not build temples and pyramids becouse they did not belive in the Egyption gods. So they would tant the temples and pyramids if allowed to build them. People dont know that the Jewish slaves of Egypt were not slaves becouse they were Jewish it was becouse they were not Egyption. If there were Japonese settlements in Egypt then it would have been more then likly that they would be put under slavery. With all that aside they were still slaves and were treated as unhumanly as any slave is.

[redstar2000]

What are they teaching kids these days?

1. Pyramids have no "magical powers" to heal people, preserve food, etc.

2. "Jews" did not work on the pyramids because, at that time, there were no Jews.

3. The "Book of Exodus" speaks of "Hebrew slaves" who worked on building Egyptian "treasure cities" during the "New Kingdom"...but that's a myth. (So is the "exodus" itself.)

4. Lower class Egyptians were "dark brown" -- they worked in the sun. Egyptian aristocrats were "light brown" -- they stayed out of the sun or had slaves carry an umbrella to shield them.

5. No evidence of contact between ancient Egypt and Central America has ever been authenticated. (Egyptian pyramids were tombs -- Central American pyramids were temples.)

6. There is no evidence that the Japanese ever had contact with Egypt, and certainly not ancient Egypt. There wasn't any civilization in Japan in those days. (There is some controversial evidence that lost Japanese vessels may have reached what is now southern California c.800CE -- there are otherwise unexplained similarities between certain Native American languages and the Japanese language.)

7. The "Nubian dynasty" in Egypt was also "dark brown" -- Nubia was a "dark brown" land, not a "black" land.

8. "Jesus" was "brown" and so was, most likely, the "Buddha". Jesus got to be "white" when Christianity became dominant in Europe. The "Buddha" looks "yellow" because the Chinese were the largest ethnic group to embrace his doctrines.

Such an odd fuss over "color".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 08:43 PM
The first strike in recorded history...

Records of the strike at Deir el Medina under Ramses III (http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/turin_strike_papyrus.htm)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
Interesting the Masons who were basically a greedy group of builder Cappies under an Enlightenment banner. Liked to say they were based off an ancient sect of Ra the sun god, and base their ideology back to Egypt in what was the New Age mysticism of the day.

This is interesting if you look at the working conditions of the workers under the pharohs which were deplorable. The strike seems to be based off of staarvation and missed wages in the winter months. In Western Capitalism of which many of the ruling elite belong to the Masonic lodge, many people are most unemployed in the winter when spending decreases and many of these people are homeless or starving. Just like in the days of Pharoah people are more liekely to get shot or killed robbing a bank the modern day tomb of adolation than if they shot another human being in broad day light.

As far as the Egyptians Persia was an influence partically in the later years with Zoratsorism and the Indus Valley . The area around Ghana was probably a trading center even at that time of gold and ivory. The are a lot of ancient traditions with Ghana and the gold trade which persisted into the 17th century. But mainly the Carthians with mediciene and shiping were starting to make an imprint.

As far as Buddha he was of the Shakya clan which was of Chinese orgin, this is according to sanskirt documents in Tibet, trust me they would not say he was of Chinese lineage if he was not prior to the 50's :D and especially afterwards. He and his family were renowned for having slanted eyes, and he was also renowned for his golden color.

As far as Mayan and Egypt are concerned, there was a scientist who sailed across the Atlantic around 15 years ago in a papyrus boat similar to the Egyptians. I think it is possible there was some contact between the two. If we consider the founding of New Zealand and Australia by canoe this is not that uncommon.

[Urban Rubble]

The Buddha was black too, and so was Jesus.

Not that it matters, but that is totally inaccurate.

The ethnic makeup of people back then was quite a bit different, but if there WAS a Jesus he was most likely of Semitic origin. "The Buddha", who actually had a name, was not "black" either. Northern India at the time was inhabited by a people whose background was made up of the various tribes of Central Asia mixing with the "Indians" of the southern part of the Indian subcontinent (I can't remember what they called these people back then, their empire did have a name though).

