School vouchers - Bullshit, no?

[deadpool 52]

Discuss.

[j]

School vouchers are good for the select few that get them. But what about the poor kids that don't get them? The money that is used for the voucher is NOT spent on the public school. So, the public school becomes worse or stagnant and the poor kids without vouchers are stuck there.

If vouchers were available to ALL, then maybe it would be OK. But I know that it will not be available to ALL and that makes it bullshit.

School vouchers support the privatization of education. The ed reform laws call for "a free and appropriate PUBLIC education." School vouchers then are not a PUBLIC education.

Education is one of the reasons we should turn to a more socialistic economy. Because right now there is not equality in education. School vouchers are a weak attempt at creating equality. They are good for a select few who get them but the masses who don't suffer.

j

[red senator]

School vouchers help a few kids get out of failing public schools and into private schools, however that is just making the real problem worse. The real problem is that the government does not put enough money into public education, so vouchers are essentially giving up on education. The only way that vouchers will not make the problem drastically worse is if it abolishes the public school system completely and puts every kid in a private school, but that will come back to bite you in the ass at some point any way (Private schools can do whatever they want since they are private and don't have to follow restrictions on forcing religious beliefs on kids and hitting kids as a form of punishment)

Also, I think the minorities are going to get screwed on this deal because alot of the private schools were formed for parent's who don't want there kids to go to school with black kids. A private school in my area was founded when intergration was happening so that white kids wouldnt have to go to school with blacks.

American voters have a tendency to vote for candidates with the seemingly simple answers, like school vouchers. The voters think "what a good idea, fixing the problem of poor public eduction by providing kids with the ability to go to private schools." Wrong. It worsens the public education situation and won't even help that many kids get into private schools.

[Conghaileach]

How do people obtain vouchers? Why is it that so few receive them?

What do the vouchers stand for? Are they like scholarships for private schools?

[ID2002]

My country doesn't have "vouchers", we have
scholarships and grants but they are able to be won/ given to all.

[Fires of History]

Nothing really to add, great comments from all. But yes, school vouchers as they are practiced now will only take more money away from public education. If the school voucher program goes into full swing, that will be the effective end to public education in the U$ as more and more money is directed towards private schooling and less and less towards public schooling.

The other angle here is the religious one. Many of the people fighting for vouchers are those that want to send their kids to expensive and private schools of a religious bent, that or find funding for home schooling somehow. That too, in my opinion is wrong, as it would mean government funding going directly to a religious institution.

Not that most Americans really care anymore about what the right thing to do is, so nevermind.

[deadpool 52]

"Save the best, warehouse the rest."

A little history behind the idea: it was brought up after segragation was taking place, and as they do in private schools, allow who gets in what school. Started in the South of course, in order to resist the change. (but it looks like this was already stated.)

Politicians say that vouchers will help the poor, but this is bullshit.
What can they get with a $1,000 or $2,500 "coupon," when they still need another $25,000 to get into an excellent school? Nothing.
Vouchers are meant for those who live in the city, and make a modest living to flee the failing school system.

Private school systems are puppets of fundementalist rhetoric.
One textbook states that, "Slave masters treated their slaves fairly well."

Few things stopped this idea from spreading, mostly the idea of the seperation of Church and State.

(Edited by deadpool 52 at 12:47 pm on July 16, 2002)

[j]

[quote]Quote: from red senator on 1:20 am on July 16, 2002
(Private schools can do whatever they want since they are private and don't have to follow restrictions on forcing religious beliefs on kids and hitting kids as a form of punishment)

Right about the religion wrong about the hitting kids. It is illegal in most states to hit a kid as a form of punishment.

Cleveland is the test city for vouchers. People are applauding the efforts there. However, I would question how the students WITHOUT vouchers are doing.

Even if you give vouchers to 50% of poor students then you are still screwing the other 50%. That is inequality.

The idea is for vouchers to cause competition with public schools to better themselves. I work as a teacher in an urban school in Boston and I know very few people who don't want their schools to be better. However, public school funding is limited, classes are oversized, and little is done to involve families. Public schools are trying but the funds are not there. And vouchers would make public schools even less viable because the money spent on vouchers is money taken from the public school. Don't for one minute think that more money will be given to the schools for vouchers.

j

[deadpool 52]

Quote: from j on 12:07 am on July 18, 2002
[quote]Quote: from red senator on 1:20 am on July 16, 2002
The idea is for vouchers to cause competition with public schools to better themselves.

Yes, they are trying to make even education capitalist, hence, the exploitation that is soon to follow.

[Hattori Hanzo]

vouchers are acceptable until public schools get much, much better

[red senator]

j,
Private schools can hit kids in Louisiana. Even most of the public schools here can still use paddling as a form of corporal punishment because most of the population takes the "spare the rod, spoil the child" idea as god's law not to be ignored.

[Anonymous]

For a while i thought you were talking about vouchers to get free school meals. Ive never heard of anything like this in Merry Olde England

[ArgueEverything]

Quote: from Funky Monk on 10:11 pm on July 17, 2002
For a while i thought you were talking about vouchers to get free school meals. Ive never heard of anything like this in Merry Olde England

they dont have it here in australia either. that old phrase 'only in america' comes to mind.

[j]

School vouchers are not OK because they represent INEQUITY!!!! Why should one child benefit from a voucher and his neighbor not??

Of course this brings about larger questions about why a child in the suburbs benefits from a better school than a child in the city. That is true inequity and vouchers would only increase the existing inequity.

j

[abstractmentality]

How do public schools get funding? from the number of students, and other talleys, right? well, at my former high school, they didnt want anybody being late or ditching, not because it may harm our education, but because when we are in class, the school gets more money. so, if you eliminate portions of the student body with vouchers, you have also just eliminated tons of money the school would have been getting from those students being in the public school. hence, the inner city schools suffer more, while the private ones excell. isnt it wonderful!?

damn i hate the present vouchers!