Capitalism

[Major. Rudiger]

Well i a strong suppoter for comunism and like the Green party or mostly any peaceful non conservtive party. Well two days ago in one of my classes we had a long agruement about communsim "the evil lazy way" and then there's capitalism "the god man fight to the top", this isnt my opinon this is my facist friends idea. My friends only agruement that he fought so hard to believe was that comunism creates a lazy society felled with people who get free stuff. But capitalism is the great way of living, that makes great working society with zero "LAZiNESS". or something in those lines. Also his other friend start ranting about poverty and only eating bread. (what up with them and saying you'll be poor for the rest of your life and only eating bread and water.) Maybe at the beginning well get that, but they dont understand that things well get better (if the goverment does it right). And the last arguement was aobut luxeries. You really dont need 4 tvs and 3 computers in one house.

Me and my other friend who isnt pro comunist but, is anti capitalism. But can you give me some good arguemnet to save him from his hell hole ideas.

[Famepollution]

My friends only agruement that he fought so hard to believe was that comunism creates a lazy society felled with people who get free stuff

First off In a communist society People would do what they want. The individual chooses the prefression he or she desires. so Naturally they're going to choose the job that they themselves wish to do. For example my mother LOVES to garden and does so for no profit. So in communist society she would be in a farming/gardens commune and would give her excess to those who want it. People are lazy when they are forced into a specific work against their wil like Me when Im forced to weed my mothers garden. Savvy?


Also his other friend start ranting about poverty and only eating bread

Communism is a classless system where there is no 'poor' or 'rich'.


the god man fight to the top

communism has no top. And if this "god man" tries to subvert a commune under his rule im sure the local populace would surely shoot such a reactionary bastard

[redstar2000]

Before "good argument" can come into play, there must be an attitude if interest, even receptivity, on the part of the listener.

When people say they "need some good arguments to convince someone", they forget that people mostly convince themselves.

If you're unhappy with your life under capitalism, then you're more likely to be open to alternatives.

But if you think things are "going great", then communist ideas sound "crazy"...no matter how well they're argued.

Moral: try to find people who are at least interested to talk to...and don't waste a lot of time & energy trying to convince people who are hostile.

You've heard that old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing; you waste your time and annoy the pig. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Major. Rudiger]

You've heard that old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing; you waste your time and annoy the pig.


I never heard that before. But its a funny quote.

[apathy maybe]

You shouldn't really be friends with fascists. It makes for bad press.

Simply outline the problems with the present system (how millions of people no matter how hard they work, never "rise to the top"). Then the solutions (abolish the top).

If he thinks that communism is about lazyness, show him things on anarchy in action in Spain. If he thinks only good people rise to the top, ask him why so many thugs lead corporations. Point out the flaws in his arguement, point out the flaws in the system, show the truth, show the alternative.

If you can't convince him, ask yourself if he is really such a good friend. If he is, keep trying.

[Anarchist Freedom]

yeah I have to agree being friends with facists is bad news man... OR are you just calling him a facist because he was being an asshole?

[Essential Insignificance]

First off In a communist society People would do what they want. The individual chooses the prefression he or she desires. so Naturally they're going to choose the job that they themselves wish to do. For example my mother LOVES to garden and does so for no profit. So in communist society she would be in a farming/gardens commune and would give her excess to those who want it. People are lazy when they are forced into a specific work against their wil like Me when Im forced to weed my mothers garden. Savvy?

I hate to become persnickety... but just for clarification.

People won't -- I'm believe -- be able "to do whatever they want" for their entire, socially productive lifes.

But "specialized" professions such as doctors, dentists, paramedics, will properly retain their positions for longer periods of time. But on the other hand, people will have a proper opportunity to fulfill their true potential.

So their regulation will be, I imagine, more constant . As there'll be a lot more of "specialized" individuals.

Society will be constantly regulated -- in order to equal out -- evenly, all of the "ghastly" and "monotonous" jobs, and of course the more "agreeable" jobs.

One mans might "hate" a job, which another "loves".

But think, even the most "mind-numbing" and "indurable" work will become enjoyable activity's... by the "sheer fact" -- that your labor will be directly serving society.. and not same supervisor. :)


And if this "god man" tries to subvert a commune under his rule im sure the local populace would surely shoot such a reactionary bastard

I find it quite complicated to "conceptualize" these kinds of actions post-revolution. Mid-revolution and for some time after revolution, I'd imagine there might be same reactionary deaths.

But after that... it would be unnecessary.

Lets try to remember that were not barbarians!

[Major. Rudiger]

To clarify somethings:
- The guy who im debating for the last two weeks is not a facist (i know, i know) But i just love saying that to him becuase he cant say shit to me, becsuae if he calls me a commie, i just say "thank you" or "so what".

- Yeah i dont hang out with him anymore becuse i turned more into a hippie these past few mouths and he thinks thats stupid. Also he turning into a dick.

- Oh, funny thing too. I draged my teacher into this and his on my side :D. Also every single time he talks about capitalism, he always put my firend in it and he is the one whos being the "bad guy" in the company. one note you sdould understand is that my teacher isnt pro pro communism. he just tells the the bads sides on both of the specturms. But he my teacher dosn't like capitalism.

But yeah i think im winning the arguement with help from my other friends too.
anything else?

[Essential Insignificance]

Oh, funny thing too. I draged my teacher into this and his on my side.

Really?

I found all of my "teachers".... particularly my Modern History "teacher" to have an amazingly superficial understanding of communism and socialism.

Nauseatingly mistaking the former to be the latter.

Does you teacher too, make this gross error?

[Anarchist Freedom]

So did mine except my language arts teacher in the 8th grade she was a socialist I actually have alot to thank her for showing me leftists politics and making me what I am today.

[Vladimir]

Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 26 2005, 02:48 PM
So did mine except my language arts teacher in the 8th grade she was a socialist I actually have alot to thank her for showing me leftists politics and making me what I am today.
A self-proclaimed leftist stoner? Yes, send her a card.

What I suggest you do is study these Courses on Marxism (http://www.oneparty.co.uk/html/marxism/Cl2.html)

That course should give you the knowledge to refute his petty arguments.

[novemba]

Smack him in the face.



















Then tell him your fingers symbolize capitalism.