[seraphim]

quote redstar2000 feb10th @ 03,01a.m

No evidence of contact between ancient Egypt and Central America has ever been authenticated.

Not precicely true ancient egyptcian mumies have been found to contain traces of coffee and marijuana 2 plants which only grew in central or sothern america at that time.


(Egyptian pyramids were tombs -- Central American pyramids were temples

TRue but both the great pyramids at giza and the temples at teotihucan in central america are built on the same angles hights and distances the central american ones are on a smaller scale and are at 90 degrees to the horizontal where the ones in egypt are at 45.

In actual fact the citizens who built the pyramids were some of the best treated in egyptcian society they had advanced medical care and were very well fed it's now believd by most egyptologist that they came behind only the pharoes and the priesthood in society

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 01:18 PM
quote redstar2000 feb10th @ 03,01a.m

No evidence of contact between ancient Egypt and Central America has ever been authenticated.

Not precicely true ancient egyptcian mumies have been found to contain traces of coffee and marijuana 2 plants which only grew in central or sothern america at that time.
a) Source?
b) Academics, who are sometimes in contact with mummies, often contain traces of coffee and marijuanna.

[seraphim]

A documentry on U.K T.V bout a yaer ago. I know that academics have traces of coffee and marijuana but I'm talking about tests on bone and hair samples traces which could only exist through prolonged usage. Then there's the discovery of Nile crocodiles in the sahara desert. A simple search in any search engine will give you a variety of sources for this.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:01 AM
1. Pyramids have no "magical powers" to heal people, preserve food, etc.


I think what they mean is, there were shafts in the pyramids which aimed at Orion. The "soul" of the deceased Pharaoh was supposed to go through that shaft directly to Orion.

[cormacobear]

I don't know about coffe but Marijuana also grows naturally all over southern asia.

While I don't know about Japan, the Chinese did send an expedition to Egypt, and that voyage is well documented.

Hebrew slaves and the Exodus are historical fact, however there was nothing supernatural about the plagues which have also been proven.

I Beleive you're reffering to the Mughal empire in Northern India. And Buddhas name was Seddharta.

[seraphim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 03:33 PM
I don't know about coffe but Marijuana also grows naturally all over southern asia.


Not in the time of ancient egypt it didn't

[Phalanx]

1. Pyramids have no "magical powers" to heal people, preserve food, etc.

I can't say that any of my teachers have taught this in their lessons.

2. "Jews" did not work on the pyramids because, at that time, there were no Jews.

I do believe that there was a Jewish community in Egypt at that time. They were treated as the Untouchables are in India, and they were most certainly used as slaves. However, many of them lived along the border of the Sinai as the pharoahs settled them there.

[cormacobear]

The earliest record of man's use of cannabis comes from the island of Taiwan located off the coast of mainland China. In this densely populated part of the world, archaeologists have unearthed an ancient village site dating back over 10,000 years to the Stone Age
The discovery that twisted strands of fiber were much stronger than individual strands was followed by developments in the arts of spinning and weaving fibers into fabric - innovations that ended man's reliance on animal skins for clothing. Here, too, it was hemp fiber that the Chinese chose for their first homespun garments. So important a place did hemp fiber occupy in ancient Chinese culture that the Book of Rites (second century B.C.) ordained that out of respect for the dead, mourners should wear clothes made from hemp fabric, a custom followed down to modern times.[2]

While traces of early Chinese fabrics have all but disappeared, in 1972 an ancient burial site dating back to the Chou dynasty (1122-249 B.C.) was discovered. In it were fragments of cloth, some bronze containers, weapons, and pieces of jade. Inspection of the cloth showed it to be made of hemp, making this the oldest preserved specimen of hemp in existence.[3]

[comrade_mufasa]

3. The "Book of Exodus" speaks of "Hebrew slaves" who worked on building Egyptian "treasure cities" during the "New Kingdom"...but that's a myth. (So is the "exodus" itself.)
Yes there was an exodus. The hebrew text play it up a lot, as many religous text tend to do, but it has been proven that there was a mass slave movment out of Egypt.


