I have a question..

[Independants]

I'm not anti-communist or anything, but I'm just curious. I'm neither communist or anything else, either. I'm independant. I basically beleive in what I think is right. Anyways, my question is this:

What would be someone's motivation to work hard and get an education to become a Doctor if they get paid the same as a refuse collector?


If this is a misconception on how communism works, I'm sorry and please set me in the right direction.

[Roses in the Hospital]

First of all the Doctor wouldn't necessarily get payed exactly the same as the garbage collector, they'd bothe be payed on the basis of ability to need. Which brings us back to your question, people in communism would work to the best of their ability, in the name of the well being of the community. So a Doctor would be motivated not by money but by the desire to help people, which isn't so different from why people take certain jobs now in my experience...

[October Revolution]

Exactly. it's a common mistake to make so don't think to much about it.

[KuliNeMeL]

a Doctor may not be paid more then a refuse collector, but he will GET other stuff then money, like respect, praise and appreciation... MONEY is NOT the only thing in the world... i hate money :\ it needs to be abolished

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 05:02 PM

What would be someone's motivation to work hard and get an education to become a Doctor if they get paid the same as a refuse collector?



Why pay them anything?


"Each according to the best of their abilities, each according to the best of their needs."

Work in Communism would have different context, you could switch jobs whenever you wanted, there is a quote something or other Karl Marx made saying "One day I could be a fisherman, the next day a farmer...." anyone know that quote?

Work would become a intellectual stimulating activity, people would follow their passions; people who are simple would be happy with just farming or factory work.
More intellecutally inclined and higher intelligence would be more happy challenging theirselves to be doctors or scientists of some type. You follow your passions in Communism, not what will make you the most money.

[Asadam]

In communism people don't do they job for money! They work for the community! What is the worth of they job? The baker, the slaughter and all worker of mealproducing working just for everyone, and everyone honouring and requiting each others job....with everything what people need. Thats because there no place for loungers in communism.

[Asadam]

...and no place of money...

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

This should be in "Learning". Moving!

[NovelGentry]

. . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic. -- Karl Marx

[STI]

1) I've noticed that when this question comes up, it's always [doctor] and [sanitation worker of some sort]. Why are people hating so hard on sanitation workers?

2) The whole "Doctors should get paid more" thing is, at its root, based in the idea that doctors are doctors because they get paid a lot, not for any other reason. This probably isn't true, for the majority of doctors. There are doctors like that, but I sure as hell don't want them doing anything to me! Think about what else they might do to 'make a quick buck'. Sell my kidneys?


I basically beleive in what I think is right.

That statement is basically pointless. Everybody does. It's what you think is right that makes you a Leninist, an anarchist, a capitalist, etc.

[Abstrakt]

Yeah. On the real. I mean, have you checked out Garbage Men's salaries lately? They make more bank then teachers(From what I've been told, so I might have been told some bullshit).

[Encrypted Soldier]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 08:23 PM
Yeah. On the real. I mean, have you checked out Garbage Men's salaries lately? They make more bank then teachers(From what I've been told, so I might have been told some bullshit).
Yeah, Garbage Men actually have a pretty good paying job (since it's a federal job). I don't know about the state you live in, but in Michigan, the Teacher's Union is really strong, and teachers here are one of the most high-payed teachers in America, and they make more money than Garbage Men. But in other states, I wouldn't be surprised if Garbage Men made more money than teachers...

[Ligeia]

How do people get what they need to live?
will there been some houses for clothes or food and you can take just a certain amount?Or will people be so nice that everyone gives and takes from each other?
What happens if in a family only exist persons who want to be doctors and teachers,and not another job?
I am sure that people would choose their work because of the things they can do with it and because they like it but what about commodities and neccesities,how do they get them exactly?

[Independants]

Not everyone works out of the kindness of their hearts.


What about the lazy people who don't do anything? Should they benefit off other's hard work?

[NovelGentry]

We've addressed the so called "lazy people" about a billlion times in other places on this forum. It's probably also addressed in a number of Redstar's papers as well as Sticky's.

[Capatalist]

Yeah cause you know that people are really motivated by praise and respect, and not money.

[Abstrakt]

Originally posted by Encrypted Soldier+Jan 30 2005, 12:40 PM--> (Encrypted Soldier @ Jan 30 2005, 12:40 PM)
[email protected] 29 2005, 08:23 PM
Yeah. On the real. I mean, have you checked out Garbage Men's salaries lately? They make more bank then teachers(From what I've been told, so I might have been told some bullshit).
Yeah, Garbage Men actually have a pretty good paying job (since it's a federal job). I don't know about the state you live in, but in Michigan, the Teacher's Union is really strong, and teachers here are one of the most high-payed teachers in America, and they make more money than Garbage Men. But in other states, I wouldn't be surprised if Garbage Men made more money than teachers... [/b]
Well, I live in Washington State. We are about 48th in the Nation(In teachers salary).

