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Commie Rat
28th January 2005, 05:12
1 did che support FARC ?

2 should we support FARC ?

bolshevik butcher
28th January 2005, 13:13
Commie rat, mybe there was a time when FARC was revolutionary, today it's just a big gang that uses marxism to attract young members.

redstar2000
28th January 2005, 13:17
I don't believe FARC existed in Che's lifetime.

I support FARC in the same sense that I support all resistance to U.S. imperialism.

That is, without any implied endorsement of their political outlook or practices, I observe that they are actively resisting U.S. domination of Colombia and America's puppet regime.

And that's good enough for me!

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comrade_mufasa
28th January 2005, 13:35
what are the FARC's political stand? i know they are leftest but it seems that all they do is kid-nap people and deal cokcanie. I was reading an artical on them and the towns/villages in FARC land are very clean, orderly, everyone is cared for, crime is lower then in non-FARC land, and drug use is prohibited.

Anarchist Freedom
28th January 2005, 14:39
Bah what way to be hipocrites by prohibiting drug use but allowing the trafficing of cocaine....

guerillablack
28th January 2005, 16:31
wha'ts a hipocrite. you think it has any meaning. IE, oh im a hypocrite let me stop being one. So what. Morals don't exist for everyone.

bolshevik butcher
28th January 2005, 17:52
Red Star, so you support kdnappings and drug smuggling?

RedFlagOverTrenton
28th January 2005, 19:32
From what I know, FARC doesn't actually engage in the drug trade. They do, however, continue to allow coca farmers to grow their crop of choice. Those coca farmers, like every other business in FARC territory, pays a tax.

So, I SUPPOSE you could say FARC is involved in the trade, in a very roundabout way.

Of course, I think this is a problem, but not for the same reason most people do. The FARC, if it had a really revolutionary perspectives, should be trying to ween the agricultural community off cash crops IN GENERAL and have production based on need; i.e. less coca, less coffee, more food that people can actually eat and use. But to imply they actively support the drug cartels or engage in trafficking is little more than US propaganda. That's much more the ultra-right AUC's bag than anybody else's.

fuerzasocialista
28th January 2005, 20:31
What I have learned about the FARC over the years is that they are the body guards of the Cali cartel and also protect the movement of the merchandise around Colombia. I still haven't met any Colombians that have had anything positive to say about the FARC and some of these people describe themselves as Marxists. Due to the kidnappings and "narco-terrorism" that the FARC engages in, they do not have any real support system inside Colombia. I imagine that this is why Colombia always has a right-winged government that the people keep voting in. If they(the people) believe that the facade of Marxism that the FARC represents is genuine Marxism, you will not see a revolution take place anytime soon over there. Not to mention the ongoing tensions between Colombia and Venezuela.

Commie Rat
28th January 2005, 23:30
k thanks for clearing that up


Redstar ur saying an enemy of and enemy is a friend

redstar2000
29th January 2005, 02:17
Originally posted by comrade_mufasa+--> (comrade_mufasa)I was reading an article on them and the towns/villages in FARC land are very clean, orderly, everyone is cared for, crime is lower then in non-FARC land, and drug use is prohibited.[/b]

Unlikely. People have been chewing coca leaves in that part of South America for a long time. The FARC does not have the strength to stop that and would look foolish if it tried.


Originally posted by Clenched Fist+--> (Clenched Fist)Red Star, so you support kidnappings and drug smuggling?[/b]

In what circumstances?

Those acts, like a great many others, have no "abstract right or wrong" about them.

Kidnapping reactionary enemies of the people and even killing them has been practiced in various revolutions. So the question you should be asking is: is the FARC kidnapping the right people?

I don't know the answer...but I'll bet there is one.

As to "drug smuggling", since I support the right of individuals to use any chemical form of recreation or "enhancement" that appeals to them (as long as they don't endanger others)...naturally I support "drug smuggling".

I think the "war on drugs" is a war on ordinary working people...both inside the U.S. and in Latin America.


[email protected]
The FARC, if it had a really revolutionary perspectives, should be trying to ween the agricultural community off cash crops IN GENERAL and have production based on need; i.e. less coca, less coffee, more food that people can actually eat and use.

Disputable. Without cash, you can't purchase the things you need from the "first world" or its representatives in the "third world".


I still haven't met any Colombians that have had anything positive to say about the FARC and some of these people describe themselves as Marxists.

I knew some people from the Philippines during the Marcos dictatorship when I lived in San Francisco...they were very "closed mouth" about politics in their homeland.

If I were Colombian, I'd be extremely careful about who I spoke freely with. Saying the wrong thing to the wrong person could have catastrophic consequences (Marcos actually had opposition Philippinos murdered in California).


Due to the kidnappings and "narco-terrorism" that the FARC engages in, they do not have any real support system inside Colombia.

Well, they must be doing something right...they've been around for decades and show no signs of just withering away.

Of course, their supporters in the cities would be "deep underground" and not likely to show up for daily news briefings or television interviews.


I imagine that this is why Colombia always has a right-winged government that the people keep voting in.

And I am reminded of that famous remark attributed to one J.V. Stalin: Those who cast the ballots decide nothing; those who count the ballots decide everything.

An honest election in Colombia must be nearly as rare as one in the United States.


If they(the people) believe that the facade of Marxism that the FARC represents is genuine Marxism, you will not see a revolution take place anytime soon over there.

