Triangulating the war

[HankMorgan]

More from Victor Davis Hanson on Iraq and elections. (http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200501140730.asp)

"There are many constants in all this pessimistic confusion — beside the fact that we are becoming a near hysterical society. First, our miraculous efforts in toppling the Taliban and Saddam have apparently made us forget war is always a litany of mistakes. No conflict is conducted according to either antebellum planning or can proceed with the benefit of hindsight. Iraq was not Yemen or Qatar, but rather the most wicked regime in the world, in the heart of the Arab world, full of oil, terrorists, and mass graves. There were no helpful neighbors to keep a lid on their own infiltrating jihadists. Instead we had to go into the heart of the caliphate, take out a mass murderer, restore civil society after 30 years of brutality, and ward off Sunni and Baathist fomenters in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria — all the while keeping out Iranian-Shiite agents bent on stopping democracy. The wonder is not that there is violence and gloom in Iraq, but that less than two years after Saddam was removed, elections are still on track."

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Actually, Iraq was the only secular regime in the region, and remarkably free of terrorists . . .

As to the elections, sure, they're 'on track' but so are the elections in China. They might run smoothly, but, unfortunately, 'smooth elections' don't necessarily mean democracy in any real sense . . .

[October Revolution]

The elections won't make much difference there will still be terrorists and ordinary people who will oppose the rule of the new state, ther'll still be all the bloodshed. Even if the elections go ahead Iraq will still be inturmoil it is going to take a long time for that country to get sorted out.

[commiecrusader]

It's impossible for elections to be free and fair at the moment anyway. People are intimidated, and there is no guarantee of security wherever they go. The sooner the Iraqi Resistance kick us all out of Iraq the better, providing the Baathist and Shiites can come to some sort of agreement.

[Exploited Class]

This is that tried and true right-wing propaganda claptrap of spin and lies. Say it enough, say it loud and say it together enough and people will believe it.

After not being able to prove what they want to prove, which is Iraq was the center of the 9-11 retaliation on part of the Muslim world, because the connection does not exist; they want to try and bolster support for the illegal invasion of Iraq with countless lies and exaggerations. They want to re-write history on exactly why we illegally went in an became an occupying force.

Imminent threat, imminent threat, WMD in mobile labs, WMD where we know exactly where they are located to the south, north and around Bahgdad. A vile presented to the UN from Collin Powell to show how deadly a small amount of WMD which Iraq had created could do to the US.

But at the UN did we present our case for invasion of Iraq with these statements?

full of oil, terrorists, and mass graves.


we had to go into the heart of the caliphate, take out a mass murderer, restore civil society after 30 years of brutality, and ward off Sunni and Baathist fomenters in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria — all the while keeping out Iranian-Shiite agents bent on stopping democracy.

Is this what was being danced around prior to the US invasion of Iraq? Were these our claims as to why? No, no they were not.

And why did we not bring up Mass Graves at that time? Probably because we would be laughed out of the UN. The world would have asked us, where our concern was 15 years ago when this occurred, where were we when we were parked outside and inside or Iraq during the first Gulf War when slaughters occurred? Where was our actions, our devotion or screams of injustice to the world to help those being killed? We were doing none of these things.

So demonize Iraq now and become justified in doing so, spell out the evils and how we lay justice now, when it benefits us the most. Invade a country and topple its infrastructure making the now worst than the past. Drop bombs on the innocent and feel justified in the murder of children, for supposed links to terrorist organizations that even the 9-11 commission failed to find.

When all your justifications for a war have been proven false, fall back to tactics of talking about mass murder that you did nothing to stop, that you did not plead with the world to allow stopping. Drum up all the things bad and bring up nothing good, to make the taste of murder palatable to your mouth.

And when you make excuses for your ultimate failures in Iraq, explain how hard it is, how nobody else helps, how the world hates your country, that they just hate freedom. Don't speak about a puppet government propped up by a foreign country, of lucrative contracts to US companies suffered only by the US taxpayer nor speak of ties with such companies by an administration wrought with convenient "intelligence failures". Don't speak of 2 years of solid occupation by US of a country and still no ill functioning clean water, unstable healthcare and hospital needs, inadequate electrical and phone services, rampant unemployment, hunger and violence. No, place the blame of failure on people not wanting democracy and outside foreign agents.

Tell the people of the world and US that significant milestones will occur, free elections soon, democracy to a once undemocratic nation ruled by a tyrant, a handover of power prior to the US president election. Then when none of this works or quells the out right fight back of the Iraqi people, downplay the significance, explain away how those were unimportant and finally make more excuses as to your failures.


First, our miraculous efforts in toppling the Taliban and Saddam have apparently made us forget war is always a litany of mistakes.