[NovelGentry]

Regardless of "praise and respect" people do things out of their own interest. Just because you have no interests other than gaining money doesn't mean all of us don't. Some of us love to read, write, help others, teach others. Some kids want to be train conductors when they grow up, others want to be firefighters, others want to be doctors, others want to be astronauts, others want to be scientists, others want to be musicians.

Humans created the means to survive LONG before money existed. They do that out of necessity. But if you think that "educated jobs" and technological advancement will stop without money in mind, you're horribly mistaken. You cannot remove humans curiosity and desire to learn and create new things -- if anything it has carried society into the age where money rules all. It will carry us out of it too.

[Abstrakt]

Nicely put.

[October Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 08:43 PM
Yeah cause you know that people are really motivated by praise and respect, and not money.
Well yes they are much more infact even within the business world it is greatly accepted the money can be a demotivator not a motivator. For instance have you ever heard of Maslows hierarchy of needs thats all about how the work force gets motivated and money is right at the bottom. People are much more likely to work hard if they are praised or given more responsibility.
Money is nothing more than a tool which can be used to enslave the population of the state.

[Abstrakt]

...But...Umm...Wouldn't currency be destroyed?(Maybe, burned?)

[STI]

...But...Umm...Wouldn't currency be destroyed?(Maybe, burned?)

Exchange wouldn't exist, so currency would be worthless. People would have access to whatever they needed.


will there been some houses for clothes or food and you can take just a certain amount?Or will people be so nice that everyone gives and takes from each other?

Right now, we produce far more than enough for everybody to live comfortably (and STILL have loads left over). Everybody would have access to whatever they needed.


What happens if in a family only exist persons who want to be doctors and teachers,and not another job?

People usually don't "just do nothing". They'll find things they find fulfilling and useful. The problem is the conditions of work we have to suffer through under capitalism.


what about commodities and neccesities,how do they get them exactly?

You'd go to some kind of "supply depot" and pick up whatever you were picking up.


Not everyone works out of the kindness of their hearts.

You're right. People work (right now) because, if they don't, they'll starve! Remove the crappiness of class society, and people find things to do that they find fulfilling and enjoy doing. Nobody will just "sit around" all day.


What about the lazy people who don't do anything? Should they benefit off other's hard work?


If I were to just sit around all day, doing nothing, I'd be regarded as a total asshole and treated accordingly. Plus, what the hell kind of life is that?!?


Yeah cause you know that people are really motivated by praise and respect, and not money.

Maybe they're motivated by not wanting to be ridiculed. Plus they'll find things they enjoy.

[Independants]

Intresting points. But how will we get people to do the jobs noone wants to do. If they can choose what they want to do, how can a government run without people doing the shitty jobs?

Another thing. If there is a "supply depo" how will we regulate what people take? Some greedy bastards might take more than there share.

[STI]

But how will we get people to do the jobs noone wants to do. If they can choose what they want to do, how can a government run without people doing the shitty jobs?

That stuff would be seen as "taking one for the team". I know the feeling that you get when you know everybody around you knows you just did something god-aweful for their benefit, and they're super-appreciative. I assume (hope?) you know that feeling too. That can compell people to do some pretty lousy (stupid?) stuff (myself included). The guy who wipes the crap off the floor of the bathroom will (after he showers) have a pretty kickass night, rest assured.


Another thing. If there is a "supply depo" how will we regulate what people take? Some greedy bastards might take more than there share.

That problem will probably have to be dealt with, though I doubt it'll be that huge an issue. If somebody keeps taking more than can be reasonably explained/justified, people would notice. Then the same thing would happen to that person as would happen to the guy who blows off doing anything productive for a long time - he'll be shunned, in effect. He'll be regarded as a total asshole and treated accordingly.

[Abstrakt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 04:05 PM
Intresting points. But how will we get people to do the jobs noone wants to do. If they can choose what they want to do, how can a government run without people doing the shitty jobs?


Well, my idea would be to have kind of Community service hours. Each person would have some hours to do the "shitty" jobs. All equal time.

[Independants]

What laws would there be? How would you deal with people who don't follow your vision and cause an uprising?

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 04:08 PM
What laws would there be? How would you deal with people who don't follow your vision and cause an uprising?

The threat of uprisings and insurgency is taken out by the stage before Communism, the Dictatorship of the Proletariat (Working Class Dictatorship; aka Socialism).

Under this stage; when the working class rises up and seizes control of the state; the burgeoise, counter-revolutionary and/or reactionary elements of society will be forced to submit or die.
Since the system is no longer capitalist, a person must work to making a living; no longer able to sit around making money off workers' labor, capitalists must join the working class. If they do not, they will not receive society's support. They, also could join the counter-revolutionary resistance and die fighting against the invetiable Communist Revolution.

So, once that bloody, violent part is done; everyone is a member of the working class; in essence, there are no classes, making the Dictatorship of the Proletariat no longer useful, which will then wither away to Communism!
Since then every one would have roughly the same interests since class antagonism has dissapered.