6. There is no evidence that the Japanese ever had contact with Egypt, and certainly not ancient Egypt. There wasn't any civilization in Japan in those days. (There is some controversial evidence that lost Japanese vessels may have reached what is now southern California c.800CE -- there are otherwise unexplained similarities between certain Native American languages and the Japanese language.)
I was just using Japan as an example that foreigners were put under slavery. No one said that there were Japanese settlements in Egypt.


Not precicely true ancient egyptcian mumies have been found to contain traces of coffee and marijuana 2 plants which only grew in central or sothern america at that time.
Coffee is from Ethopia which was a large trade partner with many palces at the time of the ancient Egypt. Marijuana is native to India, and was well known though out southern Asia, the middle east, China, and the nile valley. Hash-hesh was used along with lotus petals and second flower that I forgot the name of (it is native to Egypt) as a smoking mixture in Egypt (if you ever get the chance to smoke that mixture it will be the best tasting thing you have ever had, ever :D ). Though the Egyptians preferred opium over hash. Hemp was used as a cheap reliable fabric through out the the nile valley, the middle east, China, and India.


QUOTE (cormacobear @ Feb 10 2005, 03:33 PM)
I don't know about coffe but Marijuana also grows naturally all over southern asia.




Not in the time of ancient egypt it didn't
Yes in the time of ancient egypt.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Pandora+--> (Pandora)As far as Buddha he was of the Shakya clan which was of Chinese origin, this is according to Sanskrit documents in Tibet, trust me they would not say he was of Chinese lineage if he was not prior to the 50's and especially afterwards.[/b]

Well, I suppose the possibility can't be ruled out...but it would raise a host of other difficulties. What was he doing in Northern India? How did it happen that he was born a "prince" there? The caste system already existed then...so what was this "foreigner" doing at the "top" of the "food chain"?

We know the "white Jesus" came from European prejudice; isn't that also the easiest explanation for the "Chinese" Buddha?


As far as Mayan and Egypt are concerned, there was a scientist who sailed across the Atlantic around 15 years ago in a papyrus boat similar to the Egyptians.

Indeed there was...he wanted to prove that the Egyptians "could have done it".

But that's not the same thing as saying they did it.

As far as I know, Egyptian vessels were built for trading purposes...up and down the Nile and along the eastern Mediterranean coast to Phoenicia. The Egyptians were not "great explorers" as a rule.

If any ancient sailors made it to the east coast of North or South America, the Phoenicians would have been the logical candidates...they were the "great explorers" of the ancient world.


Originally posted by seraphim+--> (seraphim)Not precisely true; ancient Egyptian mummies have been found to contain traces of coffee and marijuana; 2 plants which only grew in central or southern America at that time.[/b]

Coffee, sure. It grew in what is now Ethiopia and was consumed in ancient Egypt.

Marijuana, very unlikely. No record of it has turned up in the enormous store of evidence that we have from Egypt.

I find the idea that caffeine or cannabis molecules would deposit themselves in people's bones and remain intact for detection over thousands of years to be...well, unbelievable.


...but both the great pyramids at Giza and the temples at Teotihucan in Central America are built on the same angles, heights and distances; the Central American ones are on a smaller scale and are at 90 degrees to the horizontal where the ones in Egypt are at 45.

I very much doubt that any of that is true.


While I don't know about Japan, the Chinese did send an expedition to Egypt, and that voyage is well documented.

Ancient Egypt? Very doubtful.


Hebrew slaves and the Exodus are historical fact.

No they're not; they are mentioned nowhere outside the "Old Testament" and strenuous archaeological searches have failed to turn up anything. Further, the OT account refers to cities that did not exist within the "time frame" that the Exodus "took place".

Egyptian records, in fact, mention a tribe which may be the Hebrews only once...and places them in the hills of Palestine.

Some of the ancient records of nearby civilizations do occasionally mention the Hebrew "mini-kingdom" around Jerusalem...but nothing older than that.

