Future Communist Warfare

[USAcommunist]

Communists/socialists internet hackers will use electronic warfare of the future, to disrupt economies, infiltraing military sites, disrupting the stock exchange, attacking a nations power grid, are all future tactics the political left will use to attack capitalisim. Below are a few links on the subject.



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=19653


http://www.securityfocus.com/news/9649

[h&s]

What would be the point? What does the movement actually gain from doing this? More importantly, what does the working class gain from doing this? These kind of actions may gain certain individuals a certain ammount of power, but it does nothing to empower the proletariat. We should not bother with this sort of stuff.
And the stuff about the DPRK having hackers - its almost guarranteed to be made up.

[NovelGentry]

Being what I would consider fairly computer literate, there are better ways to go about doing this. Specifically by changing or tapping into the physical infrastructure, more appropriately what is considered "phreaking." Traditionally it deals strictly with telephone communication systems, however, due to the homogeneous nature of modern telecommunications of all times (computer or phonetic) it's sorta crossed bounds. Anyway, it would seem a far superior tactic, and should be done more to aid the physical attack against said institutions. The computers on wallstreet won't mean a damn thing when a general strike brings production to a halt anyway. Attacks against things like the power grid will mean nothing if we control the power grid, not electronically, but physically as such it should become our goal to control these important parts of the infrastructure, for our own benefit, not attack and disrupt them.

[USAcommunist]

The point is there is no way in hell america will ever accept the real left, the capitalists will hold on to their power forever, communists like myself would love to have a socialist democracy in America but, that is wishful thinking if you don't realize that it's imposible to do either militarily or politically. The only hope the left has to rid america of the capitalist grip on this country is to destroy the country economically first. Once that is done it will be the opportune time for the left to act, politically. If you think capitalists will ever give up their firm economic control of America, your dreaming, you can talk all the politics you want and nothing is going to change. Electronic warfare via hacker attacks to bring this country down economically is the only choise Communists/socialists have to establish a socialist democracy. If you think the subject is a joke than you don't know how concerned the NSA and CIA are worried about it, very worried. The attacks would take months, even years before the desired effect is realized, the attacks would be launched from anywhere in the world that the hackers could find safe haven and finacial support in. This is the only way to bring down the american capitalist goverment. The media, CIA/NSA, will try to disinform you of this threat and the people behind this threat, it is very real and coming from people like myself.

[h&s]

1. It is never impossible to build a leftist movement, regardless of hostility levels.
2. Using these methods may give you the power to overthrow capitalism, but not the right. The mass of the working class are the only people who have the right to do anything, so any overthrow of capitalism has to be run by them - no one else.

[USAcommunist]

WE ARE THE WORKERS. WHAT ARE YOU?

[USAcommunist]

H&S, you were correct about a couple of those links, I took some of the older links off my post. What I want to know is if you think America will ever give up it's 2 party capitalist system of politics?

[NovelGentry]

The only hope the left has to rid america of the capitalist grip on this country is to destroy the country economically first.

Capitalism destroys itself economically. The only hope for the left is to raise the class consciousness and material consciousness of the people, so that we can take it by force before the infrastructure is physically destroyed in a last attempt to save the old system (possibly another world war resulting in far greater losses than anyone could imagine.)


If you think capitalists will ever give up their firm economic control of America, your dreaming, you can talk all the politics you want and nothing is going to change.

I don't expect them to give it up. I expect the working class to take it from them.


Electronic warfare via hacker attacks to bring this country down economically is the only choise Communists/socialists have to establish a socialist democracy.

It is the only choice we have if what we're trying to do is close the internet to the general public. You think the ruling class doesn't control the internet too? Think again. They will shut you out faster here than you could ever dream they would do in the real world.


If you think the subject is a joke than you don't know how concerned the NSA and CIA are worried about it, very worried.

I don't think it's a joke, I think it's unfeasible. Out of curiosity, how much do you or the people who wrote these articles know about computers. Thus far it seems like very little.


The attacks would take months, even years before the desired effect is realized, the attacks would be launched from anywhere in the world that the hackers could find safe haven and finacial support in.

Landlines would be cut, routers shut down, you'd have no way to connect to their side of the system let alone attack it virtually.


The media, CIA/NSA, will try to disinform you of this threat and the people behind this threat, it is very real and coming from people like myself.

Having grown up as a "hacker" and within the "hacker" community, the threat is little more than angst ridden fellows trying to prove their "skillz." This isn't to say the left couldn't organize to give more altruistic goals to these type of electronic disobedience, they already have. There are a number of groups who already do this, the fact is, it's small time, and if it ever got big time, it would easily be shut down.

[USAcommunist]

Novel Gentry, I build computers but, not for a living just a hobby, my knowledge on hacking is limited, my formal education is in Architecture, which, is one of the reasons I hate capitalists, America is a discusting mess from a asthetic point of view, ghettos, trailer courts, shit infastruture ect... I think capitalists in america are much stronger than you think, as I stated before, a left movement in this country will never take this country by military force, money buys a lot of people and weapons, any militant military style action will be shut down imediately, you will never convince enough workers in this nation to take over, the media propaganda and materialistic socialization of americans is much more powerful than the left political truth. There are other electronic contermeasures that don't involve the internet which could/would take place at the same time these attacks take place. Enough of my speculation, I will just wish you luck in your way because it does not matter how it happens , it just MUST happen.

