Origins of life?

[trex]

...So, like the topic header says, I was wondering again...where and how did life begin? Did it spontaneously begin on the walls of a volcano? Did a space meteor crash and bring with it intergalactic bacteria? Did Noah's space ark crash with 2 of each animal? I know they taught this all in school, but that stuff all left my head years ago. Links would be nice as well.

[the_godless_communist]

I dunno, they say it started with all those little buggers in the water, and they became fishies and then landies and then fascists...

[trex]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 01:14 AM
I dunno, they say it started with all those little buggers in the water, and they became fishies and then landies and then fascists...
that's all very helpful. I know life began with microorganisms in water, but how did they come to be? Did volcanic heat strike life into microscopic rocks? Did the right amount of molecules line up and begin 'living'?

[Dyst]

I believe it was bubbles in the water, which was probably caused by volcano erruptions, and eventually turned into life for some reason.

[Xvall]

Google didn't help because no one knows for sure. Anyone that claims to is lying to you and hates you secretly.

[ComradeChris]

See, different parts of the organism created in water would have to be created at different places. Water is the only place hypothesized to be protected enough against the UV light; as the atmosphere only built up because of Plants emitting O2 (according to theory of the primordial soup). But some of the major components of cells and life hydrolize in water. So they'd have to be created elsewhere.

I mean they did that experiment (I can't rememeber the two chaps' names) that created the ESSENTIALS of life in a controlled Earthlike environment. But many other parts of life are created naturally also. Like Nitrate for plants is created by lightning. People say that it would be impossible to stimulate an environment that created life. Considering the odds were the same as blowing up a junk yard and having a 747 pop created out of the materials and energy.

[encephalon]

there's really very little difference in what we call "living" or "non-living." It's nothing more than a matter of the organization of molecules, in a particular order to make those molecules act together as an "autonomous" whole. I put autonomous in quotation because really, there's no such thing.


Considering the odds were the same as blowing up a junk yard and having a 747 pop created out of the materials and energy.

This is quite untrue; if there's one law in the universe, it seems, it's that thing have a predisposition to organize. You can test this by making a few simple rules in a computer program, then filling a matrix to be tested against those rules with random garbage. Very quickly, you will find that those random pieces of junk have organized into an integrated system, until (provided the rules give such an option) either the trash all equalizes out into the same thing or the computer crashes from unforeseen problems.

Since reality is very obviously dictated by a set of rules (even though we have yet to define the most basic ones), it comes as no surprise to me that life exists, nor would it surprise me that much if life is constantly spontaneously manifesting and disappearing without our direct knowledge.

Perhaps before asking such a question, you should give a more concrete definition to what "life" is to base it on.

Look into the chaos theory some time, or cellular automata. If one has an imagination, the implications thereof are pretty exciting.

[ComradeChris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 01:22 AM

Considering the odds were the same as blowing up a junk yard and having a 747 pop created out of the materials and energy.

This is quite untrue; if there's one law in the universe, it seems, it's that thing have a predisposition to organize. You can test this by making a few simple rules in a computer program, then filling a matrix to be tested against those rules with random garbage. Very quickly, you will find that those random pieces of junk have organized into an integrated system, until (provided the rules give such an option) either the trash all equalizes out into the same thing or the computer crashes from unforeseen problems.

Since reality is very obviously dictated by a set of rules (even though we have yet to define the most basic ones), it comes as no surprise to me that life exists, nor would it surprise me that much if life is constantly spontaneously manifesting and disappearing without our direct knowledge.

Perhaps before asking such a question, you should give a more concrete definition to what "life" is to base it on.

Look into the chaos theory some time, or cellular automata. If one has an imagination, the implications thereof are pretty exciting.
I've heard many things like that. I couldn't tell you exact odds...but that's the type of odds one is looking at.

Check out my topic in Philosophy. It kind of goes a long with what you're saying; that all things try to find an equilibrium like one giant living entity.