The best hypothesis at this point is that the Hebrews (later Jews) were a mountain tribe that population pressure forced into the plains...where they fought for and eventually captured the city known subsequently as Jerusalem. They never had "an empire" and never conquered most of what became the Roman province of Palestine until the rise of the Maccabees.


Chingis [email protected]
I do believe that there was a Jewish community in Egypt at that time.

People "believe" some very odd things.

The pyramids were built a long time ago. The Great Pyramid at Giza is known to have been completed in 2560 BCE.

The people who were to become the Hebrews and later still the Jews probably didn't exist; but if they did, they lived in a few small villages in the mountains of Palestine and had almost certainly never heard of Egypt.


comrade_mufasa
Yes, there was an exodus. The Hebrew text plays it up a lot, as many religious texts tend to do, but it has been proven that there was a mass slave movment out of Egypt.

No.

People need to remember that the Egyptians kept records...and much has survived due to the dry climate. When some people, for reasons of their own, make "wild claims" about ancient Egypt, be skeptical -- if it wasn't written down, painted on the wall of a tomb, or carved into a monument, that's a pretty good sign that it didn't happen.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[cormacobear]

Recall Archeology is a young science new and exciting discoveries are made every day.

the Merneptah stele which mentions a landless people called by a word which seems to be Israel. The stele is dated to 1210 BC, and so seems to tell us that there were people identified as Israel, but with no land in Canaan in 1210 when the Pharaoh Merneptah devasted the whole of Canaan and declared that Israel was laid waste and his seed were no more.

The Egyptians had a superstious habit of ritually destroying pottery inscribed with the name of an enemy. Breaking it broke the power of the name. Many of these broken pots have been found. Look at Hatshepsut her succsesors went to great lengths to remove all record of her, had she not been so prolific a builder they likely would have succeded

According to the Bible’s own chronology, the Exodus took place about 1446 BC. Even though Israel’s sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus are not mentioned in any Egyptian documents, general archaeological evidence from Egypt fits the Biblical date. The same is true about archaeological evidence from Canaan being consistent with the Biblical date of the Conquest (about 1400 BC).

Since 1966, extensive excavations have been undertaken there under the direction of Manfred Bietak of the Austrian Archaeological Institute, Cairo (for previous reports, see Shea 1990: 100-103; Wood 1991: 104-106; Aling 1996: 20-21). It is possible that Prof. Bietak may have, for the first time, found physical evidence for the presence of the Israelites in Egypt.

The earliest evidence for Asiatics at Rowaty (the city that later named Rameses) occurs in the late 12th Dynasty (mid 19th century BC). [3] At that time a rural settlement was founded. It was unfortified, although there were many enclosure walls, most likely for keeping animals. The living quarters consisted of rectangular huts built of sand bricks (Bietak 1986: 237; 1991b: 32). It is highly possible that this is the first material evidence of Israelites in Egypt. It is the right culture in the right place at the right time.

The tombs were constructed of mud bricks in Egyptian fashion, but the contents were strictly Asiatic. Although they had been thoroughly plundered, 50% of the male burials still had weapons of Palestinian type in them. Typically, the deceased males were equipped with two javelins, battle-axes and daggers. Tomb 8 contained a fine example of a duckbill-ax and an embossed belt of bronze (Bietak 1996: 14). One of the tombs, however, was totally unique and unlike anything ever found in Egypt...

This took five minutes of research perhaps in a few more years there will be absolute proof but like like most history we're peicing it together as we go.

[Phalanx]

There was significant evidence from Egyptian hieroglyphics that the ancient Hebrews did exist in Egypt. They were the slave class, and sought freedom by leaving Egypt. Sure, the whole moses thing was not true, but there was a major Exodus from Egypt.

[Urban Rubble]

Sure, the whole moses thing was not true, but there was a major Exodus from Egypt.

Well, I did watch a show on the history channel that said the eruption at Pompey (sp?) could have triggered a tsunami which sucked the sea in, allowing Moses to cross before the tsunami wiped out the Romans.

