An idea to fellow High Schoolers

[Zingu]

In reading about the YCL and other leftist youth leagues, I had an idea. Wouldn't be a good idea to found a sort of leftist student run "partnership"? Establishing local chapters at our high schools. Instead of being a junior league of some political party, it could be a leauge actually run by the students.

We could start by starting forums for such an organization, left wing high schoolers on these forums can persuade other leftists at their school to also register. From there, we could organize and see how we stand. Then, we could in touch with leftists from other high schools (I know a few myself in Poway) persuading them to recuirt leftists at their schools, rinse and repeat.

Its just an idea to start with, anyone have any suggestions, ideas?

[Karl]

This is a good idea, but we will face difficulties in areas like:
1. making sure were all on the same page, like what were about, ect.
2. communication between school chapters.
3. membership structure, we cant have an elitist attitude when it comes to gaining members but i dont exactly want somone that just wants to be "different" or stand out.

this is a great idea, we should find more of us to input their opinion on this topic.
also, say we gather a large number of individuals, how do we communicate between chapters exactly what branch of socialism or communism we advocate, i dont want us to be really loose and unorganized. youll figure something out im sure. we should get redstar2000 or gent for some suggestions

[Quixotic]

I'm all for it, I could provide forums at my site (rottenthoughts.com), i already have posting with my ideas - others could pitch in :), sounds good.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

If it helps, groups in Nova Scotia (East Coast Of Canada) - autonoumous social justice clubs/collectives had been collaborating to some degree. Last year they organized a small conference that (in my opinion) was very successful. I'll double check and find out the address of their mailing list. It might be beneficial to talk to some of those folk, once you've got groups of some sort up and running at yr own schools.

Werd.

[NovelGentry]

My suggestion is simply to end the separatism. You're indeed right when you say you shouldn't be regulated as some "junior league." But I'm not sure the answer to doing that is creating a league of students separate from any other leftist group.

I think Zingu has a fair knowledge of my opinion on formal organization. So what I recommend, if you feel you must take this route is simply to create a network. What I mean by this is establish the link, make communication possible. But leave action up to individuals, or at the very least small sections of this group. Share ideas and goals, but never impose a groupwide action.

Different students will be willing to have different levels of activity in a "revolutionary" movement.

I probably sound like a broken record when I say this, but examine the model we're using to establish the GCP (Global Communist Partnership).

The GCP itself will NEVER define the action of a given party, union, or individual member takes, that is always up to them, and should always be up to them. What it will define is the general goals of the movement, to which all members should adhere to, and to which is chosen completely democratically. Thus, the GCP becomes exactly as it is named, a partnership.

This may be a poor example, but think of a married couple who both work to pay the bills. The husband/wife will never impose in the work of their spouse, it would be stupid for either to say "Do what I do, I make more money." (for example). Each works individual of the other, but in the end their work is focused to bring about an eventual goal (buy a house).

Does this mean the partnership is equal? HELL NO. Why should it be? If someone does not feel as though they can take a specific course of action (and I do mean action), why should they? There will always be people who do more for the cause. Those who put more effort in, physically, to push the goals of the movement, and it may make quite a bit of sense for separate parties or larger groups to do these (more people == more resources).

If because of that you assume YOU want more people on your side, then form your own local organization, and push a "party-line" (democratically or otherwise chosen), beware, however, the tendency of such formal organization to attract the wrong people. Pseudo-Socialists, Reactionary social democrats, etc...etc. And don't be shocked if you create this system on democratic grounds, but then must turn to authoritarianism to remove such influence.

To summarize, keep to the idea that this is a communicative front, NOT a front for nation-wide action. Coordinating your physical opposition (violent or not) to the state is only going to be met with early physical action (violent or not) from the state. Your movement may haver just enough time to breathe before it is squashed down (quite possibly by the school system itself).

Do not use this group to present a threat, present the threat on your own grounds on your own turf, and make that as underground and as small as possible (at best, only people you can REALLY trust). Instead, use it as a means to move your separate action within the same general direction. Only when the oppressor has crumbled and is no longer in control of your existence will you be free to turn that group into a unified and active force, ready to deliver a final blow.

EDIT: I kinda lost track of what I was saying when I said not to continue the separatist action, but what I was trying to drive across is that maybe you shouldn't create your own partnership or party/union/organization, but instead join a larger, already existing one. You may be student leftists, but hopefully you're leftists first, and let that define where you lie, rather than the fact that you're students.

[Zingu]

I was thinking of a loose partnership, many on campus leftist groups are isolated from other schools. Just an idea to sort of "link" them together so to speak.

[American_Trotskyist]

I have started one, not affliated with this, called Students for an Egalitarian Society, basically this but to create a militant leftwing

[Guest]

Instead of being a junior league of some political party, it could be a leauge actually run by the students.The YCL is run by students.
It's organizationally independant from the Com. Party

..Just so you know :)

[Hobo87]

Actually, this is my last year of highschool and through my ideals read and thought out in my mind I've recruited about 8 people to a socialist state of mind and many others who are reconsidering their ideas. Plus, I've started a free thinker's magazine in which anyone in the school can write in it. This avoids corporate media altogether and creates a public forum of ideas. I recommend all highschoolers who read this to consider starting an underground magazine and spread it across your school. One thing to remember though, let it at least be point/counterpoint and let the reader decide for themselves. We must create a media unbound by the corporate control to connect people to people and not the hand to mouth of consumerism.

