The Real Fidel

[RaisedFistRebel]

I recently saw a documentary on the Discovery Times Channel about modern Cuba. It makes it seem like Cuba's communist state is not heading in the right direction. It seems like everybody is poor to the point where they are unhealthy and discontent. Is this true or is this biased-media propaganda? Whats the real story?

[KrazyRabidSheep]

It is biased, but some of it is probably true.

Cuba's communist state suffers from a few major drawbacks.
1. A true communist state must be accompanied by some sort of free govornment. Something at least a republic (a "representitive democracy such as the U.S. would fall under this category), or preferably, a true democracy. Someone who siezes control and keeps it, no matter how nobel the intentions or fair the rule, has put up a central autocratic govornment.
2. Communism is much like democracy in that a true state simply cannot exist it a large population. It would simply move too slow, and a country the size of Cuba is stretching the limits. To imagine the U.S. ever, ever converting to a communist state intact is folly. It would have to fall into smaller, more managable sections (littler countries with capitols such as NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, San Fran, etc.)

Now that aside, Castro has done a pretty good job. Cuba before the revolution was like any other Latin American nation. Poor, no plumbing, electricity, roads.

Cuba was ruled by an upper class that greatly eploited the rest of the country.

When the ruling class was overthrown in favour for equality, most of the ruling class decided to flee. (Desi Arnaz is a great example. His family moved to the U.S. . .why? because daddy was mayor of Santiago, largest city in Eastern Cuba, no less)

Now almost any Cuban who now lives in the U.S. is from one of these ruling families, so anything they have to say about Fidel will naturaly be bad.

Bottom line, Cuba has the human services (water, food, roads, power) that it lacked before the revolution. The quality of life in Cuba in awesomely high for the world and Latin America. The average Cuban who lives in Cuba leads a better life then the rest of the world, and the economy has progressed to the level where it produces more then the necessities for survival. . .it is more then just a rural nation. In fact, Cuba is the world's leader in cancer research and the Cubans are closer to a cure then anyone else.

On your program, they almost certainly:
1. Compared Cuba's wealth to The U.S. and Europe, rather then the world and Cuba's past, thus making it appear poor, when in fact, they are not
2. Said Cuba is unhealthy. This is a lie because the average life expectancy is well over 60years, higher then 3rd world nations. Child mortality rate is low.
They probably claim that because the U.S. denies Cuba trade, Cuba lacks American drugs, while exact duplicates are easily obtained under different name brands in different countries. Whether Pseudophedrine Hydrochloride is labled "Sudaphed" or "Happy Fernando's Magical Sinus Pills", it does the same thing.
3. They said Cubans are discontent. How would an American know? You can't exactly walk down the streets of Havana interviewing the average Jose in Cuba. They would have rather interviewed those who ran off into Miami, who had a grudge to start with, and even more so since they live a poorer life in the U.S.

[Taiga]

Cuba's communist state suffers from a few major drawbacks

Do not misguide the guy.
First of all, Cuba isn't a communist state. I think it's obvious.
Secondly, don't you think that since communism is a stateless society, it's simply wrong to use such expressions as "communist state". These two notions are mutually incompatible.
And as far as I know, Cuba is poor, but there are no people that live by begging, like in so "prosperous" cappie countries.

[October Revolution]

It's relatively well off compared with other poor countries well atleast in terms of the people within it. The vast majority can live a healthy life just not up to the standards of many MEDC countries.

[seraphim]

In michael moores T.V nation the health services of Canada, Cuba and the U.S were compared to cut a long story short Cuba came out on top by a country mile yet the network execs said this was unacceptable and when the program went to air Canada won and Cuba came second. I guess that kind of answers ths question on wether or not it's propoganda like most of the shit on U.S T.V

[SpeCtrE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 06:50 AM


Do not misguide the guy.
First of all, Cuba isn't a communist state. I think it's obvious.
Secondly, don't you think that since communism is a stateless society, it's simply wrong to use such expressions as "communist state". These two notions are mutually incompatible.
And as far as I know, Cuba is poor, but there are no people that live by begging, like in so "prosperous" cappie countries.

Cuba's communist state suffers from a few major drawbacks

True that.

[RaisedFistRebel]

Well I think we have the truth sorted out then. Very well. Thanks for your time everybody, especially krazyrabidsheep. That is a very informative essay! Would you all agree that Cuba looks bad mainly because of the USA's anti-communist policies (e.g. the trade embargo)?

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 02:40 PM
Would you all agree that Cuba looks bad mainly because of the USA's anti-communist policies (e.g. the trade embargo)?
Yes

The most important factor here is that Americans and Cubans can't really even meet or exchange info.