:lol:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by cormacobear+--> (cormacobear)According to the Bible’s own chronology, the Exodus took place about 1446 BC. Even though Israel’s sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus are not mentioned in any Egyptian documents, general archaeological evidence from Egypt fits the Biblical date. The same is true about archaeological evidence from Canaan being consistent with the Biblical date of the Conquest (about 1400 BC).[/b]

Come on! The bland statement that "general archaeological evidence" says this or that is meaningless.

The reason that "Israel's sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus" go unmentioned in Egyptian records is they never happened.

Further, the archaeological evidence from Canaan does not "confirm" the conquest but contradicts it. Jericho was indeed destroyed in battle...but nowhere near the "time" of the "conquest".


It is possible that Prof. Bietak may have, for the first time, found physical evidence for the presence of the Israelites in Egypt.

No...it's much more likely that he has found evidence of a trading colony that could have been established there by any number of peoples -- Phoenicians, Hittites, even Babylonians. It might well have been an ancient version of our modern "free trade zones"...though, more likely, it simply served as a convenient way for the Egyptian government to collect a tax on imports from the Near East.

Since the graves found at the site contain the remains of warriors buried with weapons, it's also possible that it was a military outpost staffed with Canaanite mercenaries...or that they served as guards for visiting Canaanite merchants and died while in Egypt.

Don't forget that the "Bible" looms so large in western culture that we have the (false) impression that the ancient Hebrews were "a big deal" in their time. They were not!

Note also that archaeologists have to eat...and fund expeditions. Any discovery that could have a "Biblical significance" will be publicized accordingly...in the hopes that some Christians will open their fat purses.

This is regrettably true in other sciences as well. A portion of the human brain that seems to be involved in strong convictions is called..."the god module". The Higgs Boson, a particle required to make the "standard model" of particle physics work, is called "the god particle".

These days, you never know when some superstitious asshole in some bureaucracy is going to be the one who decides if your project gets funded or not...so if you can work a little godbabble into your proposal, it can only help.

If only NASA could plausibly portray its projects as "the search for god", their funding would probably triple immediately. :angry:


Chinghis Khan
There was significant evidence from Egyptian hieroglyphics that the ancient Hebrews did exist in Egypt.

Not a scrap.

If someone offers to sell you a scroll that says otherwise, don't buy it. It's fake!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[RedStarOverChina]

While I don't know about Japan, the Chinese did send an expedition to Egypt, and that voyage is well documented.


I dont think we ever reached Egypt. However, the Chinese diplomats and explorers did reach as far as modernday Somalia. This might sound crazy to u, but newly surfaced evidence SEEM to suggest those same group of people also were the first explorers (after the Vikings) to reach North American. Imagine... From Somalia to China to America...

Also, Buddha in Chinese tradition is alway portrayed as having curly hair, indicating that he's not Chinese.

[pandora]

Originally posted by Pandora+--> (Pandora)As far as Buddha he was of the Shakya clan which was of Chinese origin, this is according to Sanskrit documents in Tibet, trust me they would not say he was of Chinese lineage if he was not prior to the 50's and especially afterwards.[/b]

REDSTAR 2000

Well, I suppose the possibility can't be ruled out...but it would raise a host of other difficulties. What was he doing in Northern India? How did it happen that he was born a "prince" there? The caste system already existed then...so what was this "foreigner" doing at the "top" of the "food chain"?

It was not Chinese influence that said that the Buddha had Chinese lineage but sanskirt documents. It was common practice at the time for princes to take foreign wives for trade or land purposes, not unusual. But I believe the Shakya clan actual came over the mountains many years earlier. Shakyamuni was a descendent with some Chinese attributes which made him and his family stand out. I believe their area was referred to as the Shakya region at the time.


...but both the great pyramids at Giza and the temples at Teotihucan in Central America are built on the same angles, heights and distances; the Central American ones are on a smaller scale and are at 90 degrees to the horizontal where the ones in Egypt are at 45.


I very much doubt that any of that is true.