[NovelGentry]

Without workers the state is nothing. We don't need to attack militarily, at least not at first. All we'd need to do is try for general strike and things would start going down hill, better yet, grab control of factories and productive forces. There is one thing a significant amount of the majority of this population holds in common, we are workers -- you won't need much more than this when the time comes. Until then, we educate other workers on the socialist solution through the same means in which we were educated. The trick isn't to slowly build up our force and attack as it builds... it's to build up our force regardless of action, and then watch those who are revolutionary spring into action.

The can't imprison ALL of us, nor can they kill all of us. We are the people who produce the weapons they use to do so, and we are the people who buy the products we ourselves are forced into wage slavery to make, so that we can yet again buy them.

You have it a bit mixed up here. They are powerless against us, not the other way around, but first we need unity, solidarity, and that goal in the sight of the majority. It won't be easy, but it will be possible, even if it doesn't seem as though it will be at this time, and at this time, it certainly is not.

[Commie Rat]

gaining control of arms compaines and stop selling to the us millitary would be an idear


Specifically by changing or tapping into the physical infrastructure, more appropriately what is considered "phreaking."

oi gentry have u heard of a Blotto Box :lol: [ i havent ;) ]

[Debs'atron]

Sounds like a Cyber-Punk pipe dream. Problem with that HAX0RS is that for every pink-o black hat out there, there are two douche bag white hats with cush jobs, and there is no doubt the GOVT. employs a good deal of very skilled white hats. HERES AN IDEA to get some attention. Storm congress with 1,000 unarmed men and women. We don't show any desire to incite violence, we bring a camera and transmit a webcast and we sit inside the capitol building until we get something done. If the govt. uses force, well, nothing like use of force on civilians to piss the people off eh?

[NovelGentry]

Phreaking has grown up a lot from the "box" era. As more telecommunications turn digital, the tools and the means have been changed. Either way, it will consistently be a requirement for any virtual disobedience, because as I said, normal access to those networks would be limited the if people's access posed any significant threat at any time.

[h&s]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 08:50 PM
WE ARE THE WORKERS. WHAT ARE YOU?
You know what I mean - building up a movement away from the main mass of the workers or telling them what to do separates you from them.


H&S, you were correct about a couple of those links, I took some of the older links off my post. What I want to know is if you think America will ever give up it's 2 party capitalist system of politics?

America will never give up the 2 party system, so we must force them to do so by revolution - no ammount of hacking will ever do that. Also if you hack the economy to pieces are the workers really going to support your ideas? No - they will hate you for losing them their jobs.
NovelGentry really has the idea of revolution sorted - hacking is so useless compared to the ideas he has stated.

[(R)evolution of the mind]

There is a place for haxx0ring. Working communications are essential to the revolution, and therefore it must be made sure that the counterrevolutionaries can't just disable communications networks remotely. Systems should be cracked to disable all backdoors and so on. Taking into control a communications satellite that they can't quickly go turn off even physically would be extremely useful.

[the_godless_communist]

Storm congress with 1,000 unarmed men and women. We don't show any desire to incite violence, we bring a camera and transmit a webcast and we sit inside the capitol building until we get something done. If the govt. uses force, well, nothing like use of force on civilians to piss the people off eh?
I like the sound of that. Of course you are messing with the Bush administration the ultimate Fascist Capitalists. You have to contend with Karl Rove's eavil schemes.

[encephalon]

hacking serves a purpose, but it shouldn't be used to disable the economy. That would be foolish, and work against revolution. The economy will falter on its own.

hacking (and phreaking) can be used to balance power. To increase communication between revolutionaries while decreasing communications of the establishment; to know just as much about the counter-revolutionaries as they know about they revolutionaries; to selectively disable security systems in order to gain physical access of that which they protect. Hacking can be a means towards succesful revolution, but not an end.

Besides, let's face it: most hacking is relatively simple. The simpler, in fact, is usually the most effective. It has much more to do with social manipulation than coding. Kevin Mitnick (the bastard) would be a prime example of this.

What is more important right now is the battlefield of ideas. If revolutionary thought is unable to spread beyond a select few, then revolution is not possible..

[DUNKiNUTS]

hacking is a media way out. Its weak. If you want something done or and shift in something you need paper work and people. the internet is to unstable to hold and value anymore, well ever. For a revolution, you need paper in a capitalist country (i.e. law/bills/money/etc.).

[encephalon]

the internet is to unstable to hold and value anymore, well ever. For a revolution, you need paper in a capitalist country (i.e. law/bills/money/etc.)

I disagree. The internet, at the very least, allows revolutionionaries to become a cohesive force. It makes it much more difficult for the establishment to pursue a "divide and conquer" method in destroying opposition. Communication is the key to revolution. The form of communication most versatile to inner communication is in fact the internet.