[STI]

I'm very supportive of such an idea in theory, but, based on what Paradox has told me, I think there are some very serious issues to be worked out.

Most importantly, why the heck would we want reformists and social democrats in the group? What good can come of it?

Less pressingly, would it necessarily have to be a coalition of *groups* exclusively? Things are looking pretty bleak at my school as far as starting any real leftist group. Would it be *cool* for a single member to be part of this coalition?

I could probably bug a few of my friends into it, but they're not "active"-esque lefties by any measure. Leftists? Definately (a couple of them, at least. The others are *ugh* social democrats). Active? Nah. So, if bugging them doesn't work, would it be possible for me to be a 'group of one'?

[Hobo87]

I believe that all should be involved for we cannot say we are socialistic if we only allow one viewpoint. We can disagree with them and stand against them in discussion and articles. We cannot say we are the voice of the people though without giving the voice back to the people and not just our comrades.

[STI]

I believe that all should be involved for we cannot say we are socialistic if we only allow one viewpoint.

That statement rests on the premise that socialism is, by its very nature, 'accepting of all viewpoints', or at least 'most viewpoints', as long as they're "Not conservative". Why not let card-carrying Democrats in?

To be honest, I don't even consider social democrats to be "leftists" at all. Left-bougeois, yes, but not "leftist" by any stretch of the imagination.


We can disagree with them and stand against them in discussion and articles

But, in public, we'll stand beside them and be all buddy-buddy-like. The message taht sends to people is clear: The ideas held by these guys are respectable and even worth considering. Is that what we want to do? Hell no.


We cannot say we are the voice of the people though without giving the voice back to the people and not just our comrades.

When did we say we were "the voice of the people"? I thought this was supposed to be a network of leftists. Tell me, if a majority of "the people" were openly fascists, would you let fascists into the group? I should hope not.

Just because some or even most of "the people" believe it, doesn't mean we have to bend over and take it.

[Hobo87]

Are not social democrats people?
Are not they also workers of the world?
Although I differ with them they are my fellow man and to denounce them completely is to be in ignorance. Communism is based on the working classes and not the upper classes. If we denounce others as not our fellow brother than you are denouncing yourself as a communist. What you have to do is try and convince them not fight them or else you are fighting an inner class war. No one will win because all the while there are the leaders comforted by their knowledge that they will not have to worry about the working class because it is so factioned that there is no problem with uprise. As we continue with these battles within the lower class we allow those with all the power to sit back and gain more control over us.

[STI]

Are not social democrats people?
Are not they also workers of the world?

Yes, they are, but so what? Fascists are people. Some fascists are workers of the world. Again, being "a worker" or one of "the people" isn't a license to hold on to crappy ideas.


Although I differ with them they are my fellow man and to denounce them completely is to be in ignorance.

Not if they're full of shit. We should always call them on crap and not publicly "join hands" with them just because they're our "fellow man". Would you denounce fascists? I should hope so. Why? Their goals are totally contrary to ours. Their beliefs suck. Same with social democrats (granted, for very different reasons).


Communism is based on the working classes and not the upper classes. If we denounce others as not our fellow brother than you are denouncing yourself as a communist.

Not really. What qualifies somebody as "our fellow brother", as you put it?


What you have to do is try and convince them not fight them or else you are fighting an inner class war

Of course we should always try to convince people. But should we "buddy-up" with them, sending a terrible message ("the ideas that these guys have are worth working with")?

I don't think so.


No one will win because all the while there are the leaders comforted by their knowledge that they will not have to worry about the working class because it is so factioned that there is no problem with uprise.

Those "fragments" in the left are necessary and spring from fundamental disagreements over the nature of post-revolutionary society AND how to make revolution. And that's "within the left", we havn't even TOUCHED on "social democrats" ( :lol: ) yet.


As we continue with these battles within the lower class we allow those with all the power to sit back and gain more control over us.

So we should just bend over and take it, letting Ralph Nader, Jack Layton, and Tony Blair gain control over us? Screw that.

[Hobo87]

Within a communistic society all ideas exist. Its not as if you are going to destroy their ideas unless you are proposing genocide. Yes, I agree we should call them out on things but we have to also hold hands with them if you want communism. My question is, if you don't mind, how exactly do you propose to set up a communistic society if you don't accept people for who they are? If you want a community based on the workers it is a joint effort and not individualistic. What you are calling forth is called cleansing of all other ideologies different than your own which is an impossibility. Fascism tried it as well when people tried to rebel they'd shoot them down or torture them. Is a violent society based on mistrust what you want? As for your question as to what qualifies a brother or comrade is any man, woman, or child who feels wronged in this society. Looking for some justification to a system which has continually favored the elite over the working person. You make a valid point as to what we should accept though. We cannot accept unjustified exploitation of course and to prevent this we have to at least hear them out. If the general public disagrees with a proposal made then it should be denounced. Always, though we should be based off of our general public and not a small few with much power.