First, our miraculous efforts of the right wing in toppling over all our mistakes prior to even making an illegal invasion. "Intelligence mistakes", "Diplomatic Mistakes", "Size of Force needed mistakes", "Inadequate protection and armor mistakes", "A Rush to War becomes WMD were an imminent danger Mistakes".


No conflict is conducted according to either antebellum planning or can proceed with the benefit of hindsight.
Past mistakes have occurred in other wars; please excuse our constant and constant mistakes on a daily basis. Apologize for our inadequacies to have done anything right but make a profit while in this war.


Iraq was not Yemen or Qatar, but rather the most wicked regime in the world, in the heart of the Arab world, full of oil, terrorists, and mass graves.
You can not argue that Iraq was not a bad place, so let's just say it enough times to make this invasion feel right. Although there is very little to no proof of terrorists residing in Iraq prior to our invasion, we have now flushed out hundred of thousands of strong willed individuals into becoming terrorists by raping their nation. But in case anybody forget, we now scream of the "Mass Graves" the "Mass Graves" that we hate so very much but did not lift a finger or even ask the world to help prevent. Now let us use it to justify our inabilities and our lack of evidence for our original case for invasion.


Instead we had to go into the heart of the caliphate, take out a mass murderer, restore civil society after 30 years of brutality, and ward off Sunni and Baathist fomenters in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria — all the while keeping out Iranian-Shiite agents bent on stopping democracy.

No wonder they hate us in Iraq, evidently the Citizens of Iraq were not a civil people until we showed up. They are very civil and polite, as 30 or so of them are blown apart on a daily basis, they always say please and thank you. Shiites bent on stopping democracy? Where is the open arms of love we were promised by this administration, was it not us, the opposition that said, "Do not be fooled by their promises of love and acceptance by IRAQ CITIZENS, when we invade their country. They will not stand for what we will force upon them."


The wonder is not that there is violence and gloom in Iraq, but that less than two years after Saddam was removed, elections are still on track."

Elections are on track? Does anybody else feel good when the trains of Italy ran on time for once? Elections that will not be shared by all, will be on track. Iraq will love the fact that many of their citizens will not vote in this open and democratic fiasco, much like Americans would not mind if Texas was not allowed to participate in electing our president. We will have elections on track, damn the consequences of whatever it takes for us to show success in this area.

Already however they are playing down the success of Iraq's soon to be partial election. Victor Davis Hanson, however probably hasn't gotten the Ditto Headed news on that.

[Professor Moneybags]

It's impossible for elections to be free and fair at the moment anyway. People are intimidated, and there is no guarantee of security wherever they go. The sooner the Iraqi Resistance kick us all out of Iraq the better,

I'm sure elections (if they still exist) will be free and fair as soon as a government of Islamic fundamentalists is in place. :rolleyes:

[synthesis]

I'm amazed as to how people still believe that the "fomenters" are foreign agents. The vast majority are Iraqi citizens who have lost friends and relatives to the illegal occupation.


take out a mass murderer

You neo-liberals didn't seem to have a problem supporting him when he was actually doing the mass-murdering back in the 80's :rolleyes:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Victor Davis Hanson
There are many constants in all this pessimistic confusion — beside the fact that we are becoming a near hysterical society.

Hysteria?

I think he means here that substantial numbers of "responsible citizens" have become disillusioned with the Bush regime's imperial mythology.

Not people like us, of course...but "important people". People who write op-ed articles for the New York Times and the Washington Post or who regularly appear on the Sunday morning pundit-vision.

If these people are beginning to defect from the "imperial consensus", things are getting...well, troublesome. The ruling circles of the capitalist class itself pay a lot of attention to the pundits -- insofar as they have an "intellectual dimension", they are it.

Hansen's plea to "accentuate the positive" is not likely to play well with the pundits...or their employers.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb225.gif

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jan 17 2005, 05:50 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Jan 17 2005, 05:50 PM)
Victor Davis Hanson
There are many constants in all this pessimistic confusion — beside the fact that we are becoming a near hysterical society.

Hysteria?

I think he means here that substantial numbers of "responsible citizens" have become disillusioned with the Bush regime's imperial mythology. [/b]
Speaking of hysteria. I don't think this author knows what hysteria is.

Hysteria: See USA 1950s Red Scare, 1960s Cuban Missle Crisis, Post 9-11 hysteria which led to a 15 minute glance of The Patriot Act prior to approving it and attacking and taking over a country that had no connections with 9-11. I think those are hysterical.

It seems to me that the only people that qualify for being hysterical are the right wing/patriotic/easily scared people of the US.

Hysteria would qualify for people living in a town of 1000 in the middle of America worried that they are a terrorist target.