[Don't Change Your Name]

"Chaos" and "order" do NOT exist.

[che's long lost daughter]

Trex, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Well, I think that most people are well aware of the numerous different theories on the origin of life and as for now, none has been generally accepted to be true. All of them are mere theories without concrete proofs or bases. There are so many of them that no one really knows what is real. Maybe you could google The Theory of Evolution by Charles Darwin, this is one of the most popular theories.

[trex]

Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 30 2005, 02:21 PM
Trex, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Well, I think that most people are well aware of the numerous different theories on the origin of life and as for now, none has been generally accepted to be true. All of them are mere theories without concrete proofs or bases. There are so many of them that no one really knows what is real. Maybe you could google The Theory of Evolution by Charles Darwin, this is one of the most popular theories.
While I am reluctant to say my real age, I'm still recieving my education. I know all about the Theory of Evolution, and the facts for it, but I just want to know why that little cell of bacteria sprung up from the murky waters of prehistoric earth. Everything evolving from the same little cell is a rational thought, but I still do not understand why the cell exists.

[Severian]

Like has been said, nobody knows for sure.

One theory is that natural selection may have played some role there as well - some organic molecules are self-replicating under the right circumstances, and the ones that replicate more successfully would have become more common.

So the assembly of a bacterial cell with the complexity we see today wouldn't have to be random; it might have evolved from much simpler assemblies of organic molecules....

[h&s]

Well its thought that before 'living' evolution there was a period of chemical evolution. This was a time in which a large ammount of organic, carbon based compounds were created. The vast ammount of possible different carbon compounds is the reason why there is so much variety in life. Its thought that amino acids might have bonded together to form proteins and nucleotides joined to together to form nucleic acids, but whatever it was scientists think that life stems from chemical evolution.

[Ramshaw is all]

They have been able to recreate a plausible early earth environment that freely creates amino acids, the building blocks of life(i hate that description), but as for how those amino acids grouped together with other complex molecules to create what is now known as life is still anyones guess

[encephalon]

I swear, life is nothing special. We are the same as everything else out there, just assembled differently. I don't believe there is something that makes one thing alive and one thing not alive. It doesn't make sense to me.

Under an environment that is dictated by a few laws--in this case physics--it is impossible for order not to arise.. and, as has already been stated by someone else (though I think for different reasons), it is truly impossible for "chaos" to exist. We call something random or chaotic that we don't understand the order of.

I find the arisal of intelligence, not only how it came to be but how it really works (and why.. more of an answer than natural selection, as that is only the continuation of more fundamental laws), much more worthy of consideration.

[Dyst]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 30 2005, 04:23 AM
"Chaos" and "order" do NOT exist.
What makes you say this? Order is exisitng in mathematical nature.

[encephalon]

chaos is order we don't see. Ever wonder why they can't mathematically generate truly random numbers? Here's a hint: they don't exist.

[Commie Rat]

wat elements make up protien ?

i read about this the theory is that the elements that make protien joined together by accident one formed then there was 2 then htey bulit up to a single Dna Strand then it made a sigle cell wall thhus creating lthe first cell and from that it evoled in to mulitcellur bacteria, then to simple lifeforms[ molluscs ect] then into fish and crustations then to amphbians then reptiles and dinosaurs then some species of dinosaure evoled fur and becaume mammanilan and some took to the rair and becam birds

then we end up with humans

i think . . .

[ComradeChris]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 9 2005, 02:22 AM
wat elements make up protien ?

i read about this the theory is that the elements that make protien joined together by accident one formed then there was 2 then htey bulit up to a single Dna Strand then it made a sigle cell wall thhus creating lthe first cell and from that it evoled in to mulitcellur bacteria,
Would they have done this on land? As I said many of the components to cells hydrolize in water (hence special passage ways are made to allow water into cells, as well as phospholipid membranes not allowing water in). And if they were done on land, the proteins probably would have denatured because of the lack of protection from UV radiation.

And to answer your first question proteins are made of amino acids.