I do not know about angles. But I have been inside the pyramid temple at Palenque and seen the burial tomb inside straight down the main shaft the same as Egypt. I don't believe it is possible to enter that shaft and not be blown away by the resemblence to the Egyptian burial ceremony.

Also I have seen the stone caskets that the Egyptian mummies were put in with ISIS over the front and the stone casket inside the tomb in the pyramid in Palenque looked extremely similar with different markings but same format.



As far as Mayan and Egypt are concerned, there was a scientist who sailed across the Atlantic around 15 years ago in a papyrus boat similar to the Egyptians.


Indeed there was...he wanted to prove that the Egyptians "could have done it".

But that's not the same thing as saying they did it.

As far as I know, Egyptian vessels were built for trading purposes...up and down the Nile and along the eastern Mediterranean coast to Phoenicia. The Egyptians were not "great explorers" as a rule.

If any ancient sailors made it to the east coast of North or South America, the Phoenicians would have been the logical candidates...they were the "great explorers" of the ancient world.

I would agree that most likely the Phoenicians brought the culture to the Mayan, actually the Mayan have eyes that are similar in some ways to the Egyptian I would not be surprised if one was the colony of the other perhaps using the Phoenicians. It could have occurred in the very early years of Egyptian society that there was a split and one group left. As the Mayan in Palenque used stone in such a way which was unsustainable for their environment.

[cormacobear]

Discount scientific evidence all you'd like if it makes you feel more comfortable in your dotage. I only included the evidence from the tomb of a couple of higher ranking members not the information about the large slave settlement serounding it for brevity. but if you insist.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a027.html

What was the name of the first Hyksos Pharoe? still under debate.

Name five peasant families written about in the Egyptian record?
If they didn't write about their peasants why would they write about their slaves?

[seraphim]

I'm sorry but up to date scientific evidence suggests that in no way did the egyptians use slaves in any part of pyramid construction the cities at the bottom of the pyramids have been found to contain the remains of people who had had fractured or broken bones which showed signs of obvious medical care why would you repair the broken bone of a slave when you can just get another one?

[Vallegrande]

The Buddha was black in my opinion. the first inhabitants of India were the Ethiopians, who created the great civilization in the Indus Valley. It was raided by barbarians in 1500 b.c., and racial assimilation began, creating the caste system in India, dark skins on the bottom and lighter on the top. After these times, the Buddha was depicted in various ways, but many of his depictions show him with black skin, a flat nose, powerful lips, and long black curly locks for hair around Indochina. 50,000 years ago the Ethiopians inhabited the Indus Valley. Can&#39;t tell me its highly unlikely that Buddha was black. <_<

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by cormacobear
Discount scientific evidence all you&#39;d like if it makes you feel more comfortable in your dotage.

You say that to me and then offer as justification a sleazy site called "Christian Answers"?

If you read your own link carefully, you&#39;ll see that it&#39;s full of "might have been&#39;s", "could have been&#39;s", etc. -- carefully inviting the pious sucker to leap to a conclusion for which the evidence is exactly zero.


What was the name of the first Hyksos Pharaoh?

That&#39;s not known, of course.

What is known is that the Hyksos ruled Egypt for a century or so.

The lives and individual names of Egyptian slaves may not have been recorded; but if a distinct ethnic/cultural group of slaves existed there, that surely would have been recorded...if only in passing.

It wasn&#39;t.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Phalanx]

RedStar, where do you get your information? Until you can prove this to me with an unbiased source, i cannot believe this information is credible

[Marukusu]

"...creating the caste system in India, dark skins on the bottom and lighter on the top."

Then if the "Buddha" Siddharta Gautama was, as mentioned earlier, a prince, shouldn&#39;t his skin be light? I&#39;m not an expert in religion or anthrophology, but I think it is very unlikely that Gautama was "black" like the natives of Africa.

And btw, doest it matter what damn skin color he had?