To see a Cuban, a real Cuban face to face, you must either:
1. Get multiple passports, fly to a 3rd country. . .Honduras for instance (I don't know if this would work, just a name thrown out at random), then go to Cuba via non-American airports
2. Join the U.S. military, get stationed in Guantanamo Bay (but here you simply get to see your "mirrior", you don't get much oppourtunity to have a nice, friendly chat over a cup of tea
3. Swim (not suggested)

The reason that Cuba looks bad is because the U.S. would like you to think so, and you have little way to confirm or deny the statement.

It's like teaching the public what you want to, and then burning the books that say otherwise. . .a true Nazi tradition

[RaisedFistRebel]

i see. what people need to know is that Cuba was way worse before the revolution, but instead they whine cuz its not exactly like the USA.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:43 PM
The most important factor here is that Americans and Cubans can't really even meet or exchange info.

To see a Cuban, a real Cuban face to face, you must either:
1. Get multiple passports, fly to a 3rd country. . .Honduras for instance (I don't know if this would work, just a name thrown out at random), then go to Cuba via non-American airports
2. Join the U.S. military, get stationed in Guantanamo Bay (but here you simply get to see your "mirrior", you don't get much oppourtunity to have a nice, friendly chat over a cup of tea
3. Swim (not suggested)

Not true at all, you can fly through a second country on an American Passport. When you enter Cuba, they place a piece of paper in your passport and stamp that. Then when you have left cuba and received your exit stamp you can throw the piece of paper away and no one is the wiser. Flying from Canada and Mexico are probably not good ideas, as recently there are SEVERAL reports of American Agents waiting in airports for americans to return from cuba in mexico and canada. remember Cuba ENCOURAGES you to visit, its the US that prohibits it. Also, no one has YET since the embargo begain been prosicuted in an American court for traveling to Cuba.

[KuliNeMeL]

well.. Cuba cant be a communist country, or even a democratic one,
cause as soon as the U.S will see that the people in Cuba are able to try and remove Fidel from his chair, they will do everything to help them, including another "bay of pigs"
though as far as i think, and know, Cuban people, or at least the majority of the people, likes Fidel...

[Karl Marx's Camel]

No matter what Cuba does, with the exception of opening up for capitalism, the capitalist class will always despise Cuba. Western stories and articles regarding any socialist nation should be taken with a grain of salt.

The Western propaganda always proclaim that "communism has failed", "communism is dead", but that is about how far their analysis go. Even (believe it or not) CIA reports are filled with propaganda.

When would you ever hear about the progression in Cuba?

Of course, after the fall of the Soviet Union, people have become materially poor. They might not get an X-box for christmas, but at the same time they are living in a safe, healthy enviroment. Not many people in this world do, especially not in the third world.

The Western logic fails here. They believe that, if you don't buy Western products, if you don't praise capitalism, if you don't get a car when you turn 18, you're poor. Nevermind the Cuba is a third world country, but at the same time they have free healthcare, education, and housing.


They'll never tell you that in 1958, 33 thousand tons of beans were produced, but in 1962, the number was up to 78 thousand tons. That's a rise in about 136 percent.

I doubt they'll tell you that when Fidel and the others took over, the illiteracy was as high as 23,6 percent, but in the end of 1961, the illiteracy was down to 3,9 percent.

Capitalist Haiti, at that time, had an illiteracy rate on approximately about 80 percent.


They'll never tell you that the infant mortality on Cuba on average is 5,8, while on the Isle of Youth, this number is down to 1.8, or that 68% of the state budget is to be directed to raising the levels of education, public health, social security, culture, sports and science and technology!


Compared, the US infant mortality is at approximately 7,0.




In michael moores T.V nation the health services of Canada, Cuba and the U.S were compared to cut a long story short Cuba came out on top by a country mile yet the network execs said this was unacceptable and when the program went to air Canada won and Cuba came second. I guess that kind of answers ths question on wether or not it's propoganda like most of the shit on U.S T.V

Do you have a link regarding this information?

[novemba]

NWOG, can you please link to your info too? It'd be greatly appreciated.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

2004: Infant mortality down to 5.8, Special Municipality of the Isle of Youth with 1.8 (http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2005/enero/lun3/02MORTAL.html)

Infant mortality rate: United States: 6.63 according to the CIA (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html)

The other facts are primarily from the book "Socialism on Cuba" by Leo Huberman and Paul M. Sweezy.


Other interesting articles:

China to buy 4,000 tons of Cuban nickel per year (http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/noviembre/mar23/48niquel-i.html)

Cuba optimizes its financial machinery for 2005 (http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/diciembre/juev30/2optim.html)

State budget of Cuba (http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/diciembre/vier24/01presup.html)