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Karl Marx's Camel
21st January 2005, 12:11
The coup - A coup d'état, simply a 'coup', is the sudden overthrow of a government, usually done by a small group that replaces the top power figures. It is different from a revolution, which is staged by a larger group and radically changes the political system. The term is French for "a sudden stroke, or blow, of a nation".


Tactically, a coup usually involves control of some active portion of the military while neutralizing the remainder of a country's armed services. This active group captures or expels leaders, seizes physical control of important government offices, means of communication, and the physical infrastructure, such as streets and power plants.


The revolution - A revolution is a relatively sudden and absolutely drastic change. This may be a change in the social or political institutions over a relatively short period of time, or a major change in its culture or economy. Some revolutions are led by the majority of the populace of a nation, others by a small band of revolutionaries.

Political revolutions are often characterised by violence, and the vast changes in power structures that result can often result in further, institutionalised, violence, as in the Russian and French revolutions (with the "Purges" and "the Terror", respectively). A political revolution is the forcible replacement of one set of rulers with another (as happened in France and Russia), while a social revolution is the fundamental change in the social structure of a society, such as the Protestant Reformation or the Renaissance. However, blurring the line between these two categories, most political revolutions have basic philosophical or social underpinnings which drive the revolution. The most common of these underpinnings in the modern world have been liberal revolutions and Communist revolutions. In contrast, a coup d'état often seeks to change nothing more than the current ruler.



Elected - Either elected by the population as a whole, or by various sections of the state.

For example, NSDAP: The party gained control of a majority of seats in the Reichstag through a formal coalition with the DNVP.


Then we have the popular demonstrations, where large numbers of people organize marches and demonstrations against the current government, sometimes including civil disobedience.



Other methods?

seraphim
21st January 2005, 12:27
Insurgency: A rebellion with a tendancy of shadowy actions. In other words an infilitration of a country by peoples unknown generally assisted externally.

h&s
21st January 2005, 12:31
Your definition of insurgency seems to be completely based on the US propaganda concerning the insurgency. The Iraqi insurgency is almost completely made up of normal Iraqis working in groups of about several men.
An insurgency is just a urban form of guerilla warfare, which is an armed revolution that does not necessarily need the support of the people.

Commie Girl
21st January 2005, 16:30
Insurgency-Freedom fighters, the "Resistance"....interesting that when "they" are on "your" side, they are resistance, but when on the other side, they are terrorists!

h&s
21st January 2005, 17:10
True, but that doesn't mean that there aren't terrorists in Iraq - no one here will condone the terrorist car bombings.

Karl Marx's Camel
21st January 2005, 21:47
Insurgency: A rebellion with a tendancy of shadowy actions.

That sounds more like guerilla warfare. Sabotage, attack-retreat methods etc. are invaluable to a guerilla unit.

Besides, from the definitions I've read, insurgency is nothing more than a organized movement aimed at the overthrow of a government through use of subversion and armed conflict.



True, but that doesn't mean that there aren't terrorists in Iraq


Yes, true.

Karl Marx's Camel
21st January 2005, 23:53
It's important to analyze and find the different ways of gaining power. This is fundamental to our cause, so keep 'em replies coming.

praxis1966
22nd January 2005, 02:48
To define insurgency in clinical terms:


Main Entry: in·sur·gen·cy
Pronunciation: -j&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 : the quality or state of being insurgent; specifically : a condition of revolt against a government that is less than an organized revolution and that is not recognized as belligerency
2 : INSURGENCE
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dic...y&va=insurgency (http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=insurgency)

In other words, an insurgency is more random and less organized than an actual revolution. The difference between the two is about 60-40 semantic versus literal. Revolutionaries generally wear uniforms and resemble organized militaries in their hierarchical structure. Insurgents, on the other hand, generally organize themselves into semi-autonomous cells.

Neither of these should be confused with guerrilla warfare, however. Guerrilla warfare is simply a tactic which can be employed by revolutionaries and insurgents alike. Take for example the American Revolution. On the one hand George Washington led a revolutionary army in New England which employed the standard military tactics of the day. On the other, Francis Marion, otherwise known as the Swamp Fox, led an insurrectional force in Virginia which employed guerrilla tactics he had learned from Native Americans during the French-Indian War (known to most Europeans as the Seven Years War).

bolshevik butcher
23rd January 2005, 12:55
I'd always thought an insurgency was like the pre revolution stage, before the masses got on board, so it would be something like a gureilla war?

h&s
23rd January 2005, 19:40
I'd always thought an insurgency was like the pre revolution stage, before the masses got on board, so it would be something like a gureilla war?
A guerilla war is not a revolution - it is a means of coming to power. A guerilla war is controlled by individuals, a revolution is controlled by everyone involved. Genuine working class democracy can only be sucured through working class unity and struggle against their bosses - a general strike.

bolshevik butcher
24th January 2005, 17:43
Originally posted by h&[email protected] 23 2005, 07:40 PM

I'd always thought an insurgency was like the pre revolution stage, before the masses got on board, so it would be something like a gureilla war?
A guerilla war is not a revolution - it is a means of coming to power. A guerilla war is controlled by individuals, a revolution is controlled by everyone involved. Genuine working class democracy can only be sucured through working class unity and struggle against their bosses - a general strike.
ok, I accept what your saying in principal. I've always thought thugh, that this would eb the way of removing the means of prodction form the capitalists and giving it to the workers. After that the conter revolution happens though. There has to be arms involved somewhere to fight the capitalists armies.