-Marukusu, celebrating his first...inlägg, as we say in Sweden.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+Feb 11 2005, 10:59 AM--> (Chinghis Khan &#064; Feb 11 2005, 10:59 AM) RedStar, where do you get your information? Until you can prove this to me with an unbiased source, i cannot believe this information is credible [/b]
From a lifetime of reading, of course.

Unfortunately, I did not know that one day in the distant future there was going to be a thing called the "internet" that would have "message boards" containing people who expected me to "document" everything I was ever going to say.

So I didn&#39;t take notes. :o

I don&#39;t expect, of course, people just to "take my word" for anything. If you&#39;re really interested in ancient Egypt, there are many reputable texts to choose from...that contain no trace of mindless superstitious babble.

The truth about ancient Egypt is fascinating enough...but that never seems to inhibit the inventors of baroque mythologies.

The Egyptian Gods were really space aliens.

Yeah, and my great-grandpa was the love child of Eleanor Marx. :lol:


Vallegrande
The Buddha was black in my opinion. the first inhabitants of India were the Ethiopians, who created the great civilization in the Indus Valley....50,000 years ago the Ethiopians inhabited the Indus Valley.

We don&#39;t know or have any way of finding out who lived in the Indus valley 50,000 years ago...or even if it was inhabited or not.

But that never stops the myth-makers.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Vallegrande]

Well, we have to make up our own conclusions whether or not Shakyamuni was a certain skin color. I think an accurate detail of skin color matters, because much of the African and Middle Eastern cultures have been torn down by the crusades and any other forms of oppression, mainly anti-semitic and racial intentions. Historically, much of the cultural improvements and technologies of the darker skinned culture has been discredited and wiped out with the destruction of various libraries and other storehouses of knowledge and historical data, including the Library of Alexandria. I almost feel like anti semitic peoples, mainly of white decent, has deliberately wiped out an enormous gap of history, of what really happened in the past, what more we could have known of Jesus or Shakyamuni. That&#39;s similar to genocide in my opinion.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Vallegrande
Historically, much of the cultural improvements and technologies of the darker skinned culture has been discredited and wiped out...

Possibly true...we have no way of knowing.

But while culture can be and is still being abandoned or suppressed, a technological breakthrough is much more difficult to wipe out or discredit.

It is so obviously useful that people don&#39;t give a rat&#39;s ass about the skin-color of the inventor.

If someone shows you a "better way" (usually an easier way) to accomplish some laborious task, do you stop and worry about the color of the instructor? Or, for that matter, the gender or the sexual orientation?

Does the "better way" really work? That&#39;s the only thing you care about (unless you&#39;re a nutball).

"Credit" is a different matter. Some key technological inventions that had a big effect on Europe were pioneered in China (printing, gunpowder). The mathematical tool of "0" was probably conceived in India and algebra was an Arabic invention.

All humans are capable of innovation...the ethnic/cultural group in which a particular innovation first appears is a matter of chance.

Every distinct ethnic/cultural group has a marked tendency to "boost" its own "self-esteem" at the expense of all other ethnic/cultural groups. Only people who "look/think like me" are "truly human".

Back in the 1950s, it was a standing joke in the "west" that the Russians were always claiming to have invented "this or that". A few of those claims might have had some merit, but none of them were taken seriously.

But when the Russians were the first to launch an artificial satellite into orbit, the "west" choked on its laughter.

Sometime in the not too distant future, an African scientist is going to make a major discovery...that&#39;s inevitable. When it happens, there will be a large banquet featuring crow for all those who have, in the past, posited Africans as "less innovative".

Yet in three or four centuries, the discovery will be "taken for granted" and no one except a tiny handful of historians will remember who did it first or what ethnic/cultural background they came from.

It won&#39;t matter...as indeed, it never really has mattered to anyone with any sense.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

It&#39;s not inevitable that an African scientist will make a great discovery on short term.

Modern science requires facilities, highly trained personel, lots of money, machines, knowledge - these are pretty much absent in Africa. Greatly reducing the chances of scientific discoveries. The centralization of capital, had also as effect that science centralized.

It should not be a suprise that most scientific discoveries are done in rich countries.