Possibly true. I wonder myself why the FARC and the ELN have never merged...personalities? They seem to have the same politics...a peasant revolution that will ultimately conquer the cities.

But as I said earlier, as long as they keep up their acts of resistance (especially against U.S. oil companies in Colombia), then I support them.


Commie Rat
Redstar, are you saying an enemy of an enemy is a friend?

U.S. imperialism is not just "an" enemy...it's the biggie -- the "fortress of reaction" over the whole planet!

And even more importantly, there is and will be zero chance of a communist revolution in the United States until U.S. imperialism gets hammered all over the world!

The "civic consensus" in the U.S. today is that America has "a God-given right" to rule the world.

Only massive defeat will shatter that consensus...just as massive defeat shattered a very similar consensus in Germany and Japan.

So even if the FARC and the ELN are lousy "Marxists" -- and, most likely they probably are -- their victorious march into Bogotá will be another step on the road to revolution here!

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chebol
30th January 2005, 00:53
redstar2000 wrote:

"Unlikely. People have been chewing coca leaves in that part of South America for a long time. The FARC does not have the strength to stop that and would look foolish if it tried."

Actually, the only traditional use of coca in this area (colombia) is that of the indigenous tribes, whose numbers are minimal. The coca grown in colombia is almost exclusively for cocaine production. The FARC-EP do actually prohibit the use of cocaine, and they actively discourage the people from growing it. Unfortunately, there are no other crops which are economically sustainable, particularly now that the entire countryside is being sprayed with glyphosate, which kills children, as well as most plants it touches. Recently, however, it appears that a coca plant that is resistant to glyphosate has been developed, essentially turning the spraying into nothing but thinly-veiled genocide (well, it was before anyway). The FARC-EP collect taxes on the farming of coca LEAVES, which is the only part of the process that takes part (or is even permitted) in FARC-EP territory. In this, it is no different to any other crop.

"Of course, their supporters in the cities would be "deep underground" and not likely to show up for daily news briefings or television interviews."

Well, yes and no. Naturally they're not going around saying they're FARC-EP. But, as I have mentioned in several other topics, they have initiated civic militias and local governments throughout Colombia and it's cities which are formally and functionally independent, but politically 'sympathetic'.

macorix wrote:

"What I have learned about the FARC over the years is that they are the body guards of the Cali cartel and also protect the movement of the merchandise around Colombia."

Lies. Pure and simple. The FARC-EP are not the 'body-guards' of anybody, except the inhabitants of the territory they control. You're thinking of the AUC.

"Due to the kidnappings and "narco-terrorism" that the FARC engages in, they do not have any real support system inside Colombia."

Which is why they control half the country, have an exstensive support network throughout the countryside and cities, a clandestine communist party in the cities and towns, between 20,000 and 40,000 REGULAR guerrillas, not to mention the part-timers, etc, etc?
Define "narco-terrorism". The closest I can get to it is what the GOVERNMENT of Colombia engages in with the AUC.

"I imagine that this is why Colombia always has a right-winged government that the people keep voting in."

Imagination can be misleading. Try- because every time the left in Colombia (including the FARC-EP) tries to enter elections they have been slaughtered (in their thousands). Interestingly, the ELN are going to take part in the next elections.

"If they(the people) believe that the facade of Marxism that the FARC represents is genuine Marxism, you will not see a revolution take place anytime soon over there."

The FARC-EP may have an understanding of Marxism slightly distorted by their Stalinist origins, but that has never precluded revolution in and of itself.

"Not to mention the ongoing tensions between Colombia and Venezuela."

What's that got to do with it?

And no, Che didn't support the "FARC". The FARC was formed in 1964 out of the remnants of the armed wing of the Colombian Communist Party. This military section already existed from the 20's or 30's. Che was a bit busy at the time, and the 'FARC' had a grand total of less than 10 members initially, but he may have heard of them. Who cares? It had no impact on either.

xx_refused_xx
30th January 2005, 06:43
I support the FARC, and look at the reasons why they have to deal with coke. The global market has fucked columbia up and put people out of work. and the u.s. gives the columbia right wing government 2 billion dollors, how else would the FARC can get support to fight?

bolshevik butcher
30th January 2005, 12:09
I suppose that maybe the drugs is acceptable, but kidnapping seems wrong.

xx_refused_xx
30th January 2005, 12:31
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 30 2005, 12:09 PM
I suppose that maybe the drugs is acceptable, but kidnapping seems wrong.
yes i agree, but lets think about the word kidnapped, in columbia they arrest anyone who even talks about communism there, and yes i do agree that its wrong on both sides, but maybe they are kiddnaping people who has tides with the columbia capitalist. here is a saying that i say alot "there is 2 stories for ever one thing"

sorry for the type-os, had a long weekend

bolshevik butcher
30th January 2005, 17:28
Originally posted by xx_refused_xx+Jan 30 2005, 12:31 PM--> (xx_refused_xx @ Jan 30 2005, 12:31 PM)
Clenched [email protected] 30 2005, 12:09 PM
I suppose that maybe the drugs is acceptable, but kidnapping seems wrong.
yes i agree, but lets think about the word kidnapped, in columbia they arrest anyone who even talks about communism there, and yes i do agree that its wrong on both sides, but maybe they are kiddnaping people who has tides with the columbia capitalist. here is a saying that i say alot "there is 2 stories for ever one thing"

sorry for the type-os, had a long weekend [/b]
What? So I suppose that this includes journalists and tourists. I am no fan of the Columbian government either though.