Originally posted by
[email protected] 25 2005, 07:39 PM
Er, did I say that? First of all you're asuming I'm opposed to Irish republicanism. That is not true.
You'll have to exuse me. I must have misinterpreted your comments about "the pervasive sectarian front of Irish republicanism".
But in today's world what's really the difference between the ruling ideologies of bourgeois Britain and bourgeois republican Ireland?
What exactly is "bourgeois republican Ireland"? Irish republicanism developed before a native Irish bourgeoisie came into existence, and from the United Irishmen on republicanism has always been very much based in the "men of no proprerty", as the term was used then to desrcibe what is essentially the working class today. Perhaps I'm biased in coming from a working class area, but all of the republicans I've met have been very much working class and very much of a socialist character.
The struggle for socialism should be wrought in both states on non-sectarian lines for the cause of socialism. This is why I really respect The Socialist Party (CWI) in Ireland.
The Socialist Party does nothing but seek petty reforms of the system that they claim credit for whenever a mass campaign develops. There's nothing revolutionary or socialist about them. They're (mostly) a bunch of middle-class tits who look down upon the working class, regardless of creed, and consider themselves their "saviour". The SWP are the exact same here. And the honest truth is that neither of them are doing a thing to unite the divided working class.
The only group to come close to that has been the IRSP, who have been engaging in 'cross-community forums' and the like as a means of presenting themselves and their politics to the Protestasnt working class.
The only reason it got tied up with the nationalist movement was that the Protestant Ascendancy, through the Penal Laws and others such injustices, made the Catholic Church more appealing to the oppressed Irish. The Church used this to make itself seem as though it related to the people
Exactly. That's why I don't believe that the progressive struggle should be based on nationalistic grounds. It's impossible for the movement to divorce itself from sentiments.
Nonsense, republicanism is and always has been an anti-sectarian ideology. Again, perhaps I'm biased, but most Republicans I know are atheist. And even many who are still religious recognise that the Church has always been in the pocket of British imperialism, always ready to decry republicans. Perhaps you should read about the Red Scare in Ireland in the early 1930s.
And the movements seem all too happy to play up to the roles created for them (in a true example of Situationist analysis!). The Loyalists are of course far more latent. And then let's remember that the UDF (is that the original orginisation?) was created to 'defend' people from the IRA.
There's the UVF, UDA, LVF and their various splinter groups.
The original Irish Republicans were mostly Protestant, and hoped to unite "Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter" in a revolution of the people of no property.
Indeed I agree. But antagonism has built up so greatly and roles have been so entrenched by sectarianism that this now is rare.
In some cases that would be true. But there have always been Protestant republicans, and it remains so today. Most republicans don't care what creed their comrades are - it's not like they do a census or anything.
Fine words from a noble struggle. I think Connoly and co would be very much disheartened by all that's done in his name.
I agree with you completely.
My belief is that the sectarian, violant and nationalistic nature of certain and obvious fronts pitted the working classes against each other and alienated so many important and intelligent elements of Irish and of course British society.
The 'Northern Ireland' state was created to foster sectarian division in the working class. That sectarian division will never be broken with any degree of success as long as British imperialism remains.
And of course it's unhealthy for internal reasons as well. Are not the vast majority of the IRSM's martyrs dead at the hands of provos?
Not the Provos, but the Stickies (Official IRA). When the IRSM broke away from the ORM because of the organisation's dictatorial Stalinist nature, the OIRA went on the offensive against the new movement and it was almost wiped out before it got off the ground. At the time, the OIRA had called a ceasefire in relation to the British army, yet they went about attacking republican socialists.
The punishment killings... to their own (as they see it) people...
Though that problem does unfortunately remain, it's being dealt with now. Community groups such as Community Restorative Justice are trying to find new ways to deal with anti-social problems.