Religon and Art/Culture in Marxism

[novemba]

I've always heard from anti-marxists that a major fault of socialism>communism is that religon is not excepted because of this and that...can some one clarify and provide links...im curious cause i think that that would be a huge flaw in a marxist society...while im on it what about art and culture, in a perfect commune what would their role be? help! thanks.

[Paradox]

I've always heard from anti-marxists that a major fault of socialism>communism is that religon is not excepted because of this and that

Actually, religion IS excepted. You meant to say that religion is "not accepted." Anyways, I think there's a sticky on this in the Opposing Ideologies forum, check it out.

[Dyst]

We are, as Paradox said, discussing this at the Religion forum (sub forum of Opposing Ideologies, for some reason. I mean, not is it an ideology and it generally isn't very opposing...)

[Faceless]

while im on it what about art and culture, in a perfect commune what would their role be?
Such concepts would be much more interactive than they are in capitalism. In capitalist society people LISTEN to music and READ magazines and they WATCH performances, be they cinema or theatre. In capitalism we are subjects of an industry; and what we call art and culture is just a stream of manufactured goo which the capitalists know will be well received. How do they know? cos they've spouted most of these products once before.

In the real sense we are not even complete as subjects of the industry. The intellectual shallowness which accompanies the product of an industry necessarily demands a regression in your capacity to experience a work. People dont listen to music in the same way that pre-capitalist "classical" music is to be consumed. They are slaves to the beat. You dont read a magazine or even the latest novel in the same way you'd expect to read shakespear, which is "hard". Likewise cinema, something quite unique to capitalism, generally induces passiveness within its audience. As op ivy say, "freedom is to resist despair", escapism is all culture and art can provide in capitalism.

In a communistic society people will finally be able to invest in their own creativity and will have the time to do so. People will be able to interact with culture, to feed themselves, but more importantly to add to it. the press will be operated by the producers and will offer more breadth in opinions and debate.

[Ligeia]

I thought that art and culture will be better in communism since the people will be free of working for others and so they dont care about the opinions of others in what they create,so that art will really show the individualism of the persons.Art will be a way of expressing individualism.Now a days we are confused and sometimes corrupted by all these material things and the public opinion consisiting of that,in communism we wouldnt be confused because the people would learn that being is more important than having and so art,culture,literature,..whatever would have more freedom.

[redstar2000]

This thread might be of interest...

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31328

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Dyst]

Frankly, it is more incomprehensible to me that art and culture are able to exist in a capitalist economic system than in a socialist.

[novemba]

very good point, and in many ways its dying.

[Seuno]

Originally posted by necro_oner+Jan 28 2005, 01:17 AM--> (necro_oner @ Jan 28 2005, 01:17 AM)I've always heard from anti-marxists that a major fault of socialism>communism is that religon is not excepted because of this and that...can some one clarify and provide links...im curious cause i think that that would be a huge flaw in a marxist society...while im on it what about art and culture, in a perfect commune what would their role be? help! thanks.[/b]



Originally posted by Karl [email protected]
Atheism, as the denial of this unreality, has no longer any meaning, for atheism is a negation of God, and postulates the existence of man through this negation; but socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation. It proceeds from the theoretically and practically sensuous consciousness of man and of nature as the essence. Socialism is man’s positive self-consciousness, no longer mediated through the abolition of religion, just as real life is man’s positive reality, no longer mediated through the abolition of private property, through communism.

Communism is the position as the negation of the negation, and is hence the actual phase necessary for the next stage of historical development in the process of human emancipation and rehabilitation. Communism is the necessary form and the dynamic principle of the immediate future, but communism as such is not the goal of human development, the form of human society. [34]


http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...cripts/comm.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/comm.htm)


Karl Marx
It is in this sense that [ in a 1524 pamphlet ] Thomas Munzer declares it intolerable

"that all creatures have been turned into property, the fishes in the water, the birds in the air, the plants on the earth; the creatures, too, must become free."

Contempt for theory, art, history, and for man as an end in himself, which is contained in an abstract form in the Jewish religion, is the real, conscious standpoint, the virtue of the man of money. The species-relation itself, the relation between man and woman, etc., becomes an object of trade! The woman is bought and sold.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...stion/index.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm)

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 01:17 AM
I've always heard from anti-marxists that a major fault of socialism>communism is that religon is not excepted because of this and that...can some one clarify and provide links...im curious cause i think that that would be a huge flaw in a marxist society...while im on it what about art and culture, in a perfect commune what would their role be? help! thanks.
Well my guess is that childeren would not be allowed to be subject to religious view points.

As for culture, it would probably work in a similar way that it does now, only in a localized fashion, cutting out the nationalist possibility. "Gunge" would likely not have gotten big outside its locality.

I think that art would no longer be strangled for mass production, ar displayed in an elitist fasion. Not to say that soma artists would stick out above the others, just that the drive to become rich and famous would be non-existant. (obviously)